Who is really responsible for the quality of Asian Import Cues

[bdcues]

Polymer Filtration Industries

Engaged in manufacturing and exporting of automobile adhesives like thermostatic single component adhesives, cold setting two component adhesives, rubber based adhesives, water resistant adhesives, heat resistant adhesive and acrylic adhesives.
Address: 12/6, Mathura Road, Faridabad, Haryana - 121 003, India
Phone: +(91)-(129)-4155501 Fax: +(91)-(129)-4155502
Mobile / Cell Phone: +(91)-9810270611
Website: http://www.indiamart.com/polymergroupltd/industrial-filters.html
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John,

I would have to assume that if they make thermostatic single component adhesives that they also can make non-thermostatic adhesives.

Bob

 

[greyghost]

What model Huebler do you have, I love Paul's work I have known him personally since the 1970's. In fact I, grew up in Missouri and I sold his cues until production ceased not long ago. But, based on your requirements for shafts I can see why you are using a different shaft on your Huebler. Paul's shaft's were generally a little over 13mm and they had a stiffer consonant taper.

Oh and by the way Ghost, I am not trying to sell anything in this thread unlike others, I am only looking for views, thanks very much for your's.

Take Care Ghost, watch out for the Propaganda Minister he always has something for sale!!!:thumbup:

I've always loved his cues also. Also I do use Paul's shafts on both cues, and both are 13mm. Tho I do prefer other shafts...both are still very good shafts. Both of the cues were gifts to me, I have been trying to get more info on them...mostly the custom McGillicuddy Pepermint Schnapps cue. The company logo is scrimshawed into ivory. The 4 pointer with the ivory is only wax coated. Both of these cues play GREAT, very solid hit. If you have any info on the cues I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Grey Ghost

Wish I had better pics for ya, but my web cam on the mac is the only one I got for now.

 

[greyghost]

better pics of the butt sleeve

 

[manwon]

Polymer Filtration Industries

Engaged in manufacturing and exporting of automobile adhesives like thermostatic single component adhesives, cold setting two component adhesives, rubber based adhesives, water resistant adhesives, heat resistant adhesive and acrylic adhesives.
Address: 12/6, Mathura Road, Faridabad, Haryana - 121 003, India
Phone: +(91)-(129)-4155501 Fax: +(91)-(129)-4155502
Mobile / Cell Phone: +(91)-9810270611
Website: http://www.indiamart.com/polymergroupltd/industrial-filters.html
Send Trade Enquiry Now

John,

I would have to assume that if they make thermostatic single component adhesives that they also can make non-thermostatic adhesives.

Bob

Thanks very much Bob, for your comments throughout this thread, although I suspect that they have fallen upon deaf ears. I could have also posted similar sites, however, I preferred to allow Mr. Barton to continue looking foolish because of his personal attacks upon me. You see others have sent me Pm's regarding the comments I made concerning these adhesives. I sent them website information regarding these materials and for a couple of days now people have been laughing at John every time he made one of his ill informed comments. I know it is kinda mean and some may say uncalled for but, like you said yourself, he certainly does look like a propaganda Minister and he has no one to blame for this but himself.

I am certain that you and anyone else who does repairs on these import cues has seen the Crappy Adhesives they use on wrap that never fully dries. This is what my comments were directed toward, but on the bright side is the fact that anyone who leaves their import cue in a car on a hot day runs the risk of having to have their cue re-wrapped because this high quality product releases the linen and all cue repairman make a few dollars

Thanks again for your comments in this thread.

 

[manwon]

Thanks to all who have posted in this thread, and I apologize for the behavior of Mr. Barton, please do not judge Sterling Billiards by the actions of this man. I seriously doubt they are aware of his actions on this forum. When they are made aware of how he represents himself and their organization I certainly do not think that they will allow him to continue to use and soil their name publicly with his Obsessive compulsive behavior.

I think the real shame in all that has been brought up during these threads on Import Cues is that much of the information is very useful from a quality control stand point. Since many of these companies do not have a full time repair facility or any repair facility here in USA, and they mainly replace cues in place of repairing them. They do not ever really correct what caused the problems in the first place, especially when people like John spout Nonsense instead of taking the time to see that the problems do exist.

Again thanks to all.

 

[manwon]

I've always loved his cues also. Also I do use Paul's shafts on both cues, and both are 13mm. Tho I do prefer other shafts...both are still very good shafts. Both of the cues were gifts to me, I have been trying to get more info on them...mostly the custom McGillicuddy Pepermint Schnapps cue. The company logo is scrimshawed into ivory. The 4 pointer with the ivory is only wax coated. Both of these cues play GREAT, very solid hit. If you have any info on the cues I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Grey Ghost

Wish I had better pics for ya, but my web cam on the mac is the only one I got for now.

The Four point cue is an AS-H8 and these cues were still being produced as late as April 2003, maybe later. The original wholesale price for the cue with a single shaft was $367.61 and the retail price was $715.23, extra shafts cost $96.50. The other cue I can not help you with, Paul maded many such advertizing cues for companies, Pool Tournament, and even pool halls like Clicks in Texas.

Thanks for you comments during this thread, and have a great day.

 

[manwon]

Better people than you have tried to shut me up with this line of reasoning. Scott Taylor, the owner of Sterling Gaming, is my friend as well as my boss and he has more integrity in his toe than you do in your entire body.

When you seek to malign my company as you have done repeatedly throughout many threads on here then you can bet your ass that I will REPRESENT for my company and set you and the record straight.

You can continue to dodge direct questions and make your innuendos and illogical assumptions and I will continue to correct you every time I see you do it.

I notice that you have NO ANSWER as usual for the facts I have laid out regarding your topic nor any rebuttal for the comparison between J&J and Sterling Gaming where you tried to knock Sterling and were soundly rebuffed.

So, if "childish" to you means any time someone corrects then they are being childish then I am happy to be a kid. Better an honest kid than a lying hypocrite like you are being on this forum.

John, you really need to relax, first of all, show me and the entire forum where I personal accused Sterling Billiards of not taking care of their customers. In addition John, please show me and the forum where I stated that Sterling Billiards Specifically has crappy products, because I have never stated that to anyone on this forum in any thread. John, like others have pointed out you certainly are the Minister of Propaganda. You take what others say and intentionally change the intent so that you can use it as a tool to destroy the credibility of everyone you disagree with. Anyone who reads this and other threads like it can clearly see your Obsessive Compulsive nature.

I truly feel sorry for you John, you are fooling no one, only yourself and even when others try and interject helpful advice you are unable to slow down for second and focus long enough to see it, or appreciate it.

I wish you well John, I hope you find what you need to find peace.

 

[measureman]

This is getting boring and could you guys just make nice and stop.

 

[John Barton]

I only say that if an employee of mine was saying things about people, using my company as a backdrop, that I would fire their arse. Hope you have a wonderful life, John.
As for feeling that I should now defend myself against what you have written - sorry John, no such luck. What little respect some had for you in the beginning is eroding. That you have some valid points is not the issue but you fail to comprehend that. By writing Craig Rettel, Craig Rettel, Craig Rettel or Bob Danielson, Bob Danielson over and over makes you look like the propogandist that your title says you are. You want to make Craig look bad and want to be sure that everyone remembers his name, something like Hoover did back when. Most people agree with the basics of what you are saying but what they will remember is how you said it, not the messege itself. So I feel sad for you and sadder for the nice family that you work for and once again ask the mods to close this tread as it's useful function is long past. You are free to open any post you like, as you already have, without fear of censorship on my part and regardless of you intent.

Don't pretend you had any respect for me ever.

Your first posts in response to me were attacking. You didn't bother to attempt to discuss anything.

Thank you SOME kind of link to something called Thermostatic Adhesive. Now do cue makers use the products from this company and how exactly does the adhesive maintain a constant temperature?

I will send an email to the company you linked to and ask them exactly how there glue works and if they have ever sold to cue makers.

All I have ever asked anyone to do is to back up their statements. I will be glad to take back what I said about Craig's comments once we determine what kind of glue Thermostatic Adhesive is and whether it's used on cues or not. Then the next question to tackle is Craig's assertion that Chinese cues makers do not use it and that it breaks down in 80 degree weather.

As for my comments about your cue making I bet you will care more when I do in every section on the board like Craig does.

Eventually some people would come to believe that your cues are terrible based on my comments even though I have never played with one. That's my whole point. I don't think people should have the right to say things that they cannot know as if it's the truth without others having the right to rebut them.

As for my tone, well that's just me, I am sorry that I can't be nicer. I have tried to engage Craig in NORMAL conversation over the things he says that are not factual and instead of having a normal conversation he resorts to dodging and insults and even more innuendo and outright lies about me and my company then I get a little hot over it.

Lastly, to address your comment about how you would fire me if I worked for you; Well first I would never work for someone like you. If we ever did work together then you would work for me and honestly if you came to work with the same defeated attitude you show here then you would not last long in my employ.

Everyone who has ever worked for me is taught to overcome obstacles and meet challenges.

So instead of sitting around and whining about the competition we get busy and figure out ways to stay in front and be leaders in our field.

Craig Rittel posed the question at the beginning of this thread, "Who is responsible for the quality of import cues?" We are. We don't dodge it, we stand behind the cues we sell 100% and for me personally, I feel confident enough to put $1300 Chinese cues on the market and look my customers in the eye a year down the road with confidence that I sold them a great product.

 

[rackem]

Has not Falcon has been doing that for years.

 

[John Barton]

. Since many of these companies do not have a full time repair facility or any repair facility here in USA, and they mainly replace cues in place of repairing them. They do not ever really correct what caused the problems in the first place, especially when people like John spout Nonsense instead of taking the time to see that the problems do exist.

Again thanks to all.

You see THIS is exactly what I am talking about.

You make a statement that is not true and one that is OBVIOUSLY easy for you to see that it is not true.

How long have you been in this business?

Every one of us that has been in this business for 20 years has seen steady improvement in the cues coming from China.

If the problems were never corrected then the cues would still be the same quality level that they were 20 years ago.

What makes you think that ALL the importers don't complain about whatever problems have shown up in cues these past 20 years and have demanded that they be corrected?

People like Bill Stroud, and other well known cue makers have consulted with the top factories in China and taught them what they need to know in order to build good cues.

One of the reasons I am here in China on Sterling's behalf IS to correct any problems we have with cues and other products we sell.

Why do you continue to make statements you cannot support?

 

[manwon]

You see THIS is exactly what I am talking about.

You make a statement that is not true and one that is OBVIOUSLY easy for you to see that it is not true.

How long have you been in this business?

Every one of us that has been in this business for 20 years has seen steady improvement in the cues coming from China.

If the problems were never corrected then the cues would still be the same quality level that they were 20 years ago.

What makes you think that ALL the importers don't complain about whatever problems have shown up in cues these past 20 years and have demanded that they be corrected?

People like Bill Stroud, and other well known cue makers have consulted with the top factories in China and taught them what they need to know in order to build good cues.

One of the reasons I am here in China on Sterling's behalf IS to correct any problems we have with cues and other products we sell.

Why do you continue to make statements you cannot support?

John, every cue maker on this board knows exactly what I talking about, why are you in the dark, and why do you clain it is not true, I really don't get it John?

Does Sterling have a Full Time Repair Facility or do they just replace damaged cue's John?

 

[bdcues]

John,

If you think I have a defeated attitude and that my first posts to you were attacks than I suggest you go back and read them again. I have also told you several times that you made some good points. If you wish to make threats against me go right ahead. But don't underestimate what you think is my defeatist attitude.

Bob Danielson

 

[John Barton]

John, every cue maker on this board knows exactly what I talking about, why are you in the dark, and why do you clain it is not true, I really don't get it John?

Does Sterling have a Full Time Repair Facility or do they just replace damaged cue's John?

Again you managed to dodge the part of your comment that I was refuting:

Let me repeat it for you so that there is no misunderstanding:

You said, "They do not ever really correct what caused the problems in the first place, especially when people like John spout Nonsense instead of taking the time to see that the problems do exist."

So let me answer this AGAIN in simple terms,

A. "We" (meaning the importer and the cue manufacturer) do correct the problems so that they do not continue to be problems.

B. People "like John" are here in China to address any problems and correct them. In fact as far as I know, Sterling Gaming is the only major cue distributor who employs a full time quality control and product development office in China.

And to show you how easy it is to ANSWER A DIRECT QUESTION, you asked, "Does Sterling have a Full Time Repair Facility or do they just replace damaged cue's John?"

No, Sterling does not have an in-house full time repair facility. If a cue comes in that has an issue then it is either repaired or replaced at our discretion. The repair is done by qualified cue repair people around Charlotte. We also sometimes contract out with repair people around the country to repair our cues so that the customer can take their cue to their local repairman and we pay for it. Similar to what automakers do for PRIVATELY owned authorized repair shops.

So I don't really know what your point is here. Who cares how the customer gets serviced? If you send a cue back to Viking and they elect to replace it rather than repair it what's the difference?

 

[John Barton]

John,

If you think I have a defeated attitude and that my first posts to you were attacks than I suggest you go back and read them again. I have also told you several times that you made some good points. If you wish to make threats against me go right ahead. But don't underestimate what you think is my defeatist attitude.

Bob Danielson

Threats? I have made no threat in any way shape or form against you.

Yes Bob, you have a defeated attitude. Instead of focusing on all the positive things that come with being an independent small cue maker you choose instead to cry wolf over what you seem to think is impending doom for small cue makers because of imports.

And despite your negativity there is still the fact that cue making has grown in the USA over the past 20 years. There are now more small independent cue makers than ever before, more people doing repairs than ever before, and no major cue factory has gone out of business.

Sounds like you are threatening me though. If you want to bow up and be a man when you think I am threatening you then bow up and be a man when you think your livelihood is threatened by mass production cues (both domestic and foreign) - do what it takes to get out there and sell more. Or you can sit on your computer and whine. Your choice.

P.S. I don't need you to tell me that I made some good points, I know I made good points because I have the truth to back me up. Everything I have said about our business and the way our cues are made can be proven easily. There's that tone again that you confuse with arrogance. Let me remind you of a timeless saying, "it ain't braggin if you can do it."

 

[manwon]

Threats? I have made no threat in any way shape or form against you.

Yes Bob, you have a defeated attitude. Instead of focusing on all the positive things that come with being an independent small cue maker you choose instead to cry wolf over what you seem to think is impending doom for small cue makers because of imports.

And despite your negativity there is still the fact that cue making has grown in the USA over the past 20 years. There are now more small independent cue makers than ever before, more people doing repairs than ever before, and no major cue factory has gone out of business.

Sounds like you are threatening me though. If you want to bow up and be a man when you think I am threatening you then bow up and be a man when you think your livelihood is threatened by mass production cues (both domestic and foreign) - do what it takes to get out there and sell more. Or you can sit on your computer and whine. Your choice.

P.S. I don't need you to tell me that I made some good points, I know I made good points because I have the truth to back me up. Everything I have said about our business and the way our cues are made can be proven easily. There's that tone again that you confuse with arrogance. Let me remind you of a timeless saying, "it ain't braggin if you can do it."

Mr. Barton, you are not welcome in this thread until you can act in a Civil Manner. You need to stop attacking everyone who doesn't see things through you eye's. If the truth is known there are more than likely no Cue Makers big or small that will support your side of these arguments. The only reason more have not posted comments to thread's that you are involved in is because they do not want to have their PM Box filed up with your emails attacking their views.

You have gone over the boarder and you don't even understand how far out of touch you are. I doubt seriously that you would even like what the rest of this forum sees through your posts.

Take a step back John, you are really way out of line and an embarrassment to all you have accomplished.!:frown:

 

[manwon]

Again you managed to dodge the part of your comment that I was refuting:

Let me repeat it for you so that there is no misunderstanding:

You said, "They do not ever really correct what caused the problems in the first place, especially when people like John spout Nonsense instead of taking the time to see that the problems do exist."

So let me answer this AGAIN in simple terms,

A. "We" (meaning the importer and the cue manufacturer) do correct the problems so that they do not continue to be problems.

B. People "like John" are here in China to address any problems and correct them. In fact as far as I know, Sterling Gaming is the only major cue distributor who employs a full time quality control and product development office in China.

And to show you how easy it is to ANSWER A DIRECT QUESTION, you asked, "Does Sterling have a Full Time Repair Facility or do they just replace damaged cue's John?"

No, Sterling does not have an in-house full time repair facility. If a cue comes in that has an issue then it is either repaired or replaced at our discretion. The repair is done by qualified cue repair people around Charlotte. We also sometimes contract out with repair people around the country to repair our cues so that the customer can take their cue to their local repairman and we pay for it. Similar to what automakers do for PRIVATELY owned authorized repair shops.

So I don't really know what your point is here. Who cares how the customer gets serviced? If you send a cue back to Viking and they elect to replace it rather than repair it what's the difference?

No, Sterling does not have an in-house full time repair facility. If a cue comes in that has an issue then it is either repaired or replaced at our discretion. The repair is done by qualified cue repair people around Charlotte. We also sometimes contract out with repair people around the country to repair our cues so that the customer can take their cue to their local repairman and we pay for it. Similar to what automakers do for PRIVATELY owned authorized repair shops.

So I don't really know what your point is here. Who cares how the customer gets serviced? If you send a cue back to Viking and they elect to replace it rather than repair it what's the difference?

John, first let me say thanks for your response, it was certainly civil, and next thanks for being honest. If Sterling is not doing repairs, and the customer can take the cue to local repairman their are also not getting a clear picture what caused the problem and what is necessary to correct it in the future. John, I have never said that you are no an intelligent man, but your area of experience is mainly centered around cases. It is obvious by your posts alone your knowledge of cues is limited.

So you see John you answer a question, and I answer your question. You see John the question you were asking is directly linked to the response you gave.

I hope that clears things up for you, and please continue to be civil.

 

[bdcues]

Quote from John - "As for my comments about your cue making I bet you will care more when I do in every section on the board like Craig does."


Sounds like a threat to me, John.

 

[John Barton]

Quote from John - "As for my comments about your cue making I bet you will care more when I do in every section on the board like Craig does."


Sounds like a threat to me, John.

It's not - it was a point. Let me rephrase it for you so that you can understand it a little better.


As for my comments about your cue making I bet you will care more when someone makes untrue negative statements about the quality of your cues in every section on the board like Craig does about a lot of the subjects he posts about.

And by your response I see that I was 100% right. You would care a lot if someone were to start making baseless and untrue comments about YOUR cues.

 

[John Barton]

No, Sterling does not have an in-house full time repair facility. If a cue comes in that has an issue then it is either repaired or replaced at our discretion. The repair is done by qualified cue repair people around Charlotte. We also sometimes contract out with repair people around the country to repair our cues so that the customer can take their cue to their local repairman and we pay for it. Similar to what automakers do for PRIVATELY owned authorized repair shops.

So I don't really know what your point is here. Who cares how the customer gets serviced? If you send a cue back to Viking and they elect to replace it rather than repair it what's the difference?

John, first let me say thanks for your response, it was certainly civil, and next thanks for being honest. If Sterling is not doing repairs, and the customer can take the cue to local repairman their are also not getting a clear picture what caused the problem and what is necessary to correct it in the future. John, I have never said that you are no an intelligent man, but your area of experience is mainly centered around cases. It is obvious by your posts alone your knowledge of cues is limited.

So you see John you answer a question, and I answer your question. You see John the question you were asking is directly linked to the response you gave.

I hope that clears things up for you, and please continue to be civil.

You thanking me for being honest is like Hitler presenting a peace medal.

So, let me get this straight: Pay attention because we are going on a logic ride here that might be a little deep.

You started all this by claiming that you know how all Chinese cues are made based on your "extensive experience" repairing "vast amounts" of import cues. So as a repairman and as a cue maker you claim to be able to see and define all the problems with Chinese cue making just by the fact that you repair some imported cues.

But, then you turn around and tell me that we can't identify a problem by sending it to a cue repairman?

Do you think that we have some sort of communication problem? Do we not speak the same language as the local cue repair guy? I mean if we call him up or gosh, even drive over there and talk to him while he is fixing the cues, do you think that we are so stupid as to not be able to understand what he is doing and explaining to us?

I mean geez, cues aren't exactly rocket science Craig. They are made of tapered pieces of wood attached to metal and plastic parts. There are plenty of tricks and techniques that have been discovered and invented to make all those parts play nice with each other but it's not like it's particle beam physics or anything.

So doesn't it seem obvious to you that if a problem is recurring then it's important for the importer to get it fixed if that problem is significant enough that it's eating a lot of time and money and reputation?

Doesn't it seem obvious that the manufacturer would want to know about and fix these problems so that he can continue to keep the customers he has and attract new ones?

You're right, my expertise is in cases. I have never claimed to be a cue maker.

But I have been a cue dealer for 20 years. In those 20 years I have spent enough time in cue maker's shops to have picked up a fair amount of knowledge of how the process works.

But beyond that I am a player as well who knows how to assess a good cue.

As a cue dealer I have traveled the world selling cues face to face. People I sell cues to are people that I have to see again the next month and next year and the years after that. So it's a huge concern for me that I sell them something that they can depend on.

I would venture to say that I probably have more experience with more brands of cues that you do and that's not including all the factory brands. I am talking about cues made by small cue makers in the USA, Germany, Belgium, and Taiwan. This experience more than qualifies me to be in this discussion.

In addition I am in the cue factory a few days a week and can see the production first hand at every stage in the process.

So while I don't spin the wood I'd say that I probably know about as much as you do about how to assemble a cue and possibly more due to my firsthand experience in the shops of many cue makers.

And if there is something that I do say about building cues that is in error I expect to be corrected. And if that something is a process that we are doing wrong then I will be sure it's addressed and taken care of.

.