HOW CAN YOU (reasonably) PREDICT THE CB PATH

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

CueTable Help

CueTable Help

after cutting a ball up the rail with enough angle to send the CB, after the hit ,to the rail and back out towards the shooter?

It's that shot we hit when the OB is off the rail 2-6 inches with 'stun-right' or 'crisp draw' or 'smooth-stroked medium-firm low right(or left) to get back down table underneath us for a ball on the bottom short rail.(2 rail shape)

I can't read the CB path worth a darn. I scratch underneath me in the corner or come short or long. I run into balls that aren't really in the way.

Should I hit a thousand of them and then come back and ask?

Should I pay more attention to the 'cut' tangent- line travel of the CB to the rail and estimate the 'angle-in /angle out' direction of travel?

I am looking for a method or system to help predict where the damn CB is headed.

Everybody shoots this shot better than me. I want to catch up.

I will be working on it. A lot. I just wondered if anybody else struggles with this shot too.

Thanks
3railkick ('scratch coming)

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVRb2BFUb3...PCtI3UVRb3Ualj3kCtI3kULM3kbOu1kICF1kcOt1kWyK@
 
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I'd pay more attention to the tangent line, and how follow and draw affect that...as well as how sidespin comes off the rail, in the direction you want the CB to go. Can you diagram the shot you're talking about, using Cue Table? You'll get some more specific responses. If you don't know how, there's a sticky, at the top of the first page here (main forum), that shows how to attach a Cue Table diagram to a post.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Judging by the description I think you mean cut a ball into the upper right corner; cue ball spins to the lower left long rail for shape on a object ball (located at bottom of table) on bottom short rail to the lower right corner?

One thing (assuming that's correct) you can do is what Scott said pay attention to the tangent line into the 1st rail. Like Scott said without the cuetable diagram everything is an assumption.

You might want to check cuesport.tv (a UK video pool/snooker website) for Monk's 2-7-2 system shot#1 is that shot. The key is start close to the object ball making pocketing easier and focus on 1st rail contact with varying spin increasing distance between the balls as you gain proficiency.

Sounds like you put to much right English.
 
That's it exactly!!

CueTable Help

:thumbup:
accustatsfan said:
Judging by the description I think you mean cut a ball into the upper right corner; cue ball spins to the lower left long rail for shape on a object ball (located at bottom of table) on bottom short rail to the lower right corner?

One thing (assuming that's correct) you can do is what Scott said pay attention to the tangent line into the 1st rail. Like Scott said without the cuetable diagram everything is an assumption.

You might want to check cuesport.tv (a UK video pool/snooker website) for Monk's 2-7-2 system shot#1 is that shot. The key is start close to the object ball making pocketing easier and focus on 1st rail contact with varying spin increasing distance between the balls as you gain proficiency.

Sounds like you put to much right English.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry- I can't do cuetable yet-I'll work on it.

The scary thing is that you saw the exact shot I'm talking about. That's helpful-I'll take your kindly offered advice.

Thank you and my condolences-seeing such things so clearly must use a guy up.

thanks again -I'll get it figured out

3railkick(where dat nineball?)

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVRb2BFUb3...PCtI3UVRb3Ualj3kCtI3kULM3kbOu1kICF1kcOt1kWyK@
 
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Not sure if this will help you or not, but I started doing something a few years ago that really helped me improve my accuracy on these types of shots. I will first do as others have suggested and find out where the tangent line is. Whenever possible, I will try to use that line coming into the rail rather than altering that line with draw, since it becomes much harder to judge with draw. To determine how much side spin to use, I will sometimes walk around to the side of the table and imagine that my cueball is sitting at the contact point, and that I'm going to hit it into the rail on the tangent line. From there, I can judge with a fair bit of accuracy how much right-hand spin to put on the ball to get it to go downtable on the line I want. After that, I just play the shot like a stop shot (sliding cueball at impact), but with however much side spin I determined was appropriate, and I find that I usually get pretty close to the path I want. So for the shot you diagrammed, I would probably play it to stun into the rail along the tangent line and use maximum right hand spin to carry it downtable, or, if the cloth is new and not taking side spin quite as well, I will play it with a slight amount of draw and maximum right.

Hope that helps,
Aaron
 
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What I found out that works the best is to play this shot with no english for starters. Shot this shot about 30 times, all with different english to see how the CB reacts. No body here can tell you exactly the english you need to apply for the path because everyone stokes the CB differently.
 
I agree with Scott. It is all about the tangent line. If the shot is hit center ball it will stay on the tangent line. It has to come off of the object ball on tangent line no matter what. It is the top, bottom, or side spin that makes it come off of the tangent line after contact. It may help you to watch Little Joes videos, he explains this concept well.
 
got to plug Joe's DVD's

I have to put in a word for Joe Villalpando's DVD's here. This shot and so many more, he gives away in a couple of DVD's what took him, myself, and most old time players years or decades to learn. I have seen many instructional DVD's, by no means all, but for good information presented clearly I have not found any that match Joe's. One entire DVD focuses on cue ball control.

I learned many years ago that you don't have to be much of a shot maker if you absolutely own the cue ball. With it on a string everything else is easy.

Hu
 
For me, being able to accurately predict, and then control the first rail of contact point on any given shot has helped my position play quite a bit. Set any particular shot up and mark the positions of the OB and CB so that you can set the same shot up exactly the same repeatedly. Then pocket the shot with follow, no spin, and medium draw and mark the three places on the rail where the CB makes contact after leaving the OB. Memorize the three contact points on the rail, and to make it even more fun, try to get your CB to hit any spot in between your marks by using left, right English and/or changing up your stroke and speeds and even changing the angle with which you contact the OB (cheating the pocket).
dave
 
Aaron_S said:
...To determine how much side spin to use, I will sometimes walk around to the side of the table and imagine that my cueball is sitting at the contact point, and that I'm going to hit it into the rail on the tangent line. From there, I can judge with a fair bit of accuracy how much right-hand spin to put on the ball to get it to go downtable on the line I want.
Click to expand...

This is how I visualize it too, whether or not I walk around to look at it from that perspective. But when estimating the amount of sidespin to add, don't forget that the CB will pick up some sidespin from its collision with the OB, so you don't need to add all of it.

A good way to calibrate this kind of shot is to practice it with no sidespin and with maximum sidespin - when you have a feel for the two extremes it's easier to estimate the in-between adjustments.

pj
chgo
 
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wwww.pooliq.net

3RAILKICK said:

CueTable Help

CueTable Help

after cutting a ball up the rail with enough angle to send the CB, after the hit ,to the rail and back out towards the shooter?

It's that shot we hit when the OB is off the rail 2-6 inches with 'stun-right' or 'crisp draw' or 'smooth-stroked medium-firm low right(or left) to get back down table underneath us for a ball on the bottom short rail.(2 rail shape)

I can't read the CB path worth a darn. I scratch underneath me in the corner or come short or long. I run into balls that aren't really in the way.

Should I hit a thousand of them and then come back and ask?

Should I pay more attention to the 'cut' tangent- line travel of the CB to the rail and estimate the 'angle-in /angle out' direction of travel?

I am looking for a method or system to help predict where the damn CB is headed.

Everybody shoots this shot better than me. I want to catch up.

I will be working on it. A lot. I just wondered if anybody else struggles with this shot too.

Thanks
3railkick ('scratch coming)

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVRb2BFUb3...PCtI3UVRb3Ualj3kCtI3kULM3kbOu1kICF1kcOt1kWyK@
Click to expand...

This is the PERFECT SHOT that Joe Villapando's 2nd Video CUE BALL CONTROL addresses. If you get this video, I can guarantee that you will know PRECISELY how to get shape and to avoid scratches.

The truth is I used to hand out with Joe and play in tournaments with Joe and I guess I wasn't paying attention because I don't remember him telling me how to get PRECISE shape virtually every time you shoot. After looking at the video, I have incorporated some of his techniques into my game and I can assure you that my game has improved, especially when it comes to cue ball control and avoiding scratches.

Some of his techniques are so accurate for me that when I need to "thread the needle" I do so with far more confidence than I ever had.

Thanks for a great video Joe. Your video has improved my game and that's a fact. (I still need weight from the GingerBread Man but that's another story).


-------------------
I'm guilty of answering the very first post in a thread without reading the rest of the posts. It's the way I am. Sorry for the repetitive praising of Joe V.
JoeyA
 
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Go with Joe V's DVDs

I have to agree with Shooting Arts (Hu) and JoeyA. I have Joe V's DVDs and they have helped a lot to understand rails and position. He provides an accurate method to predict placement. JoeyA has been working with me in detail on what we have learned from the DVDs. It sure has helped my game.

Jamie "DocHutch"
 
Patrick Johnson said:
A good way to calibrate this kind of shot is to practice it with no sidespin and with maximum sidespin - when you have a feel for the two extremes it's easier to estimate the in-between adjustments.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Good tip. :thumbup:
 
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