Pre-assembled veneer stack rings?

Cue Guru

Cue Guru

Close, but no roll...
Silver Member
Hey guys.

I've got a question for you all.

I'm working on a project right now where I will have a somewhat complex veneer/nickel-silver ring stack both at the joint as well as in the butt sleeve.

My specific question is, do you think it makes sense to glue up the thin veneers into a solid 'ring' using a jig and a press with a teflon guide pin in the center? (once cured the teflon would be removed and the 'micro-sleeve' then glued onto the tenon; or a wood center which would be bored out later- not sure yet...)

Typically a ring or even a few would be epoxied on one at a time with each one being faced (kissed) before the next one goes on etc. But I thought due to the number (seven in this case for each 'feature') and relitive softness of the wood used in the veneers, it might be "OK" to make a compressed stack which would be installed as a single compponent, rather than individual rings. Sort of like a stitch-ring assembly, but in this case, just stacked veneer wood, fiber and nickle-silver.

Another 'cheezy' technique might be to install everything slathered with West and then screw on the steel joint sleeve to provide the compression- sounds like a recipie for disaster to me that way... :sorry:

I would use a ground-steel jig to ensure parallelism as best as possible- maybe even not need the press as I could thread the caps and screw it together too...

Anyway, looking for comments from you guys as this is the first time I will attempt such a large stack of veneer!:thumbup:
 
Thought about it an think it might be better to glue up the veneer and then cut the rings from the glued-up veneer stack... This reduces the joints from six to two...:thumbup:
 
Cue Guru said:
Thought about it an think it might be better to glue up the veneer and then cut the rings from the glued-up veneer stack... This reduces the joints from six to two...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I've never heard of any one using any of your options for gluing up veneer rings in your first post. It is really tough, time consuming and a lot of wastage trying to drill a hole in a single veneer. Often when making a veneered pointed cue I use the same veneers for rings. Just glue up your stack, clamp between to pieces of flat wood or what ever to eliminate any tear out out and use a forstner bit in a drill press to drill your holes with enough space between the holes so that the rings can be band sawed apart. Glue into cue and then the rings will be turned concentric when the cue is turned.

The drawback to using veneer as rings is that the veneer is flat sawn, so, when made into a ring there is two sides of side grain and two sides of end grain and look quite different once finish is applied as it soaks in differently and darkens the end grain sides much more.

Dick
 
Intereting point re being flat sawn.

I knew they were flat sawn but did not think about the color change around the circunfrence due to end-grain exposure, probably because they are so damn thin....

So, I guess it would make sense to alternate the veneers' grain direction in this case, so you don't have a noticeably darker overall side to the ring?
 
Cue Guru said:
Intereting point re being flat sawn.

I knew they were flat sawn but did not think about the color change around the circunfrence due to end-grain exposure, probably because they are so damn thin....

So, I guess it would make sense to alternate the veneers' grain direction in this case, so you don't have a noticeably darker overall side to the ring?
Click to expand...

If it were me, I would orient each ring with the grain going in the same direction. You will have two lighter and two darker quarters per ring, but at least this way you have a uniform appearance. JMO.
Mr H
 
Hmmm... I don't know if I want to do that. I was thinking alternating them would reduce the appearance of a darker side to the final stack, since the color variance will detract the eye in the other direction... Have to think about that some more.

But, if I do align all the end grain in the veneer stack, I should allign that with the maple in the forearm too... (1/4 sawn side of maple with end grain of rings for example)
 
I have a punch that I slide the veneer sheet into , and hit it with a BFH,rubber, and out come a ring , with inside hole and outside perfect, everytime. I got my truck, so be out of town a few days, PM me if you need anything. Jim
 
Cue Guru said:
Hmmm... I don't know if I want to do that. I was thinking alternating them would reduce the appearance of a darker side to the final stack, since the color variance will detract the eye in the other direction... Have to think about that some more.

But, if I do align all the end grain in the veneer stack, I should allign that with the maple in the forearm too... (1/4 sawn side of maple with end grain of rings for example)
Click to expand...

I think you also should consider the stiffness of the stacked rings. If you would
like a radial uniform stiffness you should consider rotating the layers accordingly
- pretty much like a OB shaft :http://www.kendocues.com/Websted/OB1.html
Just so you don't get a softer side than the other..

K
 
Rings are 0.040 and I will be using slow-cure west system which is reasonably thin...

I am not worried about radial stiffness, as this will be a trim ring backed by phenolic and/or ebony on either side of the stack, and it will be below the steel joint collar.

On the shaft end, it will be black phenolic backed to keep the shaft end in tact.

Maybe for consistency, I will use black phenolic for everything- probably not a bad idea.:thumbup:
 
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