The Best Thing to EVER happen to Pool!

JB Cases said:
Imagine Archer and Alex barking at each other during a match at the US Open and on tv live they each say "TAR - to 100 bet $50,000!". Sounds like fun. :-)
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Now that would be great!!! .... but sadly no live TV or TV at all most of the time.
 
America:


Streaming is great for sure, but its not the best hing toi ever happen to pool, Its sad that TAR sometimes only gets 100 PPV in their audience, thats 2 people in every state. By accident you would think the numbers would be more, Even 10 people per state would be 500 on the PPV. And TAR has a very professional set-up now. I'm not knocking TAR, I do everything to support them and will continue to, but man the numbers are low considering how many people are possible.


With these numbers its clear why ABC,NBC,CBS, ESPN, ETC doesnt have much pool on TV anymore. We have over 300,000,000 people in america the math is ugly:

500/300,000,000= something so small it donsnt matter.

____________________________________

Europe:

BBC and EuroSport(like ESPN all over Europe) does cover snooker and while the audiences arnt what they were 15 years ago they are still big, I would guess over 100,000 for any televised event and maybe a million for the Snooker Championship,

I dont know the population of all of Europe but snooker is still a viable thing for TV there, China is comming into snooker as well.


_________________


My point is this, pool in America is so small that a great production of great players that TAR produces ony draws a audience of 500-1500 people. TAR is great, what sucks is that more people dont watch TAR or any steaming, I watched one the other night 39 viewers-how is that possible? by accident there should be more, just with the traffic from AZ pointing them there, I dont think marketing is the issue, I firlmy believe its "The market" people, young people dont like pool, dont care and may not even know about pool. We need a movie or 2 to stir up market,

"Pool is Cool"

Something like that, not "Poolhall Junkies" that hurt pool, not the movie but the name implys bad thoughts, dosent it? If you didnt play pool what would you think, needles, booze, drugs, degenerate people. that name dosent congure up images of people like Ralf, Mika, tony crosby, JA, etc.


Streaming will be good when the market is ready for it, TAR is positioned to capture that market when it happens. But TAR, Fatboy, or all of here combined is NOT strong enough to create that market, Hollywood might be able to. Something like the IPT might get hollywoods attention then a combination of everyones efforts will create the market. It aint easy,


Barboxes saved pool, IMO, at least it puts cues in bangers hands, and bangers are the people who will become the Market I just discussed
 
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The best thing to happen to pool lately is Earl Munson up in Dallas IMO. Who???? He's the director of the high school association in Dallas. He is doing the most vital work in the game currently. If others would follow his lead the game would grow by leaps and bounds. The drawback is that it involves time and effort.
 
JB Cases said:
Actually it was Accu-Stats and Billiard Club Network that pioneered professional class live-streaming of pool. And they did it at the US Open and DCC more than five years ago.

I don't think that live streaming is the best thing to happen to pool.

The 5 "best" things that happened to pool that have kept pool alive are The Hustler, The Fats/Mosconi matchups on ABC's Wide World Of Sports in the 80's, Steve Mizerak's Miller Lite commercial, The Color of Money, and finally pool leagues.

Live streaming of pool caters to a very small and highly knowledgeable audience. It's flat out boring for the rest of the world.

Next time you think otherwise then go to UStream when anyone is doing a livestream of pool and find a puppy cam or a kitty cam to compare it to. A lot of UStream viewers click on the button that shows them what shows are being broadcast at that moment - the numbers don't lie as to what people choose to watch.

And the numbers get much much much worse when people are asked to PAY for the stream as TAR has found out. In this case it's build it and they will come for free and leave when asked to pay. The highest I have seen in chat for free was around 1000 and the highest in chat I have seen on the PPV is around 200 - I think. I am sure that TAR can weigh in with very accurate numbers if they choose to.

Races to 100 are great for the players. There is no doubt whatsoever who the better player is after a race to 100. You get to see it all, skill, stamina, heart, woofing, it's all there. For the fan though it's brutally long and completely out of the realm of possibillity for the vast majority of fans to be able to watch all the way through.

Think of how much crap we get for wanting to spend four hours watching a football game. 8 hours a day watching pool? For three days? Sorry but the demographics on that is that a tiny tiny minority of even hard core pool fans can swing that. If I had the DVD of just one match it would take me six months to find the time to watch it all.

So maybe it's time to rethink the strategy? Maybe shorter sets for less cash but more of them? I don't know what the answer is.

Maybe promotion on YouTube and other video sites? Like make some commercials that "air" on YouTube? How about showing a video of a particularly tough out that a pro made in a clutch situation and inviting YouTubers to try it for a prize. Have it be a contest where you give away something just for trying - so everyone who uploads a video of themselves trying the out can have a shot at winning something - and then have a nicer prize for those who upload videos of themselves completing the runout.

I mean there are TONS of ways to get visibility using guerilla marketing tactics. But as long as it's just a case of people like us who know about it - and not even all of us know when a stream happens, then it will remain something that has little to no impact on pool's overall popularity among the general public.
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The most I have ever had live is 180. On youtube I have 2.7 million views and about 800,000 views on all other sites combined. I once got 24,000 views in one day for one video. That is a rare event. If you are looking for maximum exposure of your content the 3 minute youtube route is the way to go.

Live streaming is young and on the whole not a lot of people are even aware of it. Streamers will get better and the technology as a whole will also get better. Payperview at this point is not a good idea IMO. Too much free stuff out there to watch.
 
mnorwood said:
The most I have ever had live is 180. On youtube I have 2.7 million views and about 800,000 views on all other sites combined. I once got 24,000 views in one day for one video. That is a rare event. If you are looking for maximum exposure of your content the 3 minute youtube route is the way to go.

Live streaming is young and on the whole not a lot of people are even aware of it. Streamers will get better and the technology as a whole will also get better. Payperview at this point is not a good idea IMO. Too much free stuff out there to watch.
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Mnorwood

Check your metrics for the dates of any given stream and see how many unique viewers you had.

Please report back.

Thanks,

Ray
 
Bigtruck said:
Mnorwood

Check your metrics for the dates of any given stream and see how many unique viewers you had.

Please report back.

Thanks,

Ray
Click to expand...
I have only done 2 live streams and the most that was on at once was in the 140s. Youtube has only kept data on unique users for about 8 months. The most unique users in one day for youtube has been 3800, I consistently draw between 2000 and 2500 unique viewers everyday according to youtube insight.
 
Fatboy said:
America:


Streaming is great for sure, but its not the best hing toi ever happen to pool, Its sad that TAR sometimes only gets 100 PPV in their audience, thats 2 people in every state. By accident you would think the numbers would be more, Even 10 people per state would be 500 on the PPV. And TAR has a very professional set-up now. I'm not knocking TAR, I do everything to support them and will continue to, but man the numbers are low considering how many people are possible.


With these numbers its clear why ABC,NBC,CBS, ESPN, ETC doesnt have much pool on TV anymore. We have over 300,000,000 people in america the math is ugly:

500/300,000,000= something so small it donsnt matter.

____________________________________

Europe:

BBC and EuroSport(like ESPN all over Europe) does cover snooker and while the audiences arnt what they were 15 years ago they are still big, I would guess over 100,000 for any televised event and maybe a million for the Snooker Championship,

I dont know the population of all of Europe but snooker is still a viable thing for TV there, China is comming into snooker as well.


_________________


My point is this, pool in America is so small that a great production of great players that TAR produces ony draws a audience of 500-1500 people. TAR is great, what sucks is that more people dont watch TAR or any steaming, I watched one the other night 39 viewers-how is that possible? by accident there should be more, just with the traffic from AZ pointing them there, I dont think marketing is the issue, I firlmy believe its "The market" people, young people dont like pool, dont care and may not even know about pool. We need a movie or 2 to stir up market,

"Pool is Cool"

Something like that, not "Poolhall Junkies" that hurt pool, not the movie but the name implys bad thoughts, dosent it? If you didnt play pool what would you think, needles, booze, drugs, degenerate people. that name dosent congure up images of people like Ralf, Mika, tony crosby, JA, etc.


Streaming will be good when the market is ready for it, TAR is positioned to capture that market when it happens. But TAR, Fatboy, or all of here combined is NOT strong enough to create that market, Hollywood might be able to. Something like the IPT might get hollywoods attention then a combination of everyones efforts will create the market. It aint easy,


Barboxes saved pool, IMO, at least it puts cues in bangers hands, and bangers are the people who will become the Market I just discussed
Click to expand...


I do wonder if TAR could change up and stop marketing towards gamblers and the serious pool fanatics(which have low numbers) and gear at the league players.

I think having a barbox 8ball series would be great. Some type of league rules and good commentating. It needs to be a series just to allow time for the 250000 league players to figure it all out.
I would broadcast on a Sunday evening so its not too late and Sun is a slow league day.

Maybe the first one or two Free and then charge a reasonable price for the rest.
It might generate interest in their others and expose some players to the top Pros.
It would defintely need to be a produced event. It could even be interactive. Stop in the middle and do a short interview both guys. Maybe they plug their sponsors and tell about their cues etc. Then randomly select 10 questions from Viewers and answer them.

I would buy this and think that these could be sold especially at BCA and APA nationals.

I really wonder just how many more PPVs that they could get doing something simliar to this.
Of course I dont know the production numbers and feasability but I think TAR could find some sponsors either for the Pit area or for small spots during the broadcast. Maybe they feature a sponsor each broadcast with a 3-5 minute promo spot showing thier products or services.
 
mnorwood said:
I have only done 2 live streams and the most that was on at once was in the 140s. Youtube has only kept data on unique users for about 8 months. The most unique users in one day for youtube has been 3800, I consistently draw between 2000 and 2500 unique viewers everyday according to youtube insight.
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Can you elaborate?

Only 3800 unique viewers to what? Sorry but I am a little lost and you have my curiousity going :D
 
frankncali said:
Can you elaborate?

Only 3800 unique viewers to what? Sorry but I am a little lost and you have my curiousity going :D
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Mnorwood has talked about his youtubes and stream has low numbers but never once told us where we could go to watch some!! LOL

Give it up brother!!

Ray

Edit: My bad....It's in his signature!!
 
Bigtruck said:
Mnorwood has talked about his youtubes and stream has low numbers but never once told us where we could go to watch some!! LOL

Give it up brother!!

Ray

Edit: My bad....It's in his signature!!
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As far as I know a unique users represents one person. You could have 6000 video views but only 100 unique viewers. You could have 2000 unique viewers and only 2000 views.

Ray you can see the the last stream on youtube. I posted it on youtube. The last frame has the most views.

By the way Jeremy Jones is a great guy. I really feal lucky to have met him.

Best,
Marcus
 
mnorwood said:
As far as I know a unique users represents one person. You could have 6000 video views but only 100 unique viewers. You could have 2000 unique viewers and only 2000 views.

Ray you can see the the last stream on youtube. I posted it on youtube. The last frame has the most views.

By the way Jeremy Jones is a great guy. I really feal lucky to have met him.

Best,
Marcus
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I was actually referring to Ustream Metrics or stats. Whole different animal. You may have 4,000 people stop by, then you can divide by your viewer hours.

Ray
 
Bigtruck said:
I was actually referring to Ustream Metrics or stats. Whole different animal. You may have 4,000 people stop by, then you can divide by your viewer hours.

Ray
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Have not done a stream on ustream. I am a mac user and it has only been within the last two months that Ustream has become mac friendly.

Later on then,
Marcus
 
there are two things that will get me to watch live streaming pool. One is a good quality match against quality players. I have no interest in watching players I can see at my local pool hall. The other is good commentary. If I turn on a stream and I see to B players playing with no commentary I am gone.

I believe the IPT was getting better with the commentary and I really enjoy the commentary when I watch the Mosconi cup. They do a good job of commentating and editing the matches to make it interesting.
 
efirkey said:
there are two things that will get me to watch live streaming pool. One is a good quality match against quality players. I have no interest in watching players I can see at my local pool hall. The other is good commentary. If I turn on a stream and I see to B players playing with no commentary I am gone.

I believe the IPT was getting better with the commentary and I really enjoy the commentary when I watch the Mosconi cup. They do a good job of commentating and editing the matches to make it interesting.
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I agree efirkey. You make a good observation though and I appreciate it.

Commentating is something that I have been working hard on. I have streamed both "B" player tourney's and the best of the best. Either way, good commentary makes it better. Going back and listening to myself is really hard. I did notice that I shouldn't drink until it's over or nearly over! LOL.

Commentating IS hard work to do well. It wears you down.

Thanks!

Ray
 
ironman said:
I think you make a very valid point her, but, as always there aretwo perspectves on this subject.

There are serious players and those who are stuents of the game and really very intrested in getting better. They by and large see the bar table game as someting which blongs in a romper room. Nothing but a toy and I understand that attitude. There are people playing leagues and running out who can't play even a little bit, but, the bar box makes it appear that they can.

On the other hand, you have room owners and tavern owners who exloit leagues to get people to the tables and cheeks at the bar seats. They could gie ashit less about the game and seldom see more that 6 feet beyond the bar. Thus, it gets to be a weekly ritual and somewhat a following and to these players, it is a night out and a chance to get slobbered and beat up on a peice of equipment that is hard to damage. What are they going to do make them roll off. Level bar box is an oxy moron anyway.
The BCA pushes them simply because they make millions off them each year. Other than that, they could care less as they don't see 6 feet past the coin machine.

It is too bad the IPT had to come from KT as I really believe Mike was onto somthing here by maing it an 8 ball tour. It offered something to those on both sides of the fence. Sure 8 ball is a mickey mouse game, but, it is the game most started with and the general public has some understanding of it. Hence, the game finally had a chance at the only thing which will save the game,,,,,an audience. Until that happens,,, it will continue to be a hard, very hard struggle.
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I just made a statement without much detail. What actually happened was like bringing an animal breed back from extinction that is how far pool had fallen. The coin-op tables began appearing in bars. There were no leagues or anything. Just people picking up a cue again or maybe for the first time and playing. It was not long before they were coming to the bar to play pool as much as play the jukebox and have a beer. Bar owners began to recognize this an adding more tables. I had one friend who closed his liquor store attached to his bar and put in 15 coin-op tables. This began to spread. Bars were adding as many tables as they had room for. Then the birth of the leagues came and bars were building business around the pool tables. Over time you began to see a pool room open here and there and as they say the rest is history. Even now though there are pool rooms closing as pool may be on a bit down turn, but the bar table will always keep the game alive. The bar table is here to stay and for, I would say the majority of those who play, the only pool they know.
 
Bigtruck said:
I agree efirkey. You make a good observation though and I appreciate it.

Commentating is something that I have been working hard on. I have streamed both "B" player tourney's and the best of the best. Either way, good commentary makes it better. Going back and listening to myself is really hard. I did notice that I shouldn't drink until it's over or nearly over! LOL.

Commentating IS hard work to do well. It wears you down.

Thanks!

Ray
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Everyone seems to think they are better when they are drinking. They and myself are not, but drinking can make playing/commentating/performing more fun and memorable. I drink myself, but I never play better when I am drinking, but if I lose i don't care as much.

commentating seems to me very hard and I think commentating is done well when they can do it after the fact and edit and take their time like they do with the show "wipe out" or any reality show for that matter. When you do it live you can't take anything back or have any do overs. I don't envy you guys at all and for the most part think you do a great job! I certainly couldn't do it.
 
YouTube has two things that are super attractive to viewers and two that are super attractive to content providers - it's free and on demand meaning that people can watch whatever they find that interests them whenver they want to. For content providers whatever they put up has a pretty much indefinite shelf life, even with advertisements that are announcing a dated event, and there is an audience that numbers in the hundreds of millions that has millions of chances each day to stumble across the content.

I think YouTube and similar video sites can be a great way to drive traffic to paid content - like DVDs and PPV - possibly. For the real info on whether that is true or not you would need to ask Billiard Club Network which has posted full matches on YouTube to drive traffic to it's website.

I have said this many times - on a personal level I would buy a lot more PPV streaming - or even view more IF it were available in archived format so that I could watch as much as I wanted to whenever it's convenient for me to do so.

When I could get YouTube I used to download whatever interesting videos I found and watch them later. In China I don't have that ability right now but you can bet that when I am in Vegas this week I will be loading up the hard drive with whatever is new on YouTube. As a consumer thats a lot of impressions that someone is going to be showing me.
 
JB: about seeing youtube vids in china ... here's something I've heard will work around it:

go to www.keepvid.com and put the youtube link in there. You'll be allowed to save the file and play it back.
 
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