Last night at the bar

Rob_jerrylee

Rob_jerrylee

Bustamante's # 1 fan
Silver Member
Just need some input from you guys on what to do , last night I was at my local bar shooting and was playing another guy that i know and he started telling me that almost everything that I do is wrong .

Now when I do my Preshot preshot routine of course I look at everything on the table and Chalk up and get in my stance and when I'm aiming at the cue ball I always spot low don't ask me why it's just my routine and I was woundering if anyone else does this , to me it's hows I Find my target point on a Object ball and then hit it .

Then the next thing he started to tell me is my Break is to hard that that I should not use draw on the break which I don't , I use a half a tip below center , and also he when on this 10 minute rant about how all the pro's never break as hard and that they always do a Soft break , so I thought about this for a second and said ok why are we talking about Pro players right now so he tried to get me to soften my break up and it didn't work for me at all .

Then I talk to some of are top Players that Come in to the Bar and told them all this and they said that he shouldn't be giving out any instrustions because he will tell you what you should do but he doesn't do what he's telling you at all and they said you have to take everything in and take the good info from the bad .

I felt like i was on egg shells when playing him but as the night went on I went to my style that I feel comfortable with and played like an ace .
 
Rob_jerrylee said:
Just need some input from you guys on what to do , last night I was at my local bar shooting and was playing another guy that i know and he started telling me that almost everything that I do is wrong .

Now when I do my Preshot preshot routine of course I look at everything on the table and Chalk up and get in my stance and when I'm aiming at the cue ball I always spot low don't ask me why it's just my routine and I was woundering if anyone else does this , to me it's hows I Find my target point on a Object ball and then hit it .

Then the next thing he started to tell me is my Break is to hard that that I should not use draw on the break which I don't , I use a half a tip below center , and also he when on this 10 minute rant about how all the pro's never break as hard and that they always do a Soft break , so I thought about this for a second and said ok why are we talking about Pro players right now so he tried to get me to soften my break up and it didn't work for me at all .

Then I talk to some of are top Players that Come in to the Bar and told them all this and they said that he shouldn't be giving out any instrustions because he will tell you what you should do but he doesn't do what he's telling you at all and they said you have to take everything in and take the good info from the bad .

I felt like i was on egg shells when playing him but as the night went on I went to my style that I feel comfortable with and played like an ace .
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Tell him you are mimmicking Efren's little cousin Alto's stroke. Then, offer him the eight, and stick him up. There is NO stroke that works for everyone. Everyone has small variations.
 
Rob, politely ask him to STFU :D

One of the best answers I have heard and seemed to use with results:

"Thanks for trying to help - I have someone working with me on a few things right now and I'm gonna focus on those changes for now."

It typically doesn't offend and they let it go after that....works on the golf course too...fyi...

Jason
 
Fogetaboutit!

Gamble with him...take his dough...and if all else fails...SHOOT HIM IN THE FACE! Advice that isn't asked for is usually never taken seriously or respected so take his with a grain of salt and continue to solidify your own game. Saying "everything" you do is "wrong" is WRONG and if he were a true instructor of the cueing arts he'd know better.

No worries though, I'm glad you shot your game and played well last night! Way to hit 'em! :thumbup:
 
depending on the situation and your relationship

--I appreciate your desire to help but there are some things I'm working on right now and I would prefer to concentrate on those. (if asked what, tell him you'll be happy to show him when you have them mastered.)

--Thank you for offering the lessons, but I really wanted to relax and hang out tonight.

--You work on your game, I'll work on mine.

--Tell your girlfriend, not me.

--Hey. Don't even try to get in my head. You want me in yours?

--Okay. Let's put my way against your way-- mum, for money.

It really depends on how well you like and respect the guy, how old he is...
 
Wow I didn't think Hal Houle made it out any more ;P

Take all advice! Any that you can. There is a good chance that there is a nugget of gold in that hill of dirt. If you shut someone up before they give it too you then you will have lost it. Ignore the stuff that doesn't work for you and be thankful for the insight that does.

Gambling with them will prove nothing. David Leadbetter was never at the top of the money list but there is a reason that they built multi-million dollar golf course and academy in his name in Orlando. Just because they teach well does not mean they play well.

Now if the situation does not warrent teaching, as in a bystander during a match offering advice or an opponent offering tidbits during a match, I would kindly say "I am sorry this isn't the time to do this, if after the match you would like to point out a few things that I may not be aware of we can talk then." Either way get the input!

JV
 
nope.

I can't agree with "Take all advice." It sounds good, and of course we all desperately want to learn and get better, but really. It's a mental game and you don't want every yahoo's opinionated crap slushing about in your concentration.

I know the OP is a guy, but I'm coming from a woman's perspective.You wouldn't believe how many guys try and tell us how to play- most of whom can't even play themselves. I'm tired of the dumb advice and I'm tired of the stupid, totally amazed "nice shot" every time I make a straight in ball.

In my poolrooms here, I have found that the people least willing to offer pool advice and thoughts are actually the most qualified to give the best pointers and drills.

Finally, I'm not letting just anybody in my head or in my game- these are sacred places and they have to be protected, whether the other guy is trying to help me or is trying to shark me.
 
Take any one of the polite responses listed

Rob_jerrylee said:
I have Respect for him as a person. He's 34
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Personally, if you have a friend that plays a lot better than he does, I think you should just say he's helping you with a few things. If he gets to you too much, don't play against him. Some people like to help, but actually, they create problems. Good luck.
 
satman said:
Personally, if you have a friend that plays a lot better than he does, I think you should just say he's helping you with a few things. If he gets to you too much, don't play against him. Some people like to help, but actually, they create problems. Good luck.
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thanks I will .

It's just nerve racking somethings I think that happens to all of us at one point or another .
 
blah blah said:
I can't agree with "Take all advice." I'm coming from a woman's perspective.You wouldn't believe how many guys try and tell us how to play- most of whom can't even play themselves.
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Uhhh, yea... I am a guy and unlike most men in a pool hall, not looking to get some. If I offer advice it is because I thought that it might help. But before I offer I ask if they mind if I point something out.

If someone tells me "hey did you know that you have a chicken wing when you stroke?" I will let them that I do it without knowing and have tried several times to correct it without success. But if someone says "did you know that you can hit that three railer with an easy point system" I am all ears. If someone talks to me in a match I usually just smile and not answer. (unless it is for fun or practice)

JV
 
I worked as a engineer and learned that you have to sift the sh!t from the sand. There are plenty of people always wanting to give advice and many have good intentions but after a while you learn to ignore some. If I was listening to a machine operator I usually got good input, if it was a salesperson it was bias with personal motives.

Be open minded, follow your instincts and consider the source and their motives.
 
blah blah said:
I can't agree with "Take all advice." It sounds good, and of course we all desperately want to learn and get better, but really. It's a mental game and you don't want every yahoo's opinionated crap slushing about in your concentration.

I know the OP is a guy, but I'm coming from a woman's perspective.You wouldn't believe how many guys try and tell us how to play- most of whom can't even play themselves. I'm tired of the dumb advice and I'm tired of the stupid, totally amazed "nice shot" every time I make a straight in ball.

In my poolrooms here, I have found that the people least willing to offer pool advice and thoughts are actually the most qualified to give the best pointers and drills.

Finally, I'm not letting just anybody in my head or in my game- these are sacred places and they have to be protected, whether the other guy is trying to help me or is trying to shark me.
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I think a better way to put it then, is be open to any advice. You need to develop a filter so you can toss aside the bad information, and the more you know about the game the easier it is to do that.

The problem is I've seen too many amateurs insist their mechanics or whatever they are doing is fine when offered sound advice. Then they wonder why they don't improve year after year. Or if they do any improvements are so miniscule that no one else would notice.

That said, I will agree that these nuggets of info rarely come from bar players or dudes who are looking to pick up.

Rob_jerrylee, just thank him for the info and tell him that you don't want to be trying new things while you are involved in a game.
 
Just a little FYI....

take it or leave it.

If you're playing for fun with a freind or a freindly acquaintance. The view from OFF the table can be drastically different than the one from your minds eye while playing. In that situation some well intentioned observations can make a world of difference to your game, IF the person giving them to you has a good knowledge of the game.

If you're looking to improve.... those outside observations can be the best, AND the CHEAPEST lessons you can get. Different perspectives clashing or observations are how we learn. Weigh them, and choose how you value them. I may offer advice to someone on the view from the chair, IF I care about them or helping them.... if I don't .... I won't.

Also.... getting your back up in this kind of circumstance and wanting to gamble to show who's better, may just lose you the free lesson. I can guarantee that there is a HUGE amount of knowledge out there hidden in a lot of peoples minds and once in a while they may want to share a piece with you..... make sure (if that's the case) you don't shut them down. JMSHO.........

On the other hand.... there's a lot of BS too!!! :p Move forward on a 'case by case' basis. :wink: That's MY advice!! Do with it what you wish.

td
 
Unsolicited advise in the pool hall, even with good intentions, is almost always not welcome.
 
Thanks your everyone's imput .

I took in his advise and thought about it and well it's not going to help my game at all .

See one of this issues was with my break because I spot low on it and break hard about 70% he told me to just hit center ball and slow it down , well when I did that I lost complete control over the Cue ball

See that's the things in this game you can get alot of information and some of it is good but there is alot of it that is just complete BS and that doesn't make sense , and I know that I can count on you guy/girls here on AZ .

So thanks again to you all .
 
Rob_jerrylee--
What really made my knee jerk was in the first paragraph you said "he started telling me that almost everything that I do is wrong " and then in the last, "I felt like i was on egg shells when playing him."

Also, the guy was all up in your break and your preshot routine (rather than, as someone else suggested for legit advice, how to go three rails for shape). Those things made me think of one of the oldest moves in the book- when you ask your opponent, "What do you look at last when you shoot- the ob or the cb?" and thereby get them off their game completely while they wonder and think about that instead of making the ball and getting shape.

I feel that if his intention was to truly help (rather than to get into your head and your game) he shouldn't ever make you feel like that. A good teacher won't do that to you- he'll watch and listen as well as he speaks and demonstrates. If you do want pool advice, I would say that you should choose your sources and seek him/them out carefully and humbly, rather than let just anybody tell you anything and then sift it out on your own.

Pool really is mental, and we should pay more attention to what we put into our heads. You know, the whole "think critically and analyze sources" thing from school.

Lastly, Johnny "V":
So okay, I admit I may well be a bit naive, but I honestly don't think the reason so many men give unsolicited advice to women (esp during tourneys) is that they want to "get some."

I believe the main reason men give advice is to assert dominence and stake out their desired domain of being the "more informed and better player." I think it's a power trip...
 
What works for you?

Rob_jerrylee,
Pool is like a merry-go-round, you'll go round-n-round LQQKing for whatever works, well what doesn't work today, may work tomorrow or next week.

That guy's advice about the break you were referring too may not be all that Lame, hitting the cue ball dead center and the head ball center as well is a very good break, you gotta "Stroke the Break Shot" as you would any other shot on the table, the most important shot you'll ever have in pool, The Break!........

are you stroking your break shot? or are you doing the punch break shot?, which is no stroke at all, and in turn cause's no control over whitey, and none to few balls being made on the break.

Everything changes everyday, the humidity in the air, dew point, slow cloth , fast cloth, heavy cue ball, light cue ball, loud music, soft music, railbirds( that don't have a clue),your emotions, a whole lotta things changes from day to day.

Even the Pro's search for whats working for them from day to day, cause if they had it working all the time, they would all break and run 50 racks of 9-ball and have a 500 point inning in straight pool. Some just Attain a level of Excellence longer than others, due to Pure Talent and Self-Dicsipline.

Most everyone has Some sound advice to give, you just gotta Weed Out the Good from the Bad.

I've found out that a knowledgeable pool minded person watching from the sidelines can pick up on your good and bad habits and may offer some sound advice from time to time, and I welcome it.

Alot of times I'll back off the table 6 or 8 feet and get a whole different picture of the table lay-out, as opposed to being hunkered over the table when in doubt of the next play.

Pool is a game that takes Most, years and years to perfect, the gifted not that long.

Well I've raved on long enough, hope you can pick out something of all this that will work for you!


David Harcrow
 
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It's a courtesy thing. He's showing a lack of ettiquete. I believe Bob Byrne talks about this in one of his books.

As a general rule, you do not give advice unless it is asked for.

What is he getting out of telling you all of these things? I seriously doubt he's trying to be the patron saint of pool.

When someone, especially a stranger, starts giving me unrequested advice, I generally will throw it back on them by giving them all sorts of unrequested advice and I make it a point to be absolutely wrong about what I say.

I intentionally go waaay overboard and start talking about stupid crap that obviously doesn't make any damn sense.

Usually that shuts him up. Might as well have fun with it.
 
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