For real? $500 for cloth

u12armresl said:
I was looking at cloths, seems there have been a few additions to the market since I last looked. And I saw this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Imperial-Detroi...ewItemQQptZUS_SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item518ecabb64

I would like Notre Dame cloth, but not $500
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Is this what you're looking for -

Notre_Dame_Custom_Pool_Table_Felt.jpg


I would comment on the Pistons cloth marketed by Imperial but don't need a lawsuit.
 
Be very careful if you order cloth with printing on it. Many brands print the design on the cloth after the cloth is produced. The result is the printing changes the characteristics of the cloth, and can cause balls to do some strange things when rolling over the design.

The Milliken company makes cloth competitive with Simonis. They have a brand called Artscape that actually dies the threads as the wool is being woven into cloth. They have many pre-designed styles, but I believe you can provide them with a digital image (photo, drawing, whatever) and they can custom make your cloth.

Check it out.
http://www.cuesight.com/table-acces...inted-pool-table-cloth-8--artscape-cloth.html

Steve
 
how in the world could you play on that nonsense. and i dont only mean the ND logo:killingme::killingme::killingme::killingme:
 
u12armresl said:
AHHHHHHHH yes that is a dream come true.
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Please call CueSight at 877-283-7444

There is simply not a better cloth on the market with printing on it than the ArtScape by Milliken.

We have made many designs with the customer's personal design on it.

Our cloth is not cheap but it lasts up to 30% longer than Simonis.

As Steve mentioned the cloth is digitally dyed as it goes through the machine. It's white just like paper and the fibers are infused with color so the color becomes a permanent part of the cloth. Others print on top of the cloth so that the color is sitting on top of pre-dyed cloth and that is just like painting a piece of wood or screen printing a T-shirt.

If you are the kind of person who wants the best possible playing surface, combined with your personal design then Milliken's ArtScape should be your ONLY consideration.

And I will echo Dartman's sentiment about the "cloth" being sold by Imperial. Let's just say that you can theoretically use any "fabric" to cover a pool table, but should you?

877-283-7444 and ask for a quote, that part is free.
 
Only problem is CueSight does not have a license (as far as I know) for the NCAA logo
which OP referred to. I deal with custom printed cloth clients every day but I'll refrain from debating
which brand of printed cloth (as you so elegantly posted) is best since I have no desire to be involved in
something similar to the "cue case" fiasco. Now that's not to say you were wrong in your video but
the whole case issue became a clusterfluck.

JB Cases said:
... We have made many designs with the customer's personal design on it. ...
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dave sutton said:
how in the world could you play on that nonsense. and i dont only mean the ND
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I reckon it's different strokes for different folks.

Personally I don't like playing on other then standard cloth
but if I had to I'd rather play on the Notre Dame print
compared to something like this -
ASO081_sm.jpg
 
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Dartman said:
Only problem is CueSight does not have a license (as far as I know) for NCAA or NBA logos which OP referred to.
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I didn't say that CueSight does. I said that CueSight can and does do customer's personal designs.

Any time we are asked to use any logo that is trademarked or copyrighted we ask the buyer to provide us with and affidavit that says that they are allowed to use it.

To date we have made many logo cloths that have been at the request of people who have provided us with the proof that they are allowed to use the logo.

We do not advertise logo'ed cloth for sale. We do not provide it as a stock item.

What we do is provide custom made cloth to the customer's specs providing that THEY have the permission to have it done.

I am sure that you understand how all this works. For example we get lots of requests by advertising agencies to make logo'ed billiard items. We can't control who has the permission and licenses and who doesn't. So we ask them to swear that they do and if they are in violation of the law then the law can go looking for them.

Same as Kinkos and every other print shop, t-shirt printer, etc....

I understand that Championship, or whoever you are dealing with on the printed cloth has the license to advertise pool cloth with university logos on it. That's fine if someone wants what you have decided to make.

If however they have the opportunity to obtain permission to use the logo or any representation therof for their personal use on their personal pool table, as many alumni of these colleges are able to do, then we are a good choice for those folks who want something different and entirely custom made.

Sometimes folks all it takes is a phone call to the right person to get permission to use a college logo for your personal use. We can put you in touch with the people you need to ask if you would like to go that route. There are options other than what is "on the shelf".

Good day Rick.
 
JB Cases said:
...I am sure that you understand how all this works.

I understand that Championship, or whoever you are dealing with on the printed cloth has the license to advertise pool cloth with university logos on it. That's fine if someone wants what you have decided to make. ...
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There's not a day goes by that I'm not involved with printed cloth clients.

FYI, D&R was the printer for Wave 7 and Ace Products who actually held the licenses for NCAA, Harley, Budweiser, Jack Daniels, John Deere. They may have held a license for Coors and Miller but those designs were discontinued long ago. D&R sold their printer so they are not personally doing any printing now that I know of and we no longer deal with them.
 
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John, I looked for a pic of the NO Saints table they did, but couldn't find one...do you have one. It's the best example of what they can do that I have ever seen.
sj
 
JB Cases said:
So we ask them to swear that they do and if they are in violation of the law then the law can go looking for them.
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So thats how it works? I can hear it now, "we will copy the logo as long as you swear on (insert choice here)"

And in court, its the "they swore they had permission" defense? I believe that was probably taught on the same day as the "liar liar pants on fire" defense.
 
woody_968 said:
So thats how it works? I can hear it now, "we will copy the logo as long as you swear on (insert choice here)"

And in court, its the "they swore they had permission" defense? I believe that was probably taught on the same day as the "liar liar pants on fire" defense.
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Well regardless of how you feel about it that's how it is. When you go to Kinkos and you want to print 1000 flyers that advertise your tournament with a big Coca Cola logo on it then Kinkos is supposed to make you fill out a form that frees them from liability for your use of the Coca Cola logo. Kinkos can't be the ones who start calling around to find out if you have permission to use use Coke's logo or not.

Try checking things out BEFORE you go accusing people.

Where do you people get off thinking you know how the world works.

If you owned any sort of business that was in the business of printing things like T-Shirts, mugs, posters, etc.... then you would know this.

It's called indemification or holding harmless those who can't know.

Let me put it another way so it's simpler for you to understand.

Let's say that someone calls a painter and tells him to paint a wall in a private house. The painter does so without checking to see if the person directing the work to be done is the owner of the house. Later the owner comes home and finds a purple wall. He cannot sue the painter because the painter has a REASONABLE expectation that the person who has full access to the house also has the right to direct work to be done.

In the case of IP such as trademarks the printer has no reasonable expectation to think that anyone who is not affiliated directly with the trademark holder has permission to use it. Thus the affidavit which indemnifies the printer from prosecution. Of course it's not always this simple and sometimes the printer may require more documentation to cover their ass.
 
Dartman said:
There's not a day goes by that I'm not involved with printed cloth clients.

FYI, D&R was the printer for Wave 7 and Ace Products who actually held the licenses for NCAA, Harley, Budweiser, Jack Daniels, John Deere. They may have held a license for Coors and Miller but those designs were discontinued long ago. D&R sold their printer so they are not personally doing any printing now that I know of and we no longer deal with them.
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Sure and the same goes for us. We have done cloths for many individuals and some of the largest ad agencies in the USA as well as for several fortune 500 corporations directly. We don't stop at pool cloth either, we have done branded pool cues, cases and other billiard products in the thousands so we are also quite familiar with this area. For one of the largest alcohol brands in the world we did a run of 500 table coverings.

We have also done Coors, Budweiser, 7up, Ford, Google, etc....for ad agencies and beverage distributors.

I personally don't handle the cloth business so I don't know who is doing what for whom these days. I handle some of the other branded items that are requested.

I was just posting the number for the OP to get in touch with us and explore his possibilities. Of course if the $500 price tag for Imperial's stuff is too high then we are probably not in range with our ArtScape on SuperPro worsted cloth so he's probably better off looking for a cheaper solution.
 
pooltchr said:
John, I looked for a pic of the NO Saints table they did, but couldn't find one...do you have one. It's the best example of what they can do that I have ever seen.
sj
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People can read more about ArtScape here http://www.millikenartscape.com/home/Pages/home.aspx

To reiterate, this is done on worsted wool, SuperPro by Milliken, the same cloth that was used in the 2008 BCA Open in Charlotte. It's high grade stuff made to last a loooooooong time and play great the whole time. We have tried to beat it up at many events.

I should also mention that as far as I know we are the only ones who extend the printing onto the rails. Our cloths come with color coded rail pieces pre-cut for easy matching. So when the installation is done the image extends up on to the rails for a super cool 3-d effect.

And here is a small sample of what has been done,

http://www.millikenartscape.com/ImageLibrary/Pages/Installations.aspx

New Orleans Saints
c0b973d452f541c891b837e5fc16ad15ArtScape_NewOrleansSaints201.jpg


Chevrolet
17739106fcdc4908b0ce89623ddd0206ArtScape_Chevrolet200.jpg


877-283-7444
 
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woody_968 said:
It wont be easy, but Im not going to hold that against you :nanner:

Ya, 500 for just the cloth is a lil nuts :shocked:
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You aren't paying $500.00 for just the cloth.


The cloth is probably less than half the price, the balance is licensing fees and the cost to have something printed/woven onto/into the material in a way which won't affect the play of the table.

Somebody on the web will even take a photo you send in and do a one off piece of cloth for you.

LWW
 
Dartman said:
I reckon it's different strokes for different folks.

Personally I don't like playing on other then standard cloth
but if I had to I'd rather play on the Notre Dame print
compared to something like this -
ASO081_sm.jpg
Click to expand...

Well that why we have so many choices. We deal with a lot of interior decorators who are looking for something to match the decor and for that purpose we have dozens of designs and patterns in stock.

Here is an online catalog.

http://www.milliken2.com/__85256FF9004BD93B.nsf/homepage?openform

n80070PTTN.jpg


I personally like traditional cloth as well but I found that playing on the ArtScape that after an hour or so I stopped noticing the cloth and played normally.
 
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