Okay, someone send me a complimentary cnc machine so I can test these theories
cnc machine
- Thread starter zx24
- Start date
Using the right tool for the job is what's at issue here. You shouldn't use any router for precision inlay work, they weren't made for that. Nor would you use an ultra accurate spindle to cut v-grooves.
I agree that we should use the right tool. But how accurate does it have to be? Is .0003" vs .001" a big enough deal to spend $7000 on a spindle like one cuemaker I know did, when a $100 laminate trimmer only runs out .0007" more?
good advice
I appreciate all the input from everyone about cnc equipment..As you all know I am a newcomer to cue making and still learning the basic stuff..I was advised to hang tight with what equipment i have and learn to use it properly and hone my cue building skills...After a year if i'm still making cues, then make the investment on a CNC machine..Its aggravating enough right now just learning the basic cue making skills..I really dont need the aggravation of trying to learn the cnc too...I believd it was good advice..
thanks
Max
I appreciate all the input from everyone about cnc equipment..As you all know I am a newcomer to cue making and still learning the basic stuff..I was advised to hang tight with what equipment i have and learn to use it properly and hone my cue building skills...After a year if i'm still making cues, then make the investment on a CNC machine..Its aggravating enough right now just learning the basic cue making skills..I really dont need the aggravation of trying to learn the cnc too...I believd it was good advice..
thanks
Max
Here's another reason. Unless you want to use gigantic cutters all the time, you need higher rpms and less runout than the routers provide. You cannot use a .010" cutter in the Kress or PC Router without breaking lots of bits.
According to the ad on the Wolfgang spindle, you can use .005" cutters. I cannot with mine. I use .010's regularly though.
I want to be able to use some smaller cutters for some things. I want all my parts and pockets perfect, not just close. For that reason, I'll be spending thousands on a spindle for my new machine. There's obviously more to the machine than just the spindle, but the machine is only as good as it's weakest part.
Very good points. We use .020" bits as our smallest bit and then knife in the corners instead of cutting little outer radiuses with small bits. It takes more hand work that way, but gives perfectly sharp corners. I have not tried the .010" bits. But I must admit that on the Ivory Scepter cue we broke about 20 of the .020" bits. That was alot of $$ lost in bits. So a expensive spindle might pay for itself in time with less broken bits. I considered using the Wolfgang spindles on my inlay machines, but he always made one at a time and they were usually different and he could not keep the same motor all the time, so unless he could make it the same every time I could not use them on the inlay machines I build. Maybe I should try one on my personal machine.
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I do most of my points with a .0156 cutter and clean them up with a knife. The .010's come in handy for inlays inside of inlays and I've also done some pockets that a .020" or a .0156" cutter will not fit.
When I built Tikkler's first cue, I broke over $300 in bits. When I did the rebuild of it, I don't think I broke any bits on two cues.
A few days ago, I was doing the Ivory Bottom for that Ironwood Cue. It has a Silver Notched Diamond bordered with a .008" Ebony Notched Diamond. I use a .010" cutter for the notches and I broke one. I had a box with 13 more bits in it. I opened the box and the latch got caught on something and I dumped them all out. 9 of them broke. That's a lot of money in cutters that I never even got to use.
When I built Tikkler's first cue, I broke over $300 in bits. When I did the rebuild of it, I don't think I broke any bits on two cues.
A few days ago, I was doing the Ivory Bottom for that Ironwood Cue. It has a Silver Notched Diamond bordered with a .008" Ebony Notched Diamond. I use a .010" cutter for the notches and I broke one. I had a box with 13 more bits in it. I opened the box and the latch got caught on something and I dumped them all out. 9 of them broke. That's a lot of money in cutters that I never even got to use.
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I agree with Toney, the better your equipement the smaller you can go. If you are not using any bits smaller than 1/32 a Kress or PC will work ok. I have owned both and prefer the Kress. The Kress is a good all around spindle. When you get into smaller detail on the inlays you will want a better and faster spindlle and a better cnc machine. I have seen some of the work Tony has posted on here and am very impressed with his work done on this taig.
Jim
I will have to agree with Tony here also. I upgraded my cnc to a Wolfgang as well. Really helped in the accuracy of the machine. I was using a Dremel as my spindle and was breaking bits regularly.
Just to much play in the Dremel. As stated, they are ok with larger bits, but once you go below .032 , you are at risk for snapping them.
I would recommend the Wolfgang for it's accuracy. It is very nice to cut the pocket, then the part, and have then fit very nicely.
I hand built my machine as stated, so it is all a learning curve and test trial. But I have finally found the set up with the Wolfgang Spindle I am very happy with. Plus the new Wolfgang Spindles have a double pulley system that I really like. I feel even on the pre made machines like the Storrn, Breeze, Taig mills, this spindle for the price range, is well worth the money to upgrade them.
Just my 2 cents and experience.
Just to much play in the Dremel. As stated, they are ok with larger bits, but once you go below .032 , you are at risk for snapping them.
I would recommend the Wolfgang for it's accuracy. It is very nice to cut the pocket, then the part, and have then fit very nicely.
I hand built my machine as stated, so it is all a learning curve and test trial. But I have finally found the set up with the Wolfgang Spindle I am very happy with. Plus the new Wolfgang Spindles have a double pulley system that I really like. I feel even on the pre made machines like the Storrn, Breeze, Taig mills, this spindle for the price range, is well worth the money to upgrade them.
Just my 2 cents and experience.
I guess this thread got a bit off topic here, so I'll just say that the Taig / Breeze is a decent machine, especially if you're just starting out. With no CNC knowledge, I wouldn't advise spending $15-$20,000 on a high end machine unless you have money to burn.
You will probably eventually outgrow the Taig, but when you upgrade from there, you will have a better idea what you want. Depending on the cues you end up building, you may not need to spend as much as some.
You could also keep the Taig for doing points or ring billets or something. Some have suggested I keep the Taig for cutting parts. That may work if you need a part in an emergency and don't want to take the cue from the machine, but I prefer to cut my parts with the same machine I cut my pockets with.
You will also have no problem selling the Taig if you choose to do so. I have received three emails or phone calls already asking to buy mine and that was before I even mentioned on the forums I was going to be ordering a new machine.
You will probably eventually outgrow the Taig, but when you upgrade from there, you will have a better idea what you want. Depending on the cues you end up building, you may not need to spend as much as some.
You could also keep the Taig for doing points or ring billets or something. Some have suggested I keep the Taig for cutting parts. That may work if you need a part in an emergency and don't want to take the cue from the machine, but I prefer to cut my parts with the same machine I cut my pockets with.
You will also have no problem selling the Taig if you choose to do so. I have received three emails or phone calls already asking to buy mine and that was before I even mentioned on the forums I was going to be ordering a new machine.
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for cnc-cuemakers:
what resolution has your cnc machine?
what resolution has your cnc machine?
Depends on software and micro-stepping. Mine is four decimal places to the right of the decimal point, .0001. This doesn't mean that your cut or equipment is that accurate though. You could probably go much finer with very expensive equipment but then you get into material and component expansion from heat and friction and such. The three things you look for in CNC is:
1. Resolution = what the software and equipment is capable of potentially being set at.
2. Accuracy = how close the final cut is to the resolution that was set.
3. Repeatability = how closely the cuts are to each other time after time.
Dick
It is SOLD!
Thanks for a great deal.
How about this one?
Would this be a good starter machine, or would a taig based unit be a better choice for a beginner?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pool-Cue-CNC-machine-router-mill-inlay-cnc-router_W0QQitemZ170394333386QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ac4b30ca
Would this be a good starter machine, or would a taig based unit be a better choice for a beginner?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pool-Cue-CNC-machine-router-mill-inlay-cnc-router_W0QQitemZ170394333386QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ac4b30ca
Provided that machine really has zero backlash I would say it would be the better way to go than the Taig. But it probably won't cut metal parts as good as the Taig. You are still going to have to buy software to run it. So I still think for a couple thousand dollars more a Donald Bludworth machine would be a better bet. I am told a machine like I bought from Mason would cost $8500 brand new and has the software and some training included.
I seriously doubt that machine has 0 backlash. I am buying a similar machine from them and I am paying a lot of extra money to achieve almost 0 backlash. The machine I'm getting is more than double the cost of that and then I still have to buy the spindle.
However, I would bet that this is going to be better for you than the Taig in the long run and will be easier to upgrade down the road. Keep in mind, if you buy one of their machines off Ebay, they are basically sold as is and you are going to get almost no help from them if you have problems with it (Even if that's not what they tell you).
However, I would bet that this is going to be better for you than the Taig in the long run and will be easier to upgrade down the road. Keep in mind, if you buy one of their machines off Ebay, they are basically sold as is and you are going to get almost no help from them if you have problems with it (Even if that's not what they tell you).
That is what I figured would be the case, that is why I was pointing Max toward a Bludworth.
Let us know how that works out Tony.
I think ballscrews are the way to go as long as they are protected from dust.