buying blanks

Along the same lines Steve, how would you react if a beautiful cue of yours was actually NOT designed by the maker?
The maker hired a CNC genius. The cnc genius drew it ( the whole cue ) on cad then got all the g-codes from his cam software.
Maker makes the cue though.
 
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hey

Along the same lines Steve, how would you react if a beautiful cue of yours was actually NOT designed by the maker?
The maker hired a CNC genius. The cnc genius drew it ( the whole cue ) on cad then got all the g-codes from his cam software.
Maker makes the cue though.



Great question.......If the cuemaker made the entire cue in his shop, it wouldnt bother me a bit. As a matter of fact I totally wouldnt care as to where he got the design, as long as it wasnt copying another cuemakers design completely.

There are guys right now as we speak, buying almost the entire cue in parts and putting it together and signing it and selling it..........i HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL......AS LONG AS THEY TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE GETTING.


steve
 
there exists an azb poster "skins" that does the cnc design work for josey cues, or at least has in the past.
he's open about it, and customers arent kept in the dark.
and the makers that know something about utilizing cnc software, would have varying degrees of knowledge, with most probably still being on a learning curve.

i think more pubic knowledge of different aspects of cue making would benefit both makers and buyers.
too much on the makers side is not openly disclosed to the buying public.
examples would be;
updated waiting lists,
production numbers including types,
finished content procured elswhere,
contributing labor on the finished product not being credited . . .

doesnt inspire confidence in buyers when they are left in the dark on variables that affect value, both real and perceived.
 
i think more pubic knowledge of different aspects of cue making would benefit both makers and buyers.
too much on the makers side is not openly disclosed to the buying public.
examples would be;
updated waiting lists,
production numbers including types,
finished content procured elswhere,
contributing labor on the finished product not being credited . . .

.

lol... Go ahead fellow cue makers. Respond to this one. 15 years ago this conversation never would have taken place. That is does now does not boarder on rude it far surpasses it.
 
if a cue builder is icorporating outside componets such as forearms and butts . then if you ask him if he does, he is suppose to say yes. but he is not required to tell you his suppliers. if you ask him to build you a cue, and you wish to incorporate someone elses forearm , he should be willing to talk about it. the builder might do everything in house and is not willing to use outside componets. it might cramp their style.

bill
 
Isnt this what the entire forum is about......"POOL THINGS" lol
Steve
The AZ forum in general is about POOL THINGS. But this paticular forum is called, "Ask The Cuemaker".
I have no problem with you asking the questions you asked. But most often when someone brings up a controversial issue it usually turns into a "Bash the Cuemakers" or "Let's Teach the Cuemakers" forum. I have no problems with any cuemaker that I know of. I just wish questions would be asked and the Cuemakers would answer, instead of the non-cuemakers jumping in and trying to teach the cuemakers.
I have no problem with your questions, but having seen this subject brought up before and seeing how nasty it has gotten in the past, I felt I should have stayed out of it for my last few posts. I could make several more points about the negatives in giving your sources away to potential customers, but then I would just have to be taught the correct way to run a custom cue shop by non-cuemakers.
All I ask is to let this forum be a true "Ask the Cuemaker" forum and not a "Teach the Cuemaker" forum. You started the thread and have a right to ask all the question you see fit. But I really don't feel that the other non-cuemakers should jump in with answers. They should be free to ask questions also, but not teach the cuemakers and non-cuemakers anything. This forum is for the cuemakers to answer the questions.
But I did take the bait and ask some questions of non-cuemakers and I do feel I owe all here an apology for that. I should not have violated the intentions of this thread by asking the non-cuemakers questions, which only served to continue the argument.
You are an asset to the pool world and certainly have good taste in pool cues as the pictures of your cue collection shows. So I encourage you to continue asking whatever questions you want, and I hope to provide honest answers without getting into debates with the other non-cuemakers who post. I once again apologize if my negative comments to the non-cuemakers took away from the quality of this thread.
 
there exists an azb poster "skins" that does the cnc design work for josey cues, or at least has in the past.
he's open about it, and customers arent kept in the dark.
and the makers that know something about utilizing cnc software, would have varying degrees of knowledge, with most probably still being on a learning curve.

i think more pubic knowledge of different aspects of cue making would benefit both makers and buyers.
too much on the makers side is not openly disclosed to the buying public.
examples would be;
updated waiting lists,
production numbers including types,
finished content procured elsewhere,
contributing labor on the finished product not being credited . . .

doesn't inspire confidence in buyers when they are left in the dark on variables that affect value, both real and perceived.

Jeff, you might be going a little past the extreme. There is so much public knowledge on cue making in this forum alone, You just have to read. The only things really missing is the individualism. But if you read you can get a feel for some of that too. Why do you think this section of the forum exists to begin with. The other part is why have so many cue makers left this forum? Answer, sideline bullshit and dis-respect. It's all here to see, Just read the forum. Anyone with common sence should know in the first 15 minutes of a conversation with a Cue maker, whether they want to invest in one of his cues or not. People may ask me, did you, I say yes, some might say why? and my answer is always the same, Because I want total control over what I do. I also let people in my shop as long as they follow certain rules,
1-The most important rule is my saftey.
2-Other than a repair, I don't build or run certain machinery when someone is here.
3- If I think your rude or a shithead, you can't come here.
4- If I invite you, what you see is no ones business.
5-If you touch anything, your out of here and quick too.
6-I try my best to be a Gentleman at all times, but if you break a rule, I turn to an @hole.
Did I miss anything. Cue makers are human too.;)
 
The AZ forum in general is about POOL THINGS. But this paticular forum is called, "Ask The Cuemaker".
I have no problem with you asking the questions you asked. But most often when someone brings up a controversial issue it usually turns into a "Bash the Cuemakers" or "Let's Teach the Cuemakers" forum. I have no problems with any cuemaker that I know of. I just wish questions would be asked and the Cuemakers would answer, instead of the non-cuemakers jumping in and trying to teach the cuemakers.
I have no problem with your questions, but having seen this subject brought up before and seeing how nasty it has gotten in the past, I felt I should have stayed out of it for my last few posts. I could make several more points about the negatives in giving your sources away to potential customers, but then I would just have to be taught the correct way to run a custom cue shop by non-cuemakers.
All I ask is to let this forum be a true "Ask the Cuemaker" forum and not a "Teach the Cuemaker" forum. You started the thread and have a right to ask all the question you see fit. But I really don't feel that the other non-cuemakers should jump in with answers. They should be free to ask questions also, but not teach the cuemakers and non-cuemakers anything. This forum is for the cuemakers to answer the questions.
But I did take the bait and ask some questions of non-cuemakers and I do feel I owe all here an apology for that. I should not have violated the intentions of this thread by asking the non-cuemakers questions, which only served to continue the argument.
You are an asset to the pool world and certainly have good taste in pool cues as the pictures of your cue collection shows. So I encourage you to continue asking whatever questions you want, and I hope to provide honest answers without getting into debates with the other non-cuemakers who post. I once again apologize if my negative comments to the non-cuemakers took away from the quality of this thread.




You make some good points. But getting back to the original question.

Would you personally want to know if someone sold you a custom cue, and found out after the fact that he barely made any of it?


steve
 
Would you personally want to know if someone sold you a custom cue, and found out after the fact that he barely made any of it?


steve

Yes Sir, no matter how much the cue cost.
By the way, I don't think I ever appreciated the start to finish til I did some conversions. Conversions can be hard work.
 
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You make some good points. But getting back to the original question.

Would you personally want to know if someone sold you a custom cue, and found out after the fact that he barely made any of it?


steve
I really don't care who does how much of the work on the cue. I collect cues also, so I am speaking as a collector here and not a cuemaker. I collect mostly older cues and it does not bother me one bit if someone buys a point blank, or has someone else machine their joint pin, or has someone write their CNC programs for them or do inlay work for them. Some people buy Ivory tusks and cut them up from scratch. Others buy butt plates and joints and ferrules already turned round. It does not make me any difference. We have a few Hall of Fame cuemakers who had someone else make alot of their parts for them. But the final product will always speak for itself.
When someone puts their signature or brand name on the cue it is just a brand name to me. Whatever that brand represents whether a one man shop or ten men it is what it is. Almost everyone of the cuemakers you know has someone build some of their parts for them or do some of the work for them, whether it is a joint screw, leather tip, ferrule, rubber bumper, leather blank, point blank, wood turning square, shaft dowel, inlay or inlay slab.
The decorative parts that you mention like veneered forearm point blanks or inlay work will not be the major deciding factor on how the cue plays. So I do not look at it like the maker barely made anything. He had help. He just had more help than some others get, but we all get help on our cues, even the one man shops still did not do 100% of their work from scratch.
I guess because I collect older cues and know that most of the old timers purchased point blanks that it has never been an issue for me when buying one of their cues or anyone elses cues.
 
I really don't care who does how much of the work on the cue. I collect cues also, so I am speaking as a collector here and not a cuemaker. I collect mostly older cues and it does not bother me one bit if someone buys a point blank, or has someone else machine their joint pin, or has someone write their CNC programs for them or do inlay work for them. Some people buy Ivory tusks and cut them up from scratch. Others buy butt plates and joints and ferrules already turned round. It does not make me any difference. We have a few Hall of Fame cuemakers who had someone else make alot of their parts for them. But the final product will always speak for itself.
When someone puts their signature or brand name on the cue it is just a brand name to me. Whatever that brand represents whether a one man shop or ten men it is what it is. Almost everyone of the cuemakers you know has someone build some of their parts for them or do some of the work for them, whether it is a joint screw, leather tip, ferrule, rubber bumper, leather blank, point blank, wood turning square, shaft dowel, inlay or inlay slab.
The decorative parts that you mention like veneered forearm point blanks or inlay work will not be the major deciding factor on how the cue plays. So I do not look at it like the maker barely made anything. He had help. He just had more help than some others get, but we all get help on our cues, even the one man shops still did not do 100% of their work from scratch.
I guess because I collect older cues and know that most of the old timers purchased point blanks that it has never been an issue for me when buying one of their cues or anyone elses cues.




For someone that is just buying older cues, I understand completely. It was never an issue back then......but this is now. Life goes on and things change, as in the number of cuemakers now versus back in the 60s thru the 70s and more. To me it still comes down to what you refuse to address

Honesty......Integrity.......self respect

Not to mention that it seems a bit over the top to cast a shadow over all the fantastic artistic cuemaking experts that have those three atributes, and display them every day.....

Steve
 
Steve,

Your question has been answered six ways from Sunday and yet you persist in pushing your opinion here. So, to me the original question was not a question and neither was your rephrasing it after being reamed by several cuemakers it was simply to express your views. So, once again, this is a forum to ask the cuemaker. Express your opinions on the main forum.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
 
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hey

Cueman........do you sell blanks and parts to cues??????? If so, dont you think you just might be a little biased in this discussion.

You obviously should sell your parts to whoever wants to buy them. How and what they do with these parts after they get them has nothing to do with you.

But your opinion might be a little slanted on this issue
no disrespect meant
Steve
 
Well Steve I know this probably isn't what you intended for your original post but I thought of a different perpective and wanted to share. I guess I should apologize in advance for "taking the bait" just to CYA.

I don't think a lot of people realize how close knit the cuemaking community really is. I've got several fellow cuemakers that I consider close personal friends and communicate with on a regular basis. That being said we all also help each other if needed. Help by sending material if we're in a pinch, tips, ferrules, pins, rings, whatever to keep things on track for the customer. Once I did inlays. Did the cuemaker tell the customer? NO because I'm not doing inlays for anyone else! I forgot the circumstances now but it was something I could do relatively quick and help him keep on schedule with the customer. I think his pantograph was down with parts on back order. And I know I've got a standing offer if I ever need a short splice forearm. I don't make that many and as a favor the offer is there. He would torture me if I told anyone because he's not interested in doing it for anyone else. I've never taken him up on the offer but it is there. As a customer if that sped up your delivery by several months and the quality was there...does it really matter? Hell he and I both use the same glue, miter veneers the same way, use the same point cutters. No one could tell the difference.

Also I would like to safely assume that any cuemaker that bought a part for one of his cues would inspect it and ONLY IF it met his approval would he incorperate it in one of his cues. Speculation but it would make sense to me.

This isn't the same as buying an entire cue overseas and finishing it as your own...which I think is the point you're trying to make. I just wanted to throw that out there because in extreme circumstances sometimes we lean on our friends to help keep our delivery times on schedule. And I'm betting I opened up a hornets nest!

Mark Bear
 
hey

Well Steve I know this probably isn't what you intended for your original post but I thought of a different perpective and wanted to share. I guess I should apologize in advance for "taking the bait" just to CYA.

I don't think a lot of people realize how close knit the cuemaking community really is. I've got several fellow cuemakers that I consider close personal friends and communicate with on a regular basis. That being said we all also help each other if needed. Help by sending material if we're in a pinch, tips, ferrules, pins, rings, whatever to keep things on track for the customer. Once I did inlays. Did the cuemaker tell the customer? NO because I'm not doing inlays for anyone else! I forgot the circumstances now but it was something I could do relatively quick and help him keep on schedule with the customer. I think his pantograph was down with parts on back order. And I know I've got a standing offer if I ever need a short splice forearm. I don't make that many and as a favor the offer is there. He would torture me if I told anyone because he's not interested in doing it for anyone else. I've never taken him up on the offer but it is there. As a customer if that sped up your delivery by several months and the quality was there...does it really matter? Hell he and I both use the same glue, miter veneers the same way, use the same point cutters. No one could tell the difference.

Also I would like to safely assume that any cuemaker that bought a part for one of his cues would inspect it and ONLY IF it met his approval would he incorperate it in one of his cues. Speculation but it would make sense to me.

This isn't the same as buying an entire cue overseas and finishing it as your own...which I think is the point you're trying to make. I just wanted to throw that out there because in extreme circumstances sometimes we lean on our friends to help keep our delivery times on schedule. And I'm betting I opened up a hornets nest!

Mark Bear



Mark, that is the point I was trying to make. It got taken to a different place.
I personally have no problem with what you just explained....as a matter of fact its nice to know that some of you guys are helping each other out in such a tough business to be in.

Over the years I have made some great friends with a bunch of fabulous people, who happen to be incredible cuemakers. If I never bought another cue, I would still want to spend time with them all.

Steve
 
For someone that is just buying older cues, I understand completely. It was never an issue back then......but this is now. Life goes on and things change, as in the number of cuemakers now versus back in the 60s thru the 70s and more. To me it still comes down to what you refuse to address

Honesty......Integrity.......self respect

Not to mention that it seems a bit over the top to cast a shadow over all the fantastic artistic cuemaking experts that have those three atributes, and display them every day.....

Steve
What does the fact that there are more cuemakers now have to do with Honesty.....Integrity...... Self Respect??????????? Never mind I am not supposed to ask non-cuemakers questions on here.
I guess I am too old school of a cue maker to see things your way. I started over 20 years ago when everything was held as top secret. I have given away many trade secrets, but wholesale sources is one that I do not share very often.
It seems you are accusing Balabushka and all the old timers of having a lack of Honesty.....Integrity...... and Self Respect???????????
I am not going to ask any questions here. But I came up when the standard was it was acceptable to buy a blank and use it and never tell a soul where it came from or if you made it or not. That was the standard for decades, but now in the 21st century it seems you think that those who do have a lack of Honesty.....Integrity...... Self Respect. I am not one who thinks morality changes with the times. If it is wrong today it was wrong then. If it was right then, it is right today.
 
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Cueman........do you sell blanks and parts to cues??????? If so, dont you think you just might be a little biased in this discussion.

You obviously should sell your parts to whoever wants to buy them. How and what they do with these parts after they get them has nothing to do with you.

But your opinion might be a little slanted on this issue
no disrespect meant
Steve
Yes I sell blanks. And yes I am a little biased. And I will not tell you who buys blanks from me. If they want that information known that is up to them. I have seen many cuemakers with low skill butcher a very nice point blank and produce a sub standard cue. So the quality of the cuemaker will still show. The final product will speak for itself.
 
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Some people just can't resist baiting others. Take the bait, and you're just going to get upset, and delete all your forum posts, and whine about how the forums are being ruined by trolls, etc. etc. :grin-square:
 
What does the fact that there are more cuemakers now have to do with Honesty.....Integrity...... Self Respect??????????? Never mind I am not supposed to ask non-cuemakers questions on here.
I guess I am too old school of a cue maker to see things your way. I started over 20 years ago when everything was held as top secret. I have given away many trade secrets, but wholesale sources is one that I do not share very often.
It seems you are accusing Balabushka and all the old timers of having a lack of Honesty.....Integrity...... and Self Respect???????????
I am not going to ask any questions here. But I came up when the standard was it was acceptable to buy a blank and use it and never tell a soul where it came from or if you made it or not. That was the standard for decades, but now in the 21st century it seems you think that those who do have a lack of Honesty.....Integrity...... Self Respect. I am not one who thinks morality changes with the times. If it is wrong today it was wrong then. If it was right then, it is right today.



I love the old timers work. I own 22 cues by George, Gus, Burton and Palmer
steve and love them all. I guess we will never agree on this issue, but just discussing it, I learned a lot.

Steve
 
lol... Go ahead fellow cue makers. Respond to this one. 15 years ago this conversation never would have taken place. That is does now does not boarder on rude it far surpasses it.
i fail to see what is rude about stating my opinion as a customer.
. . . and you address nothing while calling me rude!?

i do see your point about this being the "ask the cuemaker" forum . . .
but the thread had been around quite a while, with several replies, prior to my own.
 
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