Vince 'Pancho' Carelli - Hustler Extraordinaire

1 Pocket Ghost

1 Pocket Ghost

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Freddy the Beard earlier today mentioned about how bragging could get him action....I responded to him by saying this....


"Hey Freddy......What you said in that thread today reminded me of an 'all-timer'....

....the master, and most entertaining presenter, of the 'bragging hustle'....he was a thing of beauty, and funny as hell to watch in action - you can tell more stories than I can about him, may he RIP.....I am, of course, talking about Vince 'Pancho' Carelli....

For those of you who don't know about the 'real piece of work' hustler 'Pancho'....he would do the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the stalling, undercover, hustler....

He would instead walk in a pool room and start saying (ala Fats) how he was the greatest player in the world and nobody in the pool room would have a chance with him, and the good players in the room better not try him any or they'll be sorry...cuz he'll beat them so bad, they'll be embarassed in front of everybody, and he'll just go on and on and on in this vein....So after about a half hour-one hour of this, all the shortstops in the room want to play him, either because he's got them so steamed with his obnoxious barking at them and want to beat him, or they think he's a bragging blowhard who can't play....

So then Pancho will proceed to relieve them of all their cash....:D....and he could very ably take down the cheese in many different games - pool, 3cushion, gaff games, one handed, etc....and the beauty of it is, lol...afterwards he gets to say what an honest guy he is....:rolleyes: - and he'll say, "I warned/told you not to play me cuz I'm the greatest"......:D


- Ghost"
 
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And that ain't the half of it. PANCHO was a truly unique piece of work. And he could definitely play! I have a couple of stories about him in my book. No one even knows what his real name was. I always thought it was Vincent Furia, the name hes used in Johnston City. And I thought he was Italian, as did most people. Now I believe he may have been a New York Jew with a birth name like Harvey Stein or Stern or something like that.

I first "encountered" him in the fabled 7/11 in the mid 60's. He told me his name was Pancho, as in Pancho Villa. I think he fancied himself some kind of outlaw even then. He got around pretty good, the height of his fame an appearance on 60 Minutes, when he was running some kind of porn scam out of Miami. "Pancho" died a few years ago in Chicago.

As far as his pool game, he may have had the most powerful one handed stroke I ever saw. He would bet he could get eight rails one handed on the old slow cloth. It was a lock for him.
 
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1 Pocket Ghost said:
Freddy the Beard earlier today mentioned about how bragging could get him action....I responded to him by saying this....


"Hey Freddy......What you said in that thread today reminded me of an 'all-timer'....

....the master, and most entertaining presenter, of the 'bragging hustle'....he was a thing of beauty, and funny as hell to watch in action - you can tell more stories than I can about him, may he RIP.....I am, of course, talking about Vince 'Pancho' Carelli....

For those of you who don't know about the 'real piece of work' hustler 'Pancho'....he would do the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the stalling, undercover, hustler....

He would instead walk in a pool room and start saying (ala Fats) how he was the greatest player in the world and nobody in the pool room would have a chance with him, and the good players in the room better not try him any or they'll be sorry...cuz he'll beat them so bad, they'll be embarassed in front of everybody, and he'll just go on and on and on in this vein....So after about a half hour-one hour of this, all the shortstops in the room want to play him, either because he's got them so steamed with his obnoxious barking at them and want to beat him, or they think he's a bragging blowhard who can't play....

So then Pancho will proceed to relieve them of all their cash....:D....and he could very ably take down the cheese in many different games - pool, 3cushion, gaff games, one handed, etc....and the beauty of it is, lol...afterwards he gets to say what an honest guy he is....:rolleyes: - and he'll say, "I warned/told you not to play me cuz I'm the greatest"......:D


- Ghost"
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Ghost, that wuz Danny "kid delicious" mo.....He said he would walk in any poolroom and stand in front of all and say "I'm the best, you can't win...So when i bust all of ya you can't say i hustled you......lol It was hilarious to hear him tell those DELICIOUS road stories.............
Frankie
 
jay helfert said:
And that ain't the half of it. PANCHO was a truly unique piece of work. and he could definitely play! I have a couple of stories about him in my book. No one even knows what his real name was. I always thought it was Vincent Furia, the name hes used in Johnston City. And I thought he was Italian, as did most people. Now I believe he may have been a New York Jew with a birth name like Harvey Stein or Stern or something like that.

I first "encountered" him in the fabled 7/11 in the mid 60's. He told me his name was Pancho, as in Pancho Villa. I think he fancied himself some kind of outlaw even then. He got around pretty good, the height of his fame an appearance on 60 Minutes, when he was running some kind of porn scam out of Miami. "Pancho" died a few years ago in Chicago.

As far as his pool game, he may have had the most powerful one handed stroke I ever saw. He would bet he could get eight rails one handed on the old slow cloth. It was a lock for him.
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I had always heard it was from the The Cisco Kid and the side kick Pancho played by Leo Carrillo. Vince liked to imitate people and in the movies Pancho would always say "Cisco" with a heavy accent and Vince like to say it. He may even have adopted the last name of the actor although it is pronounced different. You know, Vince may even have looked a little like the actor

http://jesseluna-ciscokid.com/images/leo_carrillo_pancho_valient_hombre.jpg
http://www.leocarrillo.net/images/Leo Carrillo/Leo_Carrillo.jpg

The strangest thing about Pancho was, at one time he had a ligt business making like $70,000 a week. He had a phone room selling magazine advertising. I know because I worked with him briefly. It was a job just to count the money. Where he went wrong was after a while he stopped bothering to print the magazines. He was only printing like 50 of each anyway. He began to just sell ad.s in Magazines that didn't exist. A true thief at heart, God forbid you should make that kind of money on the square. When the whole thing collapsed and he later went to jail. I saw him right after he got out and he didn't look like a sad guy who had just gotten out of jail. I have a strong feeling he had boxes of that money stashed waiting for him. He looked like a guy without a care in the world.
 
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macguy said:
The strangest thing about Pancho was, at one time he had a ligt business making like $70,000 a week. He had a phone room selling magazine advertising. I know because I worked with him briefly. It was a job just to count the money. Where he went wrong was after a while he stopped bothering to print the magazines. He was only printing like 50 of each anyway. He began to just sell ad.s in Magazines that didn't exist. A true thief at heart, God forbid you should make that kind of money on the square.
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Yeah, he had several similar businesses back in the day that were 'semi legit'.....and many different pool players worked for him over the years - he asked me to work for him more than once, but I never did.


- Ghost
 
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1 Pocket Ghost said:
Yeah, he had several similar businesses back in the day that were 'semi legit'.....and many different pool players worked for him over the years - he asked me to work for him more than once, but I never did.


- Ghost
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Yea, those conspiracy and RICO laws. Guys like Pancho if you are not like them are better viewed from a distance.
 
Before Pancho passed away, he would stop at the Billiard Cafe in Chicago. I remember once, Sarah Rousey was in there playing and he yelled out and for such a little man, he had a very loud voice, "Girl's can't play pool". He said at the time, he just wanted to see what she was made of. Sarah proceeded to run a few racks ignoring him. He said if she could run racks on that table then she could play but just for the heck of it he would say it again, "Girl's can't play pool." He then chuckled loudly.

The only memory I have of him was he showed me a drill for when balls are hanging in the pocket. A drill I still practice on occasion.

May he rest in peace.
 
Real name

jay helfert said:
And that ain't the half of it. PANCHO was a truly unique piece of work. And he could definitely play! I have a couple of stories about him in my book. No one even knows what his real name was. I always thought it was Vincent Furia, the name hes used in Johnston City. And I thought he was Italian, as did most people. Now I believe he may have been a New York Jew with a birth name like Harvey Stein or Stern or something like that.

I first "encountered" him in the fabled 7/11 in the mid 60's. He told me his name was Pancho, as in Pancho Villa. I think he fancied himself some kind of outlaw even then. He got around pretty good, the height of his fame an appearance on 60 Minutes, when he was running some kind of porn scam out of Miami. "Pancho" died a few years ago in Chicago.

As far as his pool game, he may have had the most powerful one handed stroke I ever saw. He would bet he could get eight rails one handed on the old slow cloth. It was a lock for him.
Click to expand...

I knew him since the 60s, was as close to him as anybody, and I didn't find out his real name until after he died. I did at least know he was Jewish, and his first name was Harvey. Brooklyn Butch gave me the last name, Weiss. His real name was Harvey Weiss. He died dead broke. He came to my door when he was dying, to stay with me. He was empty of course, and all his boxes were empty.
Incidentally Jay, Panch could get 9 rails one handed not 8.

the Beard
And yes, he screwed me many, many times
 
freddy the beard said:
I knew him since the 60s, was as close to him as anybody, and I didn't find out his real name until after he died. I did at least know he was Jewish, and his first name was Harvey. Brooklyn Butch gave me the last name, Weiss. His real name was Harvey Weiss. He died dead broke. He came to my door when he was dying, to stay with me. He was empty of course, and all his boxes were empty.
Incidentally Jay, Panch could get 9 rails one handed not 8.

the Beard
And yes, he screwed me many, many times
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Wonder if he had any relation to Sharone Weiss, female player out of NYC?

Frankie
 
Pancho

His real name was Harvey Strauss, not Weiss; I got that from both 3-C player Bill Smith, who used to be his road partner, and the late Jerry Orbach, who knew him for decades. Shortstop-level player, and better than that one-handed. Not a bad guy at all, as long as you had nothing to do with him concerning money. I once let him pawn a very good (Joss) cue to me for $60 for a week, advising him, "You have exactly 168 hours from now to redeem this; at 168 hours plus one second, the cue is mine." Then, one week later, I stuck to my guns and kept the cue. In that respect, I may be one of the very few who ever got the best of the man. GF
 
Argue with Brooklyn Butch?

George Fels said:
His real name was Harvey Strauss, not Weiss; I got that from both 3-C player Bill Smith, who used to be his road partner, and the late Jerry Orbach, who knew him for decades. Shortstop-level player, and better than that one-handed. Not a bad guy at all, as long as you had nothing to do with him concerning money. I once let him pawn a very good (Joss) cue to me for $60 for a week, advising him, "You have exactly 168 hours from now to redeem this; at 168 hours plus one second, the cue is mine." Then, one week later, I stuck to my guns and kept the cue. In that respect, I may be one of the very few who ever got the best of the man. GF
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I was with Pancho at least as much, if not more than Billy Smith. Plus Billy was famous for having an answer to any question ever asked. "What's the conversion ratio for 2 lbs of crude uranium into weapons grade U235?" He would immediately venture an answer. "I dont know," had no place in his vocabulary. I cant speak for Orbach, but I do know he was from Waukegan IL. originally. George, if you like, you can argue this one out with my source, the infamous Brooklyn Butch Fragone, who Pancho himself said could clear out whole bars if he was in the right mood. Butch claimed a very personal relationship with Panch, he was a 711 Alumnus also, plus he knew where he lived, and lastly he also beat him up twice. As for me, I have no desire to contradict Butch.

the Beard
Butch carries the scars from six bullet holes from previous disagreements. Just ask Jay Helfert.
 
I met Pancho while he ran around in South Florida for awhile in the early 80's. He was obnoxious to say the least but made things happen when it looked dead. He had some had a gift no doubt...he always was nice to me which ALWAYS made me count my fingers after we shook hands. Played jam up one handed...watched him and Big Arm John onna barbox jacked up one handed, made him a believer!!

Voodoo~~~man Im gettin old :cool:
 
Poncho stud

One day Poncho said he had a date with Anne Bancroft and asked me what I thought of her. Id rather not show my answer here. But she is a great actress. He came in with Jimmy Reid walked up to my table and asked to play for 10 bucks.....I new that he was broke at the time but figured I could spare the 10 bucks. I got in stroke and he went bananas as he always did and into his "act". One more insult and I would have belted him. Learning just now that he died, I felt very badly for him.....he was a character and had no character. Nuff said. Cant figure out why Jimmy would travel around NY with him:cool:.[/FONT]
 
freddy the beard said:
I was with Pancho at least as much, if not more than Billy Smith. Plus Billy was famous for having an answer to any question ever asked. "What's the conversion ratio for 2 lbs of crude uranium into weapons grade U235?" He would immediately venture an answer. "I dont know," had no place in his vocabulary. I cant speak for Orbach, but I do know he was from Waukegan IL. originally. George, if you like, you can argue this one out with my source, the infamous Brooklyn Butch Fragone, who Pancho himself said could clear out whole bars if he was in the right mood. Butch claimed a very personal relationship with Panch, he was a 711 Alumnus also, plus he knew where he lived, and lastly he also beat him up twice. As for me, I have no desire to contradict Butch.

the Beard
Butch carries the scars from six bullet holes from previous disagreements. Just ask Jay Helfert.
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And some of those guys he had disagreements with aren't around anymore! :cool: You may be able to find their bones in the Nevada desert if you look hard enough.

Butch liked me from the get go because I walked into 7/11 and played one champion after another. EVEN! I was a young kid who shot straight and didn't know any better. I played Johnny Irish, Jersey Red, Ervolino, Rex, Richie Ambrose and NY Blackie in a period of about two weeks. I doubt that I ever lost more than $30 to any one of them. It was all the money I had at the time. After New York, no place else ever seemed quite as tough. When I returned home to Dayton a few months later I was two speeds better and started beating everybody.
 
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Strauss vs. Weiss

The time Freddy spent with Pancho doesn't really count in determining his correct last time, because by Freddy's own admission, never ONCE in all those years did he have a clue what the guy's name was. He used either Furio or Corelli all his adult life, even in matters that went to court. As for Billy Smith's and Jerry Ohrbach's version (and Ohrbach probably knew him longer than anybody), I find that credible; it was Strauss. GF
 
Will ask Butch again

George Fels said:
The time Freddy spent with Pancho doesn't really count in determining his correct last time, because by Freddy's own admission, never ONCE in all those years did he have a clue what the guy's name was. He used either Furio or Corelli all his adult life, even in matters that went to court. As for Billy Smith's and Jerry Ohrbach's version (and Ohrbach probably knew him longer than anybody), I find that credible; it was Strauss. GF
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By now I have forgotten what name Brooklyn Butch gave me. It wasnt Strauss and it wasnt Weiss.
I have even met Pancho's mother a few times, but Panch was careful enough to cover up any clues. I'm going to ask Butch to confirm the secret identity with another 711 alumnus from that era, NY Rex, who also resides in Vegas.
I'm certainly not going to accept Billy Smith's version, and Ohrbach is dead.

Beard
 
NY Rex...

...had left Vegas for Seattle, last I heard. Brooklyn Butch's memory has already proven flawed, so I can't accept his version any more than Freddy can accept Billy Smith's. Not sure what the big deal is in the first place; everybody agrees that he was a New York (Forest Hills, actually) Jew who acted Italian his entire adult life. And nobody knows exactly why. GF
 
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