I grew up playing non handicapped tourneys and it made me a much better player, personally I have no desire to beat someone using a handicap, I want to beat the best because I am better on that day not due to a handicap.
Advice for all you complaining up and comers.
- Thread starter crawfish
- Start date
As a new pool player I have already learned that you don't get better by playing people who are worse then you. I am a beginner (whatever the lowest rank is I am lower than that I can almost promise you) but I learned growing up that you have to work and practice to get better at anything you do. Pool is no different. I have had my own table for 3 years now and just last year started practicing probably 7 hours a week on average. 10 years ago when I was messing around playing pool I would play a friend who use to win a lot of tournaments around Orlando. He kicked my butt every time we played. Usually he would break and run out playing 8 ball. Well after spending about 6 months practicing 7 hours a week I got the opportunity to play him again during Christmas. He beat me all three games but this time he would sink the 8 I only had 1 ball on the table or we were both going for the 8! That made me a lot more hungry. Next Christmas I will beat him! And it will be because I spent time on the table practicing. And of course reading AZB!
I feel your pain, crawfish. The current batch of guys we get in our weekly tournaments is a really good one, actually, but I am all too familiar with having to put up with the whining and complaining of guys who: a) never truly work on their games, b) won't bet two cents with the bulletproof nuts, and c) only want to play players who play worse than they do so they can boost their egos. Then they come in to a tournament, getting games on the wire from the guys who actually do work on their games and have paid their dues, and they b*tch constantly about who's ranked what, or who beat who that shouldn't have, or even a $10 or $20 entry fee for Christ's sake! It's like "Dude, man the f*ck up and just play pool! If you lose, go practice or get some lessons. It ain't rocket science." What's really bad is that it's generally been my experience that the older players are worse about this that the young, upcoming players are.
I get especially frustrated when someone approaches me and says "How can that guy over there be a 4? He just kicked a ball in and ran out on me!" At times I've truly felt like I was in a daycare, except with a bunch of kids who are like 50+ years old. The worst of them have no concept of what really great pool is, so they cling to stories about some dude who made a one-in-a-thousand shot on them 32 years ago, which in their mind elevates this guy (who nobody's ever heard of, BTW) to Mosconi-esque status. And then of course you have to hear this crap when you beat one of them; "Oh, you play pretty good, but you shoulda seen old Joe Blow play. One time I seen him make this shot..." What's worse is that this stuff puts a mindf*ck on the young upcoming players who, because of what some old dude who's been a C player for 40 years said, think that playing great pool is just about making the occasional God shot that people will talk about for years to come. So then they come to me for advice, and I have to break it to them that playing great pool is not about how many great shots you hit, it's about how few poor ones you hit, and what it really boils down to is a whole lot of really, really hard work, and probably lessons, to achieve great consistency.
I must say that NoBull9 is right, though. Most places have to do things to entice people who don't really take the game seriously to play in their events. Occasionally you do get the new player who is really working hard on their game, but needs a bit of a handicap to be competitive, and I have no problem with that. Actually, I can put up with just about anything as long as we get a steady crowd through the door on tournament night. Without the handicap, we'd probably get about 6 guys to play in our tournament each week instead of the 15 to 25 we currently get.
Aaron
I get especially frustrated when someone approaches me and says "How can that guy over there be a 4? He just kicked a ball in and ran out on me!" At times I've truly felt like I was in a daycare, except with a bunch of kids who are like 50+ years old. The worst of them have no concept of what really great pool is, so they cling to stories about some dude who made a one-in-a-thousand shot on them 32 years ago, which in their mind elevates this guy (who nobody's ever heard of, BTW) to Mosconi-esque status. And then of course you have to hear this crap when you beat one of them; "Oh, you play pretty good, but you shoulda seen old Joe Blow play. One time I seen him make this shot..." What's worse is that this stuff puts a mindf*ck on the young upcoming players who, because of what some old dude who's been a C player for 40 years said, think that playing great pool is just about making the occasional God shot that people will talk about for years to come. So then they come to me for advice, and I have to break it to them that playing great pool is not about how many great shots you hit, it's about how few poor ones you hit, and what it really boils down to is a whole lot of really, really hard work, and probably lessons, to achieve great consistency.
I must say that NoBull9 is right, though. Most places have to do things to entice people who don't really take the game seriously to play in their events. Occasionally you do get the new player who is really working hard on their game, but needs a bit of a handicap to be competitive, and I have no problem with that. Actually, I can put up with just about anything as long as we get a steady crowd through the door on tournament night. Without the handicap, we'd probably get about 6 guys to play in our tournament each week instead of the 15 to 25 we currently get.
Aaron
Last edited:
Two sides to every coin.
If the same pool players show up to a heads up tournament every week and win, just by showing up, pretty soon the field will thin out quick. When people find they have no chance of winning on a good day.
So, they have a handicap. The handicap is never perfect, and always open to controversy.
Worse, it often pushed the better players out of the tournament, or leagues. I've seen our APA SL9 in 9-ball seem to shoot six or seven balls in at a clip, on average, only to lose a massive split to a SL5 who had to make half the amount of balls he did. Not to mention that the SL9 forced us to shoot SLs ones, twos, and threes every night.
If the same pool players show up to a heads up tournament every week and win, just by showing up, pretty soon the field will thin out quick. When people find they have no chance of winning on a good day.
So, they have a handicap. The handicap is never perfect, and always open to controversy.
Worse, it often pushed the better players out of the tournament, or leagues. I've seen our APA SL9 in 9-ball seem to shoot six or seven balls in at a clip, on average, only to lose a massive split to a SL5 who had to make half the amount of balls he did. Not to mention that the SL9 forced us to shoot SLs ones, twos, and threes every night.
There is no such thing. I've played quite a few times in a tourney where there were only 3 handicaps - 3, 4, and two guys who were deemed 5s. A 3 has never been in the money that I know of, and the two fives hardly ever don't cash (only 16 player field - top 3 pay). After sending one 5 to the loser's side, and send the other home (to get to the 3rd, 4th match-up on the loser's side); the 2nd 5 wouldn't shake my hand....I played well, he didn't, but he thought that meant I should be a 5 as well. If someone who's rated one game below another can't win without the higher ranked player calling foul...what's the handicap system supposed to do? I thought it was to make the playing field more even. He was ticked cuz he didn't end up getting his drinks paid for for the night (like he usually does, EVERY week).
Last edited:
I'm in...
I totally agree, here's the only rating system that works...NONE! Come on down, pay your money just like everyone else and lets see who wins. If your lookin' for a handout then go back to the practice table and quote some BS lines from The Color of Money!
When your heart gets bigger than a mustard seed, come back and play some!
Weight and handicapped tournaments are for chicken$h!ts!
I totally agree, here's the only rating system that works...NONE! Come on down, pay your money just like everyone else and lets see who wins. If your lookin' for a handout then go back to the practice table and quote some BS lines from The Color of Money!
When your heart gets bigger than a mustard seed, come back and play some!
Weight and handicapped tournaments are for chicken$h!ts!
^^^^^^^
I know someone like that. Everytime he's in a handicapped tournament and loses to a lower ranked player he complains bitterly about what a BS system this is and so on.
The fact is, if your opponent is sitting, they can't win.
I know someone like that. Everytime he's in a handicapped tournament and loses to a lower ranked player he complains bitterly about what a BS system this is and so on.
The fact is, if your opponent is sitting, they can't win.
Amen brother Crawfish can I get a witness.
The only hadicapp I every somewhat condoned. Was a weekly local tourney I played in years ago. If you win 1st you got money in hand but for 1 month you played an extra game on all your races. If you won again then up another game. Eventually the "whirl beater" would hit his limit and balance out and the other good players would have a chance to win.
This way the low players weren't favored everyone was straight up unless you had cashed only people that cashed were ever raised.
Seemed fairest way to spead the money among the better players where it belonged.
The only hadicapp I every somewhat condoned. Was a weekly local tourney I played in years ago. If you win 1st you got money in hand but for 1 month you played an extra game on all your races. If you won again then up another game. Eventually the "whirl beater" would hit his limit and balance out and the other good players would have a chance to win.
This way the low players weren't favored everyone was straight up unless you had cashed only people that cashed were ever raised.
Seemed fairest way to spead the money among the better players where it belonged.
I don't look for handouts...I certainly don't quote lines from The Color of Money - Dumb and Dumber sure, Wayne's World from back in the day - yep, but no POOL movies...Caddy Shack - uh, quite often..lol I have enough "heart" for everyone at this tourney, and finally - weighted and handicapped tournaments are for some of us who have no other choice if we want to play in a weekly tourney
Not to change the subject really, but education now fits in here, too. And, to stay on topic, I've played in a lot of handicapped tournaments over the last several years. When they raised mine I was happy! It meant I was playing better and I expected to have tougher games from then on.
Last edited:
My point exactly. Pisses me off for someone to get 3rd-4th every single week so as not to go up in ranks. Say, if you get first or second, you must move up. But they could.....just don't.
Party On trustyrusty... 
That wasn't targeted at you personally, it was targeted towards those in this world who continue to cry to owners and tournament directors until they get what they want...a nice fat spot from those who have worked harder to improve their games. I feel for ya if all you have available is handicapped tournaments man! That used to be the case in my area until they all dried up. IMO it's just another way of maintaining the "status quo". Who would possibly want to improve when they can continue to get weight from the superior players? Some do, but unfortunately too many of those participating never want to achieve anything more with their game than they have currently and they will participate only if receiving such handicaps. What they don't realize is that by accepting handicaps they are only hurting themselves in the long run.
My suggestion to you and others that hate the handicap systems in your area..Start your own tournament without the handicaps! I did and it's the only one running in my area now, with the exception of the little race to 2 and 3 barbox touneys at the bars. I get anywhere from 16 to 49 players depending on the situation and we haven't had anybody cryin' about spots. Change can only start if we're willing to put forth the effort ourselves.
Happy Shooting folks! :thumbup:
P.S. I sing one hell-of-a rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody man!
I don't look for handouts...I certainly don't quote lines from The Color of Money - Dumb and Dumber sure, Wayne's World from back in the day - yep, but no POOL movies...Caddy Shack - uh, quite often..lol I have enough "heart" for everyone at this tourney, and finally - weighted and handicapped tournaments are for some of us who have no other choice if we want to play in a weekly tourney
That wasn't targeted at you personally, it was targeted towards those in this world who continue to cry to owners and tournament directors until they get what they want...a nice fat spot from those who have worked harder to improve their games. I feel for ya if all you have available is handicapped tournaments man! That used to be the case in my area until they all dried up. IMO it's just another way of maintaining the "status quo". Who would possibly want to improve when they can continue to get weight from the superior players? Some do, but unfortunately too many of those participating never want to achieve anything more with their game than they have currently and they will participate only if receiving such handicaps. What they don't realize is that by accepting handicaps they are only hurting themselves in the long run.
My suggestion to you and others that hate the handicap systems in your area..Start your own tournament without the handicaps! I did and it's the only one running in my area now, with the exception of the little race to 2 and 3 barbox touneys at the bars. I get anywhere from 16 to 49 players depending on the situation and we haven't had anybody cryin' about spots. Change can only start if we're willing to put forth the effort ourselves.
Happy Shooting folks! :thumbup:
P.S. I sing one hell-of-a rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody man!
Yo Craw you got a youngbuck with the initials CV you are bringin up as part of the new generation. Hell I'm gonna have to count myself as new school, 26 years on earth isnt that long. I know a lot, I've been a lot of places, and have invited tough action or too tough action more times than I should have. That's no secret.
What I will say in defense of the new school players is this. Pool is only a hobby to most of them. They are coming up not seeing the things I saw. Hell I went to hit balls a few years ago and I see guys betting thousands. Pool gets real then cuz you say to yourself, hey if I can get really good I can make some good money and do some of the things I want to in life. Whether or not we all reach those levels is irrelavent, yeah part of the drive has to be the love of the game but lemme tell ya if you could get big time action playing Mario Brothers we'd all still have a Nintendo from 1985 and be playing that.
Unfortunately the young kids just see pool as a video game, a thing to do instead of homework.
The other thing the young guys dont have is a mentor type of person to show them the ropes. Someone to tell them hey I think you are ready to try that game. The person who will let them take their beatings but also look out for them when they need it. I mean hell I always had someone to table wrap my ass for 25 a game whenever I thought my game was something it wasn't. All these guys are learning pool on the fly. It's like going to elementary school with no teachers, how the hell do you expect to honestly get promoted. Sure the natural talent kids and the overachievers will make it, but thats about it.
The last thing the younger guys dont have is peer competition. If you dont have a good group of people that play about the same speed to play with you inevitably wont push to get better. If you always get crushed you will lose interest. If it's too easy to win you will lose interest. If you only learn how to beat spots youll never get good enough to give one.
It's a rough life for the young guys man ;-)
What I will say in defense of the new school players is this. Pool is only a hobby to most of them. They are coming up not seeing the things I saw. Hell I went to hit balls a few years ago and I see guys betting thousands. Pool gets real then cuz you say to yourself, hey if I can get really good I can make some good money and do some of the things I want to in life. Whether or not we all reach those levels is irrelavent, yeah part of the drive has to be the love of the game but lemme tell ya if you could get big time action playing Mario Brothers we'd all still have a Nintendo from 1985 and be playing that.
Unfortunately the young kids just see pool as a video game, a thing to do instead of homework.
The other thing the young guys dont have is a mentor type of person to show them the ropes. Someone to tell them hey I think you are ready to try that game. The person who will let them take their beatings but also look out for them when they need it. I mean hell I always had someone to table wrap my ass for 25 a game whenever I thought my game was something it wasn't. All these guys are learning pool on the fly. It's like going to elementary school with no teachers, how the hell do you expect to honestly get promoted. Sure the natural talent kids and the overachievers will make it, but thats about it.
The last thing the younger guys dont have is peer competition. If you dont have a good group of people that play about the same speed to play with you inevitably wont push to get better. If you always get crushed you will lose interest. If it's too easy to win you will lose interest. If you only learn how to beat spots youll never get good enough to give one.
It's a rough life for the young guys man ;-)
I use to have a issue with handicapp tourney, still kinda do, but I look at them in a different light.
First, in a real tourney, where the races are longer, they can't beat me. Sometime, the lower rank person wins based on rolls, they get the goods ones and I get the bad ones. I can tell a lucky roll and it bugs me when they act as if it was planned. Rolls balances out in longer races.
Second, I have to be sure why I'm playing. It's not for the win/loss column of games I have played, but the beauty of playing a well thought out run.
Here, too, there are no non handicapp tourneys. So I play for the shot, not the win.
Nick Varner once said that the way to win a tourney is one shot at a time.
First, in a real tourney, where the races are longer, they can't beat me. Sometime, the lower rank person wins based on rolls, they get the goods ones and I get the bad ones. I can tell a lucky roll and it bugs me when they act as if it was planned. Rolls balances out in longer races.
Second, I have to be sure why I'm playing. It's not for the win/loss column of games I have played, but the beauty of playing a well thought out run.
Here, too, there are no non handicapp tourneys. So I play for the shot, not the win.
Nick Varner once said that the way to win a tourney is one shot at a time.
Well, honestly... everyone wants to win. Thats why we all play. The better players will win and the lesser players will either complain or get better. Taking or giving a spot is just a part of the game. Either in a tournament, gambling, league.. whatever. If I beat a good player with a spot, did I really beat him? Regardless of who has the money, its hard to feel good about a win when you are getting a spot. At least, it is to me. For something cheap, I would rather play even or maybe a small spot depending on the player.