Very Public Woofing

[Bob Jewett]

Here is a letter to the editor published in "The Morning Call" (San Francisco) on May 27th, 1890. For reference, $1000 at that time would be worth about $23,000 today.

BILLIARDS.
McCleery Answers Ives' Challenge for a Contest.
The local billiard-player, J. F. B. McCleery, has
accepted the challenge recently issued by Ives.
The following letter from McCleery is self-explanatory:

May 24, 1890.
Sporting Editor Call— Dear Sir: In answer to Mr. Ives
I will say that I am willing to accept his challenge and
play 2000 points straight billiards against his 3000
points, for $1000 a side (limited to $2500 a side),
providing he deposits $500 as a forfeit with some
responsible party before my match with Schaefer. The
fact is I have not the money to make the match at the
present lime, but am willing to play him should I defeat
Schaefer. I am not seeking notoriety through the
medium of the press, and unless Mr. Ives has made a
"bluff" he certainly will accept my conditions, as the
$1000 on my side will be put up personally.
Yours, respectfully. -- J. F. B. McCleery​

Unfortunately, McCleery lost the match with Schaefer by a score of 15 to 3000 as Schaefer ran 3000-and-out in the third or fourth inning.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Unfortunately, McCleery lost the match with Schaefer by a score of 15 to 3000 as Schaefer ran 3000-and-out in the third or fourth inning.

Oh come on, 3000 and out. Does ya take us for a bunch of

Interesting read. Where's it from and is there more background to the story?

 

[Cornerman]

Oh come on, 3000 and out. Does ya take us for a bunch of

Interesting read. Where's it from and is there more background to the story?

Suckers? They were playing straight billiards where thousand point runs by the masters were what set the masters apart.

You must be confused on the game.

Fred

 

[EDRJR]

Korean 4 ball Straight Billiards

There are a lot of Korean rooms just outside NYC in Bergen County NJ. If you have never seen a rail nurse up close in person, you owe it to yourself to go to one of these rooms and watch a pro run some points. I tried 4 Ball with a room owner I played a lot of 9 ball with. He had a nurse going that was a thing of beauty. What a soft touch combined with perfect occassional "gathering" shot when they started to get too far apart. I forget the point limit of a nurse before you have to go to a different rail, but this guy was awesome! Way over 50 points just on this one inning nurse. I did score 2 points in one of my innings . Very interesting technique to see performed so well. Well worth the trip.

 

[Cuephoric]

There are a lot of Korean rooms just outside NYC in Bergen County NJ. If you have never seen a rail nurse up close in person, you owe it to yourself to go to one of these rooms and watch a pro run some points. I tried 4 Ball with a room owner I played a lot of 9 ball with. He had a nurse going that was a thing of beauty. What a soft touch combined with perfect occassional "gathering" shot when they started to get too far apart. I forget the point limit of a nurse before you have to go to a different rail, but this guy was awesome! Way over 50 points just on this one inning nurse. I did score 2 points in one of my innings . Very interesting technique to see performed so well. Well worth the trip.

There's a guy in Sacramento on Stockton Blvd, that was trying to teach me a variety of games- Korean, French and a variety of others, last year.
That man is still the best I've ever seen on a billiards table, and had a soft touch and finesse handling the table that I seriously doubt I will EVER attain. It's jaw dropping with how well some guys out there are, that don't have the notoriety and fame of the pros. Only person I've ever seen that could walk the balls all the way around the table and occasionally halfway back up the rail in an inning.
At least I could still beat him in 9ball, but the rest of the games on a billiards table....FORGET IT!
I only wanted to learn from him because there's action there 12-15 hours a day everyday, and I wanted to find a way in. And lose money in a new way! lol

 

[demonrho]

...If you have never seen a rail nurse up close in person, you owe it to yourself ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnlZS7WIRfg&feature=related

 

[Celtic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnlZS7WIRfg&feature=related

Prime example of why this game went the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Oh come on, 3000 and out. Does ya take us for a bunch of (quarter-hour suckers)
Interesting read. Where's it from and is there more background to the story?

I found it while looking for info on the Schaefer run of 3000. It is on a site maintained by the Library of Congress called "Chronicling America." Here is the link to the report of the record. You can probably find other stuff through Google, which is how I found the "Chronicling America" page.

As was pointed out, the game was straight rail (probably with the corners barred) and was on a 4.5x9 table. Most of the big matches at that time were challenge matches. Whether that much money actually changed hands is a good question.

The book "Modern Billiards," published in several editions by the Brunswick-Balke-Collender Co., has in some editions a 300-page record apparently of every major tournament or challenge that took place from 1854 to 1900 or so. The first listed match was in 1854 between Joseph White and George Smith in Syracuse.

 

[Secaucus Fats]

Prime example of why this game went the way of the dinosaur.

Have to agree with you on this. I'm not knocking straight rail or those who love that particular cue discipline. I believe it's an acquired taste, and one that I have no wish to develop.

I'll gladly watch snooker, 14.1, 10 ball, 9 ball, 8 Ball, just about any of the pocket games. I'll watch carom billiards as well, but it has to be 3 C.

 

[softshot]

Have to agree with you on this. I'm not knocking straight rail or those who love that particular cue discipline. I believe it's an acquired taste, and one that I have no wish to develop.

I'll gladly watch snooker, 14.1, 10 ball, 9 ball, 8 Ball, just about any of the pocket games. I'll watch carom billiards as well, but it has to be 3 C.

a little bit of straight rail can go a long ways to improving ones safety play

rail nurse and gather shots are particularly useful in safety play

 

[Fatboy]

Oh come on, 3000 and out. Does ya take us for a bunch of

Interesting read. Where's it from and is there more background to the story?

In straight billiards its very possible to run 2,3,4 thousand. next time I see you i will show how its done, I cant do it. There is a kid on youtube who is about 11 and is able to do it, you walk the balls around the table(very hard, but looks easy) get them both just right in in the corner and start tapping away, if you tap too hard and one slips out then you may have to walk them down the rail to get them in the corner just right a second time. Look on youtube or go to the carom section here and there might be a link there from around a year ago.

Bob is my description above sound about right to you???

I have seen guys do this in real life its amazing

 

[Fatboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnlZS7WIRfg&feature=related

in this video he walked them down the rails but failed 2 times to get the balls in the corner and his CB out away from them, once the 2 OB's get wedged in the corner-game over.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... once the 2 OB's get wedged in the corner-game over.

The rule is that you can't trap the balls in the corner. That's the rule the big runs mentioned above were played by in 1890.

As for not being a good game to watch, I'd mostly agree with those who feel that way. However, Caudron has a video of him making runs at all the carom games, and he does 250 at straight rail from the break shot. It takes him 20 shots and four minutes to get the balls together almost into a corner, and another minute and a half and 20 points to turn the corner and start down the long rail. He explains what he is doing for the whole run which only takes 18 minutes.

For those of us who struggle to run 30, I think it is a great game to play and has a lot to teach those pool players who are willing to learn.

 

[bud green]

People who can play pool at a very, very high level can look like fools playing this game, and yet top players like Caudron make it look so easy its ridiculous. They can run points forever....which is why McGoorty said they had to hose down the crowd to wake them up after the old time legends got the balls in a nurse position.

Even balkline where the balls are driven much farther is not much of a challenge to the true masters of carom billiards.

I strongly encourage anyone with even a passing interest in straight rail to check out the Xavier Gretillat youtube videos. A good variety of videos, filmed very well, and some amazing control of the balls. As valuable a resource for a beginner as spending time with Daly's classic billiard book.

 

[Cameron Smith]

For those of us who struggle to run 30, I think it is a great game to play and has a lot to teach those pool players who are willing to learn.

I would most certainly agree. I don't have access to a billiards table but I do play English Billiards which is as close as I can get at the moment. These games teach you complete control over the balls, and this translates well into pool.

The best thing anyone can do to improve is to play every cue game available to you.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

In straight billiards its very possible to run 2,3,4 thousand. next time I see you i will show how its done, I cant do it. There is a kid on youtube who is about 11 and is able to do it, you walk the balls around the table(very hard, but looks easy) get them both just right in in the corner and start tapping away, if you tap too hard and one slips out then you may have to walk them down the rail to get them in the corner just right a second time. Look on youtube or go to the carom section here and there might be a link there from around a year ago.

Bob is my description above sound about right to you???

I have seen guys do this in real life its amazing

Well don't I feel like an arse. When I read the article I thought straight billiards = straight pool.

 

[Scaramouche]

Cue Shots
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vWlzM3NfIro

Walter Lindrum billiards 100 break
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8722542367183127601&q=billiards

Walter Lindrum – How To Break 100
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bwKXxmBssPc

Walter Lindrum 100 break with nursery cannons
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WOfg8o4gHrs

Walter Lindrum – Nursery Cannons – Late 50s
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2zNwemKarDU

Walter Lindrum vs Tom Newman
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3D9FKQ-T790

Walter Lindrum – English Billiards
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LXEW4Wzh5Ps

Tom Newman – English Billiards
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FzHXzlaxo0g

Joe Davis, Clark McConachy and Walter Lindrum
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1kfyhDti4D4

Miss Thelma Carpenter and Clark McConnachy
http://youtube.com/watch?v=70px7hJgHP4


Nursery Cannons
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2U66m099fD0

 

[demonrho]

...I strongly encourage anyone with even a passing interest in straight rail to check out the Xavier Gretillat youtube videos...

Good stuff. Thanks.

 

[demonrho]

...I think it is a great game to play and has a lot to teach those pool players who are willing to learn.

I think Efren's mastery of balk line billiards helps gives him that unearthly touch at one pocket.

 

[JMuck]

I would like to know what specific technique is used for such delicate touch at such close range?