need some advice - LOOONG

[marek]

Hi!
First I would like to say that I am not sure what I am going to write here as my thoughts are quite confused right now, I will just write them down and something will come out of it..
After playing pool about 10 years I achieved almost everything I wanted to. I won national title, I qualified for and played in european championships (both pool and snooker). Contrary to those facts I have always struggled with my fundamentals (especially aiming) as there are no pool instructors in my country, almost everything I learnt came from books and internet which is not the fast way to learn at all. Finally this year I found a way to shoot pool which I am happy with in terms of fundamentals. During european pool championship I placed 33th out of 125 players in 9ball, I played quite good game of pool and most importantly I found a way to fight stress which is connected with competing on this level, or better to say to channel that stress to play good game of pool and enjoying myself at the same time. Sounds good, doesnt it? but still I am not happy. Right now I have quite a trouble setting my long term goal. I guess everybody needs one to keep motivation on high level, but right now I am not sure what goal should I set for myself... National = local goals? These are nice and clearly achievable for me but I got there already. International success? Would be awesome but there is still a mountain to climb to get there and that mountain is maybe the problem.
As I have struggled with my technique in the past I always spent quite a lot of my practice time shooting straight-ins looking for the „one“ technique which would work for me. Through this I became more of the „shooter“ than the position/finesse player. During this year EC I found out then that I can definitelly compare with the very best players in terms of potting the balls but I lack the sharpness and knowledge in terms of position play. And here comes my dilemma: I know that I can to get to the level where my position play wouldnt hold me back IF I put enough work in it; the trouble is I am not sure if I am able to put that work in there. I am soooo used to work on the straightness of my stroke (which was not THE trouble in my fundamentals after all, aiming error was the culprit) that I find it hard to concentrate on all the postiton drills, it seems that I lack the discipline. Dont get me wrong, I LOVE to practice but it seems that structured regime is my weakness. And yet I feel it is the way to succeed. Maybe I just need some advice about the structure of practice time. Should I practice one particular drill for few weeks until I master it or should I just juggle 15 drills at a time to get more all around game?
I feel like I arrived at the crossroads and didnt know where to go next. I always had a dream to play at a pro level, but the closer I get the more I see how tough that way is. The only thing that keeps me dreaming is my love of the game, but right now I just dont know if I really want to go that way. Part of me keeps telling me I shouldnt stop when I got so far, the other part of me (and most people around me) keeps telling me that I am crazy, that I wouldnt succeed.
Maybe I just need a word or two of encouragement, a piece of good advice, I dont know...I feel lost right now...

 

[ShootingArts]

tough call

Hi!
First I would like to say that I am not sure what I am going to write here as my thoughts are quite confused right now, I will just write them down and something will come out of it....

What I am reading is that you think you need to focus on some tedious drills but you are facing burnout too. If you don't already have them, Joe Villalpando's DVD's will vastly shorten the time needed to tighten up position play. There is another set of DVD's out featuring Mika but I haven't seen those. Another thing that you need to focus on for position play is very precise speed control. I consider cue ball control more important than shot making ability.

Try to find a practice partner you enjoy practicing with to both work on the drills and break up the drills running balls. Start shooting 14.1 if you don't now. I sometimes play myself One Pocket as practice. The same drill over and over makes me crazy. 14.1 lets me work on the same areas but every shot is a little different.

You are going to find it very hard to progress if it involves forcing yourself to do things. You might ease off a little for a few weeks, just playing casual pool or at whatever level involves little stress and then see if you are eager to get back to work.

Hu

 

[Neil]

............

 

[Black-Balled]

Do they not have paragraphs in your country?:grin-square:

 

[LC3]

Marek, are there many players in your area who play at or above your level? If so, you could gain a lot from their example and tips. Finances permitting, you might also consider a trip to a pool school.

 

[sfleinen]

Great stuff

marek:

Fantastic feedback you've received from both Hu (ShootingArts) and Neil here.

One cue ball control drill that I like to work on -- and it's a very difficult (but fun!) drill -- is to put a regular "A"-size (portrait) sheet of blank paper in the center of the table. Throw the balls out on the table in any order, and reposition any that land on that sheet of paper. Next, place the cue ball on the sheet of paper, and shoot the balls in any order you please, but the object is to return the cue ball back to the sheet of paper by any means necessary (e.g. draw/screwback to the sheet of paper, follow to the rail and bounce back to the sheet of paper, stun to the rail and bounce back to the sheet of paper, etc.). You might have to tape the sheet of paper down using some tape, especially if you're using draw/screwback. If you're successful in having that cue ball return to the sheet of paper, shoot another ball with the cue in the position it landed at. Keep score. If you pot a ball, but fail to return the cue ball to the sheet of paper, you don't score anything, and that potted ball returns to the table (any open area you want). Initially, try only a couple of balls, close to the sheet of paper, then spread them out as you get more comfortable with the drill. When you've become accomplished with this drill, try adding more balls. Again, keep track of your score, and try to continually beat your high score.

Trust me on this, this is a *very* challenging drill, and one that will have you have you going "Damn -- I almost did it! Ok, I'm not going to let this defeat me, I'm going to try again!"

P.S.: the purpose for using a sheet of paper in this drill is to prevent laziness. Without it, it's very easy to say to oneself, "well, that's not exactly where I wanted the cue ball, but it'll do, because I still have another shot." With a sheet of paper, the cue ball is either on the paper, or it's not -- no bones about it.

I hope this is helpful,
-Sean

I first want to say congratulations on the national title, and the qualification wins!

You have workded hard to get your game to where it is, and now you seem to be looking for what dividends it will return to you, and the game is coming up short. You aren't going to change that fact. The career of a pool player only offers so much. I don't think any pro does it for what they can get out of it financially. They do it because that is who they are.

You have to have goals. But they also have to be realistic and a little flexible. Winning a tournament is great, but you know that you not only have to play very well, but you have to have a certain amount of luck also. That part you really can't control. That is why lesser players can beat great players now and then. So, if you set yourself on an individual title, you may never achieve it. No matter how good you get. Look at Busty and how many 2nd places he has without winning a certain title. It can get demoralizing if you let it.

Right now you don't have a complete game. You have worked hard to find your stroke. It should be automatic now, and only need tune-up work now and then. Time to move on to another aspect that you are weak in. In your case, that would be position play. How do you get motivated to do what is necessary? What goal can you use? How about this one- tell yourself this- "I am going to learn to play this game to the best of the ability that I can. I'm not going to look at titles, ect. I want to play the best that I can get."

That means constantly improving. A little at a time. You know you can make the shots now. That is important in the game. Now, you need to learn how to make the shots easy shots. That means cb control. You don't have to spend hours and hours each day unless you have a time frame for something. Spend what time you can on a shot until you are getting pretty consistent with it. Then move on to something else in your game when you are getting bored to where the drill is not having any positive effect on you. Later, go back to it, and try and master it.

If you set your goal to master a shot, you won't get bored so fast. Get some tapes, or watch on the internet whenever you can to see how the great players play position. How it should be done. What routes are they taking over and over. Is that the way I would have gone with it??

A lot of position play is involved with the actual stroke. Is your actual stroke there? There is a big difference between being a straight stroker so you can pocket balls, and being a finesse stroker so you can put the cb where you want to.

I would say the first step to learning position is to learn where the cb goes. Once you learn the routes, then you work on the speed to control where you end up on the routes.

This also got long, and somewhat rambling. I hope it helped you at least somewhat.

 

[marek]

1) I consider cue ball control more important than shot making ability.

2) Try to find a practice partner you enjoy practicing with to both work on the drills and break up the drills running balls.

3) Start shooting 14.1 if you don't now. I sometimes play myself One Pocket as practice. The same drill over and over makes me crazy. 14.1 lets me work on the same areas but every shot is a little different.

4) You are going to find it very hard to progress if it involves forcing yourself to do things. You might ease off a little for a few weeks, just playing casual pool or at whatever level involves little stress and then see if you are eager to get back to work.

Hu

1) Well, what is good position good for if you dont pot the ball..but I agree cb control IS very important.
2) Interesting idea, but I practice at home so its not easy for me to practice with someone often enough...
3) 14.1 is a great game and is the one in which I won national title
4) Maybe I just lack energy right now as I worked quite hard in the area other than pool for last few weeks...
Anyway thx for your advice!

 

[marek]

Marek, are there many players in your area who play at or above your level? If so, you could gain a lot from their example and tips. Finances permitting, you might also consider a trip to a pool school.

Well, right now I am considered one of the best in my country (czech republic, europe)...not many players here on the same level not to mention higher....

 

[marek]

marek:

Fantastic feedback you've received from both Hu (ShootingArts) and Neil here.

One cue ball control drill that I like to work on -- and it's a very difficult (but fun!) drill -- is to put a regular "A"-size (portrait) sheet of blank paper in the center of the table. Throw the balls out on the table in any order, and reposition any that land on that sheet of paper. Next, place the cue ball on the sheet of paper, and shoot the balls in any order you please, but the object is to return the cue ball back to the sheet of paper by any means necessary (e.g. draw/screwback to the sheet of paper, follow to the rail and bounce back to the sheet of paper, stun to the rail and bounce back to the sheet of paper, etc.). You might have to tape the sheet of paper down using some tape, especially if you're using draw/screwback. If you're successful in having that cue ball return to the sheet of paper, shoot another ball with the cue in the position it landed at. Keep score. If you pot a ball, but fail to return the cue ball to the sheet of paper, you don't score anything, and that potted ball returns to the table (any open area you want). Initially, try only a couple of balls, close to the sheet of paper, then spread them out as you get more comfortable with the drill. When you've become accomplished with this drill, try adding more balls. Again, keep track of your score, and try to continually beat your high score.

Trust me on this, this is a *very* challenging drill, and one that will have you have you going "Damn -- I almost did it! Ok, I'm not going to let this defeat me, I'm going to try again!"

P.S.: the purpose for using a sheet of paper in this drill is to prevent laziness. Without it, it's very easy to say to oneself, "well, that's not exactly where I wanted the cue ball, but it'll do, because I still have another shot." With a sheet of paper, the cue ball is either on the paper, or it's not -- no bones about it.

I hope this is helpful,
-Sean

Hi Sean! I thought that I have seen/heard about them all...but I didnt knew this exact one, its very interesting drill (and surely very demanding one), I will give it a try for sure. THX!

 

[ShootingArts]

about #1

1) Well, what is good position good for if you dont pot the ball..but I agree cb control IS very important.
2) Interesting idea, but I practice at home so its not easy for me to practice with someone often enough...
3) 14.1 is a great game and is the one in which I won national title
4) Maybe I just lack energy right now as I worked quite hard in the area other than pool for last few weeks...
Anyway thx for your advice!

Pocketing a ball only requires that it goes to one place traveling at a wide range of speed. Controlling the cue ball may require that it hit two, three, or four rails at fairly precise locations and that it is traveling at very close to the exact speed you wanted it to be traveling. If you control the cue ball the vast majority of your shot making isn't needed. I focused 75% on cue ball control and pocketed easy shots the vast majority of the time. Nice to be able to make a tough cut or bank when you need to, nicer still to not need to. I had a strong road player watch me for three nights before deciding I wasn't lucky. That is cue ball control!

As a 14.1 player I am sure you have watched footage of the great players. How often did they shoot a hard shot? Watching Willie Mosconi on a good day I would say the average banger could pocket over nine out of ten shots he pocketed. The shape was what it was all about.

Hu

 

[marek]

1) I first want to say congratulations on the national title, and the qualification wins!

2) You have workded hard to get your game to where it is, and now you seem to be looking for what dividends it will return to you, and the game is coming up short. You aren't going to change that fact. The career of a pool player only offers so much. I don't think any pro does it for what they can get out of it financially. They do it because that is who they are.

3) You have to have goals. But they also have to be realistic and a little flexible. Winning a tournament is great, but you know that you not only have to play very well, but you have to have a certain amount of luck also. That part you really can't control. That is why lesser players can beat great players now and then. So, if you set yourself on an individual title, you may never achieve it. No matter how good you get. Look at Busty and how many 2nd places he has without winning a certain title. It can get demoralizing if you let it.

4) Right now you don't have a complete game. You have worked hard to find your stroke. It should be automatic now, and only need tune-up work now and then. Time to move on to another aspect that you are weak in. In your case, that would be position play. How do you get motivated to do what is necessary? What goal can you use? How about this one- tell yourself this- "I am going to learn to play this game to the best of the ability that I can. I'm not going to look at titles, ect. I want to play the best that I can get."

5) That means constantly improving. A little at a time. You know you can make the shots now. That is important in the game. Now, you need to learn how to make the shots easy shots. That means cb control. You don't have to spend hours and hours each day unless you have a time frame for something. Spend what time you can on a shot until you are getting pretty consistent with it. Then move on to something else in your game when you are getting bored to where the drill is not having any positive effect on you. Later, go back to it, and try and master it.

6) If you set your goal to master a shot, you won't get bored so fast. Get some tapes, or watch on the internet whenever you can to see how the great players play position. How it should be done. What routes are they taking over and over. Is that the way I would have gone with it??

7) A lot of position play is involved with the actual stroke. Is your actual stroke there? There is a big difference between being a straight stroker so you can pocket balls, and being a finesse stroker so you can put the cb where you want to.

8) I would say the first step to learning position is to learn where the cb goes. Once you learn the routes, then you work on the speed to control where you end up on the routes.

9) This also got long, and somewhat rambling. I hope it helped you at least somewhat.

1) Thx, I worked really hard for that which made the reward supersweet.
2) I know I wont become rich from playing pool! Its just that I got to some destination and the next stop is SOOO far. But maybe its all about the journey...
3) I couldnt agree more, I decided 3 years ago that I would try to work on my game regardless my results...and maybe as I arrived to the place where my fundamentals work my eyes turned to the results again - and thats a mistake, you made me realize that - thank you!
4) My position game is not THAT bad, you see, I definitelly know what cb is doing, its just not as precise as it is needed at the pro level ..and it is definitelly the goal I should strive for...
5) Well, I dont get bored by those drills, I just dont like them! Maybe I just get too frustrated playing them due to my expectations...probably I should go little easier on myself...
6) Watching videos of great players is definitelly great way to learn pattern play, I have even done some pool related commentary to local cabel TV (world pool championship, world pool masters, etc) which helped my game a lot. Mastering some shot or postition play as a goal may be fun, I will try it.
7) Well my stroke is definitelly there right now, so I should stop messing around with it and start practicing drills rigorously...
8) My cb routes are quite good with occasional weakness here and there, I thing its the easier part but my speed control may be the part of my game which abandons me most often..
9) You definitelly helped me to sort my thoughts, THX Neil!

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[marek]

Pocketing a ball only requires that it goes to one place traveling at a wide range of speed. Controlling the cue ball may require that it hit two, three, or four rails at fairly precise locations and that it is traveling at very close to the exact speed you wanted it to be traveling. If you control the cue ball the vast majority of your shot making isn't needed. I focused 75% on cue ball control and pocketed easy shots the vast majority of the time. Nice to be able to make a tough cut or bank when you need to, nicer still to not need to. I had a strong road player watch me for three nights before deciding I wasn't lucky. That is cue ball control!

As a 14.1 player I am sure you have watched footage of the great players. How often did they shoot a hard shot? Watching Willie Mosconi on a good day I would say the average banger could pocket over nine out of ten shots he pocketed. The shape was what it was all about.

Hu

You got me probably little wrong, I definitelly know how important CB control is, I just dont agree that it is more important than potting, first things first, you have to learn how to walk (shooting) before you can run (position play).
FYI my high run in 14.1 is 122 but I had to pot like 5-6 crazy shots during this run, it was just about that night that I couldnt miss. It wasnt proper 14.1 if you ask me, it was more of a trickshot exhibition. My second highest run is 85 and I like that one much more because I didnt have to play single hard shot during the whole run - good shot selection, good position play - so I think I got your point.

 

[marek]

That is a good drill. Years ago, Kim Davenport invented and marketed a game called Target Pool. It's very hard to find anymore. But essentially, it had a booklet with different shots in it. Even bank shots. You had a target which was a cloth with a bullseye on it. Each ring in the bullseye was a different number of points. The idea was to make the shot, and then get the cb to the center of the bullseye. He had his score shown for you to compare to. You can make your own game just as easily, and it will give you a feedback on your scores improvement.

Sometimes the shot is a one rail position. Then the next one could be the same shot with a 2 or 3 rail position.

Its similar game to what I play from time to time. Only I use sheet of paper throwing it randomly before each shot on the table as a target for cb position.

 

[JoeyA]

For the first time, I have read all of the other posts before making my post. You received a lot of good advice.

I think the bigger problem for you is not how to improve your shape skills but whether or not you want to continue on the journey.

If you are the best player in the Czech Republic, perhaps you should see if the government or some sponsor is interested in cultivating some national pride by sponsoring you in International competition. Talk to your local politicians and see if there is such a thing as a grant that might be available for a two year period.

Private enterprise is often the best source for these kind of things. To be the shining star of a country is a special honor and many private individuals with money to spare might want to be your philanthropist.

It is always great to hear the competitive nature of others like yourself and I empathize with your internal debate. When your friends or acquaintances tell you it is impossible or stupid to continue, simply understand that it is impossible or stupid FOR THEM to comprehend your journey. They cannot know what is in your heart and spirit. You have been called to the green felt jungle. It is now left up to you to decide if and how you will survive.

Hu's remarks about www.pooliq.net and Joe's videos are on the mark.

Keep in touch and let us know what you decide and where you go from here.

Thanks and congratulations on your fine achievements to date!

JoeyA

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[marek]

For the first time, I have read all of the other posts before making my post. You received a lot of good advice.

I think the bigger problem for you is not how to improve your shape skills but whether or not you want to continue on the journey.

If you are the best player in the Czech Republic, perhaps you should see if the government or some sponsor is interested in cultivating some national pride by sponsoring you in International competition. Talk to your local politicians and see if there is such a thing as a grant that might be available for a two year period.

Private enterprise is often the best source for these kind of things. To be the shining star of a country is a special honor and many private individuals with money to spare might want to be your philanthropist.

It is always great to hear the competitive nature of others like yourself and I empathize with your internal debate. When your friends or acquaintances tell you it is impossible or stupid to continue, simply understand that it is impossible or stupid FOR THEM to comprehend your journey. They cannot know what is in your heart and spirit. You have been called to the green felt jungle. It is now left up to you to decide if and how you will survive.

Hu's remarks about www.pooliq.net and Joe's videos are on the mark.

Keep in touch and let us know what you decide and where you go from here.

Thanks and congratulations on your fine achievements to date!

JoeyA

Hi JoeyA!
You are the first one who understood fully my internal struggle. But the words of the others have already reignited that fire inside of me, so I will definitelly go the "hard way"..sometimes few words can make wonders As of getting sponsorship - global economic crysis make it quite hard for everyone here, its not quite real right now..but maybe in the future, I will hang in there to see better days and maybe the sponsorship will get more real....
As for those nay-sayers - I use them as a part of my motivation - I want to prove them wrong...but sometimes its more of a burden I have put on myself..maybe I should forget about them at all...

 

[marek]

One other thing I want to add on position play, and it may or may not apply to you Marek, but will apply to many on here. When playing position, NEVER look at where the next ball is as the last thing you look at before shooting. Instead, look at where you want the cb to end up. Your subconscious plays a huge role in position play. And, if the next ball is what you looked at last, you just programmed your mind to end up there. That is why so often when you see someone play three rails coming around and end of the table for a shot near the spot, they end up even with the ball instead of having an angle on it. They think they were off on speed, but they actually put the cb right where they looked.

Not sure if I am guilty of this, will definitelly remember that...

 

[sfleinen]

Hi Sean! I thought that I have seen/heard about them all...but I didnt knew this exact one, its very interesting drill (and surely very demanding one), I will give it a try for sure. THX!

You're very welcome, marek. One of the things I like about this drill -- and about Kim Davenport's game, which I didn't even know existed but you bet I'm going to hunt for it(!) -- is that it builds and instills a "center of the table" mentality. Which, given the fact there's no better spot for the cue ball at the time, is always a good place to end up. Especially in straight pool!

Thanks Neil, for the tip about Kim Davenport's game "Target Pool." I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't know it existed, and Kim's one of my favorite players! (Sidenote: does anyone else besides me think that Kim is a dead-ringer for the actor Sam Elliott -- appearance, voice, mannerisms, and all?)

-Sean

 

[JoeyA]

Hi JoeyA!
You are the first one who understood fully my internal struggle. But the words of the others have already reignited that fire inside of me, so I will definitelly go the "hard way"..sometimes few words can make wonders As of getting sponsorship - global economic crysis make it quite hard for everyone here, its not quite real right now..but maybe in the future, I will hang in there to see better days and maybe the sponsorship will get more real....
As for those nay-sayers - I use them as a part of my motivation - I want to prove them wrong...but sometimes its more of a burden I have put on myself..maybe I should forget about them at all...

Marek,
Please check your PM (Private Message). They can be accessed by going to USER CP (which is User Control Panel), then clicking on Private Message on the far upper right side of the screen.

You may develop a marketing plan for yourself because a sponsor is not likely to come knocking on your door. It is but another leg of the journey that you are on. Soliciting a sponsor and keeping one is a practical and responsible goal to have as a professional player. Sometimes, professional players need a marketing person to fan the flames of sponsors who are looking for good representatives for their products and services. There may be someone in your group who would start the effort and give you some direction. I fear that your journey will be limited if you do not acquire some type of sponsorship in the future.

Never forget about the naysayers. Always remember them when you succeed at each subsequent goal. No need to throw it into their face. They will just shake their heads, marvel and not even remember how wrong they were. It is but another type of fuel for your fire and one that is easily replenished as there will always be those who prefer to pontificate about what you should or should not do and they are the very ones who wouldn't dare step forward into even one of your shoes, even for a minute, because they do not possess what you so surely do; and they feel that if by holding you back, they somehow will make progress in their own trivial pursuit and feel better about themselves.

Thanks,
JoeyA