Grady vs Jasmin - Who wins straight up
- Thread starter PAMike
- Start date
You just said J Schmidt isn't the favorite against Jasmin? Man, either I woke up in a dream or I completely forgot how to match up. Does John know this? I am sure he hasn't heard. Either you aren't out in the "match up world" of pool, or you watch way too much tv and believe more than half of what you read. There are a ton of players I'd love to see her play, just within a 200 mile radius of me. No, they probably don't play straight pool, I'm talking about 9-10 ball. This conversation is over. Come on, you can't believe what you just said?
That is my point, no disrespect to anyone on this board but as an American living in Austria for almost 20 years now and I have played against her, and her little brother and her father who also is a former Austrian Champion and the most people have now idea the level she is capable of playing.
I was telling people over 10 years ago in America we have a little girl over here that is going to kick some major a## in the future and they all laughed. Right!!!
I know who has been laughing since!!!!
Sure she can be beat but she can also beat anyone and I mean anyone except IN 1 hole cause nobody ever plays it over here!!!!
no-sho
She beat John in the 2007 event. No handicap. I think when they say John isn't a favourite to beat her, they're saying he's not going to run all over her. She can run just the same as him if she gets the right shot. She has the ability to go 150 and out, just like John or Danny. She has established herself as an elite player at 14.1, and I think you would be hard pressed to find ANYONE on this board that isn't Thorsten, Danny, John or Nick VBD that would think they have a real shot at beating her. If so, they should be playing a qualifier for the 14.1 event, because she's placed top 10 in the world with every entry. Either we have some real undiscovered 14.1 talent on the board, or I think you're blinded by the fact she's a girl to give her the proper credit she deserves.
Jean Balukas was one of the best 14.1 players in the world in her day. She was up against the likes of Mizerak, Sigel, Hopkins, etc., and she could hang with the boys too.
Jasmin is the real deal. No doubt about it. She can beat any top male player in any given set at any time. However I do not think that she can spot an in form Grady Matthews anything. I have seen her play DAMN GOOD pool.
In 14.1 there are definitely not 20 posters on this board who are "favorites" over Jasmin in any particular game to 150. She will always win her share.
Personally though I feel kind of gratified that FINALLY a woman player is being spoken of with such high regard, in regards to her ability to compare to men players, by so many posters who really have a handle on her speed.
Even though I like Grady in this matchup (call it loyal nostalgia if you like) I still feel that the top women can take any particular set from any man.
In 14.1 there are definitely not 20 posters on this board who are "favorites" over Jasmin in any particular game to 150. She will always win her share.
Personally though I feel kind of gratified that FINALLY a woman player is being spoken of with such high regard, in regards to her ability to compare to men players, by so many posters who really have a handle on her speed.
Even though I like Grady in this matchup (call it loyal nostalgia if you like) I still feel that the top women can take any particular set from any man.
I don't know about that, but I do know that the EPBF were taping the Men's semifinal and final at the European Championship at the 2006. They should have taped Jasmin's matches, playing at the table next to them...
In the semifinal she ran 75 and out on her first inning.
In the final she opened with a foul-shot, her opponent ran 30+ and missed and Jasmin finished off with 76 and out to win the match and championship.
She seemed like she would never miss. I wish that 1) they had taped it and 2) that she would keep shooting to see how much she could do
No woman has ever run 200 balls, at least no runs that are known. The highest I've ever heard of is Jeanette Lee running 152 or 156, I know a few people who witnessed it. I'm not sure of Jean's high run but I know she's run at least in the 125-130 range.
Wait a minute here, you honestly don't think that John Schmidt is the favorite over Jasmin? I know she had a great run at last years worlds and everything but come on! I know anything can happen in a single 150 point match, a player gets hot and has a big run, but if they were to play 10 matches I have no doubt Schmidt would win 8 of them. John Schmidt's high run is 403, in fact he's run 400+ twice! Not to mention many, many 200+ runs. What's Jasmin's hign run? I'm sure it's less than 180 or we'd all have heard about it.
I bolded the last sentence because the fact that she's a girl definitely comes into play. Male players have sometimes had trouble playing strong women players, and as lame a sentiment as that is, it's not an untrue one.
I consider myself to be a stronger 14.1 player than Jasmine, but she's more of a champion than I will ever be. She knows how to win under pressure in situations that I just won't. I doubt I could ever come in 3rd in a World Championship - but there's two sides to that. I might not play as well as Jasmine did deep in that tournament - but Oliver and Mika wouldn't be falling all over themselves in the games against me either. I'd be lucky to get 4 wide open innings against Mika in a race to 200. I heard the games against Mika and Oliver were not anywhere near world-class. I'm going from memory here, but save for a 70 ball run Jasmine made against Mika, the rest of the game was very sloppy from what I heard. They were trading 8s and 12s, though to be fair the equipment was playing tough. There will always be something amazing about beating Mika late in a tournament, but beating Mika when he's running 12s has a little less shine to it, imo.
Another example: there's a video from the first dragon world 14.1 where Jasmine is playing Allen Hopkins. Allen played like a C player. Jasmine did run like 59-and-out but up to that point I've never seen Allen look so bad. In other matches in the same tournament, Allen beat Hohmann and Engert. He wasn't playing like a C player against those guys.
I don't want to make it seem like she's not a very strong player, nor that the only way she can beat great male players is if they let her. She's a great player and she's only going to get better. It's great for 14.1.
That said, in my opinion, you can't deny the effect of the male vs. female phenomenon. It's there, and as long as there are so few strong women players to compete with the men (to the point where it's still an oddity when they play), it's not going anywhere for a while.
- Steve
P.S. My claim to fame: The only reason Jasmine was able to come in 3rd last year was because I dogged a shot against her. When I played her in the round robin, I missed a marginal shot at 92, which allowed her to make 8 more balls before I won. She made it out of our bracket by something like 2 balls.
PHP:
I also believe that john is a favourite to win the majority of matches against her, but she has won the 1 match they played.
Also, they have played in the World 14-1 Championship the last three years, with the following results.
2008:
Jasmin 3rd
John 5th
2007
John 5th
Jasmin 9th
2006
Jasmin 5th
John 9th
Jasmin has played a lot more matches than one race to 150, to get finishes like this. Don't forget that these tournaments have had players such as Ortmann, Feijen, Hohmann, Schmidt, Harriman, Orcullo, Bustamante, Souquet, Mike Sigel, Nick van den Berg etc.
Even though most of us rank John as a better 14-1 player than Jasmin, she has been more consistent (slightly) during the last three 14-1 tournaments they have played.
She has beat John, Oliver Ortmann and Mika Immonen, to name a few. In 2006, she lost in the quarterfinal against Hohmann, who won the event. In 2008 she beat Mika Immonen in the last 16 and reigning champion Ortmann in the quarterfinal, both in a race to 200.
Ok this is getting tiring we all know this isnt for the cash and to be honest comparing her and john is outrageous. There will always be people that play good or get lucky and win a match in a tourney against a much better player for a varitey of reasons and sometimes seveal matches in the same tourney. That does not take away that fact that these same people get tortured when or if they would match up for the cash.
Sorry but to most of the pool world cash is king!......I would like to see some of these great players from europe that wont play for the cash actually match up i wouldnt be suprised at all if their game wasnt the same. Anyone on here that has played for cash and in tourneys knows that the two are very different, and i think most would agree there are aspects of matching up that never come into play in a tourney.
To me the greatest tournament player will never be better then the best cash player.
Sorry but to most of the pool world cash is king!......I would like to see some of these great players from europe that wont play for the cash actually match up i wouldnt be suprised at all if their game wasnt the same. Anyone on here that has played for cash and in tourneys knows that the two are very different, and i think most would agree there are aspects of matching up that never come into play in a tourney.
To me the greatest tournament player will never be better then the best cash player.
DrOnePocket
Banned
never mind
NYC cue dude
Banned
I can't speak for all of European players, but I know Thorsten doesn't gamble, not because he's afraid (not many have played one rack of ball for a quarter million dollars), but rather because it's morally wrong. He's not the only one who believes that gambling is the reason pool has it's well earned seedy reputations and no corporate sponsorship.
Rg
"Morally wrong" now thats a funny one! They way you feel excludes about 80 to 90 percent of the top players. Explain this almost every thing on tv these days has some aspect that can be seen imorale by some group but yet most of the shows with the worst morals are the biggest hits out there. I dont have all the answers to fix pool but i know blaming a huge aspect of the sport i am positive wont help pool as a whole. The funny thing is if you had a reallity show that actually showed pool the way it is seedy as it may be. It would proablly be a huge hit, but of course that wont happen due to the legal issues the players might face becuase of it.
So if gambling is morally wrong is it also wrong to bet on the stock market? I have never understood this rational when you can equate gambling to so many things that are not considered gambling but really are the same.
So if gambling is morally wrong is it also wrong to bet on the stock market? I have never understood this rational when you can equate gambling to so many things that are not considered gambling but really are the same.
When's the last time you got to write off your gambling losses on your income tax? People don't "gamble" on the stock market. They invest in companies they think can maximize their ROI.
Gambling takes money out of another PERSON's pocket. Stock market earnings come from a company making money, and passing along those earnings to their shareholders. Companies employ people and spend money, and sell things, which STIMULATES the economy. Gambling, on the other hand, takes the money out of the hard working man's pocket, and causes him to miss his rent.
People can gamble at anything - cards, board games, pool, or the stock market. But don't equate investing in stocks as gambling. The two are as far apart as night and day.
NYC cue dude
Banned
I can tell you from personal experience how gambling has hurt the sport.
A few years ago, amber bock beer (budweiser), after years of negotiations AND trepidation, decided to finally sponsor an event with a promise to sponsor more events if things went smoothly.
Anyway, the sponsors showed up at the event, incognito, and found the tournament director taking bets on the matches from the players.
I was there. It was sad to see that opportunity squandered. Never again has the powerful beer money associated itself with pro pool.
You are delusional if you think that gambling and savers don't lead to corruption/dumping in this sport. You obviously haven't thought through your position. Pool can never advance forward by having only industry or individuals as sponsors.
Rg
Stimulate the economy you think thats a valid arguement being where the worlds markets have been the last year. However of course i wasnt saying we should not take part in the stock market or in buisness itself, i was using that as a comparisson, and if you think they are night an day you apparentlyt have not heard of all the millions of people that have had there life destroyed recentley due to the markets. Lots of buisnesses take money from the hard working mans pocket are legal and defintly not morale or good for our health and will use ther rent money up just as quick. Example........... get tanked at a bar or tavern......head down to your local strip club............Im not saying i have not frequented several of these places
, but to say the reason that they wont gamble is because its imorale is in many peoples eyes a easy out instead of steping up and showing there speed in a game where thats been the way you show your talent for the last 50 years or more.
My point dont try to get on the moral high horse when saying what someone should do with there own money.
The fact is most people in this world an i would bet at least 50 percent use there money in ways many people would think are imorale or irresponable, to blame pools downfalls on gambling is in my opinion very short sided. To be honest pool might be even worse off then it is now if the gambling part of the equation was not there for such a long time. Its hard to say how things would have turned out either way.
Oh shawn by the way just casue you lost your families rent money before does not make gambling wrong just means that you are irresponsible. I was assuming that your statement was coming from experience.
, but to say the reason that they wont gamble is because its imorale is in many peoples eyes a easy out instead of steping up and showing there speed in a game where thats been the way you show your talent for the last 50 years or more.My point dont try to get on the moral high horse when saying what someone should do with there own money.
The fact is most people in this world an i would bet at least 50 percent use there money in ways many people would think are imorale or irresponable, to blame pools downfalls on gambling is in my opinion very short sided. To be honest pool might be even worse off then it is now if the gambling part of the equation was not there for such a long time. Its hard to say how things would have turned out either way.
Oh shawn by the way just casue you lost your families rent money before does not make gambling wrong just means that you are irresponsible. I was assuming that your statement was coming from experience.
Nyc i think you have missed my point. So let me ask you this you think no gambling is better for the sport? To me the example you gave is a better example of people not being responsible and doing the wrong things. Yes of course we need to have sponsors but to get sponsors we also need players and people involved in pool to be smart enough to act right when they need to and to not blow opportunity time and time again.
You are the one that is delusional if you dont realize there are tons of other sports where gambling is prevalant ,and they seem to thrive without being corrupt.
Can gambling be bad in some ways of course so can drinking a 6 pack of budweiser and getting a dui or buying 2 dozens dounghts when your already 50 pounds overweight or smoking a pack a day.
I just dont see how anyone thinks its possible to take gambling out of the pool scene, to me thats delusional.
You are the one that is delusional if you dont realize there are tons of other sports where gambling is prevalant ,and they seem to thrive without being corrupt.
Can gambling be bad in some ways of course so can drinking a 6 pack of budweiser and getting a dui or buying 2 dozens dounghts when your already 50 pounds overweight or smoking a pack a day.
I just dont see how anyone thinks its possible to take gambling out of the pool scene, to me thats delusional.
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