Strange Aiming/Warm-up Strokes

Matt_24

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just some interesting things I've observed.

1. Danny Basavich (fantastic player) warms up every shot as if he is aiming with center ball english and then follows through with the english he wishes to apply.

2. Bustamante aims at the felt...in front of the cue ball...and then follows through (I know this has been discussed before).

Does anyone else aim up with centerball and then apply the english you want? I'm going to practice hitting balls like that to see how I like it - but I don't think I will, LOL.
 
I do, and it's been the best adjustment for my game so far. I play with a ld shaft (314-2), I don't think I could aim in the same way if I had to calculate the compensation with a standard shaft.
 
I do also. My long time mentor Andy Toth did as well and he told me it was from back in the day when hustling in bars....no one would suspect any speed when never aiming off center.

It works better when using a LD shaft IMO.
 
Matt_24 said:
Just some interesting things I've observed.

1. Danny Basavich (fantastic player) warms up every shot as if he is aiming with center ball english and then follows through with the english he wishes to apply.

2. Bustamante aims at the felt...in front of the cue ball...and then follows through (I know this has been discussed before).

Does anyone else aim up with centerball and then apply the english you want? I'm going to practice hitting balls like that to see how I like it - but I don't think I will, LOL.
Click to expand...

Crazy thing about Bustamante is that he aims at the cloth a few inches behind the CB, but also an inch or more LEFT of where he's actually going to strike the CB. If he's actually going to hit the shot with low left, his practice strokes aren't even going toward the general vicinity of the CB.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Crazy thing about Bustamante is that he aims at the cloth a few inches behind the CB, but also an inch or more LEFT of where he's actually going to strike the CB. If he's actually going to hit the shot with low left, his practice strokes aren't even going toward the general vicinity of the CB.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

That's because he's pivoting from an offset position off the center-to-edge line. He arcs into position. It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life. I'm still trying to copy it.
 
yeah and Johnny Archer and John Schmidt get down already aiming left of the CB for left english. I know how to use both methods, 98% of the shots I shoot I get down already applying the english. The other 2% I pivot from center ball to apply english. It used to be 100% pivot for me until JA told me not to do that anymore. He was right though, I comprimise body position and balance by pivoting, and the pivoting will allow stroke errors to creep up alot more. I try to be consistent with the amount of english I use and I know how to aim to compensate for the squirt. Like I said, on the shots I am not sure I will pivot be very rarely if at all do I do that anymore.
 
Bustamante isn't the only person who usually aims at the bottom of the ball. Two of the best road players I've met do this. I think it may help in a couple of ways...it pretty much guarantees you're hitting on the vertical centerline without any unintentional side english, since you're basically aiming at the place where the ball touches the cloth, and it removes a variable in stroking the ball--"Should I be one tip or half a tip down?"--reducing lots of shots to speed control.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
That's because he's pivoting from an offset position off the center-to-edge line. He arcs into position. It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life. I'm still trying to copy
it.
Click to expand...

He dosnt even pivot at all,,He strokes to the left alot but he dosnt pivot.
Is he doing cte dont know but he dosnt do it on all shots.Some times he actually looks at the contact point and shoots at it .There are alot of
people who line up off center of the cb and at the bottom .Maybe there
getting a better view of things,,,,
 
Bustamante's "hook" in his stroke due to floppy wrist

8pack said:
He dosnt even pivot at all,,He strokes to the left alot but he dosnt pivot.
Is he doing cte dont know but he dosnt do it on all shots.Some times he actually looks at the contact point and shoots at it .There are alot of
people who line up off center of the cb and at the bottom .Maybe there
getting a better view of things,,,,
Click to expand...

Actually, if you look at overhead shots of Bustamante practice stroking, and then delivering the cue ball, you'll see that he has a bit of a hook in his stroke, due to the floppy wrist technique he is so famous for. He aims a bit to the left, because his right hand wrist "flops" a bit to his left (i.e. the wrist tends to swing inwards towards his body just a little bit), swinging the butt of the cue to his left (again, inwards towards his body, just a bit), throwing the tip to the right. So he compensates by aiming very slightly to the left.

I have a lot of IPT match DVDs of Bustamante (he's one of my favorite players), and the overhead camera shots show the hook in his stroke in all its glory. You can actually see him aiming a bit to the left on almost every shot, including dead-straight-ins, and then when he delivers the cue to the cue ball, the "hook" in his stroke pulls the cue back in line just before contact with the cue ball.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
 
I was taught 50 years ago my an old time real strong player in Jersey to aim center ball then just pressure the bridge hand to the left or right or up or down on the last stroke.But keep the cue moving straight ahead. It sounds awkward but after all this time i don't even think about it.

Forgot to say Hi Sean. I'm guessing you are feeling better by now. Sean and i played some pool when he was in Denver but he was sick as a dog and not up to par on his game.
 
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8pack said:
He dosnt even pivot at all,,He strokes to the left alot but he dosnt pivot.
Is he doing cte dont know but he dosnt do it on all shots.Some times he actually looks at the contact point and shoots at it .There are alot of
people who line up off center of the cb and at the bottom .Maybe there
getting a better view of things,,,,
Click to expand...

He pivots on every single shot in pool. He might vary how he pivots - but he pivots. He uses a single pivot CTE method. He always comes in from the left on everything. He and I discussed it a while back. He was taught CTE as a youngster. He said he's prob the only Filipino who still manually pivots while on the table. The others air pivot. He cues low so it's easier to see the final solution of the shot (center ball).
 
I've never noticed Basavich pivoting to the side, but I noticed that he takes practice strokes like he is putting extreme follow on the cue ball, then on the last stroke he goes downward.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I've never noticed Basavich pivoting to the side, but I noticed that he takes practice strokes like he is putting extreme follow on the cue ball, then on the last stroke he goes downward.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. The guy that taught me to apply English on the last stroke is the same person that taught Neptune Joe Frady to play some years after me and i understand that Joe taught Basavich or at least they played a lot together and maybe Danny picked this up.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
He pivots on every single shot in pool. He might vary how he pivots - but he pivots. He uses a single pivot CTE method. He always comes in from the left on everything. He and I discussed it a while back. He was taught CTE as a youngster. He said he's prob the only Filipino who still manually pivots while on the table. The others air pivot. He cues low so it's easier to see the final solution of the shot (center ball).
Click to expand...

Then why does he look at the contact point on some shots?Is he double checking something?I have seen him actually use a straight stroke before.Also a manual pivot would require the stroke to turned while out somewhat.He maybe lineing up lets say with his tip pointed at 3/4 of the cb and his eyes or whatever looking some where else but his tip is always stroking off to the left then he pulls the cues tip back to his bridge hand and fires it straight.Dosnt a pivot require some kind of turn?

Im not saying he does use cte but his line up on how he does is not a pivot at all.Also you stated he uses for everyshot.Why make things harder..And there are some shots where you actually use the contact point and a certain stroke and speed to make the shot and get shape.
Cte would just screw up the shot .There are alot of shots cte wouldnt address correctly.Does he use it on every shot i dont agree with you.
He has alot of knowledge on shot making and he knows when to use it.

Just my Take Dave....
 
8pack said:
Then why does he look at the contact point on some shots?Is he double checking something?I have seen him actually use a straight stroke before.Also a manual pivot would require the stroke to turned while out somewhat.He maybe lineing up lets say with his tip pointed at 3/4 of the cb and his eyes or whatever looking some where else but his tip is always stroking off to the left then he pulls the cues tip back to his bridge hand and fires it straight.Dosnt a pivot require some kind of turn?

Im not saying he does use cte but his line up on how he does is not a pivot at all.Also you stated he uses for everyshot.Why make things harder..And there are some shots where you actually use the contact point and a certain stroke and speed to make the shot and get shape.
Cte would just screw up the shot .There are alot of shots cte wouldnt address correctly.Does he use it on every shot i dont agree with you.
He has alot of knowledge on shot making and he knows when to use it.

Just my Take Dave....
Click to expand...

He pivots from his backhand. It's plain as day.

I haven't looked at a contact point in years - they don't exist as far as I'm concerned. If he's looking to the backside of a ball--- it's to see if the shot goes... not where he's touching the ball.

The reason I posted what I did is because I know, not because I think. As I stated earlier - we discussed it in detail a year or two ago. Take from it what you will, or don't believe it at all. It's all good either way :)
 
Spideyspeak:
The reason I posted what I did is because I know, not because I think.
Click to expand...

I know you think you know, but I don't think you know what you think you know.

pj <- I know nothink!
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I know you think you know, but I don't think you know what you think you know.

pj <- I know nothink!
chgo
Click to expand...

I do know. I'll leave it at that.

Another thing I know, is how little you know about what Francisco does.

What I DO know is how much you project to know about this subject, when you really don't know.

PJ: PM sent
 
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sfleinen said:
I have a lot of IPT match DVDs of Bustamante (he's one of my favorite players), and the overhead camera shots show the hook in his stroke in all its glory. You can actually see him aiming a bit to the left on almost every shot, including dead-straight-ins, and then when he delivers the cue to the cue ball, the "hook" in his stroke pulls the cue back in line just before contact with the cue ball.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree about your analysis of Bustamante's stroke as I too have observed. It was my conclusion that on his final stroke he brings the cue back perfectly straight.
 
Matt_24 said:
Just some interesting things I've observed.

1. Danny Basavich (fantastic player) warms up every shot as if he is aiming with center ball english and then follows through with the english he wishes to apply.

2. Bustamante aims at the felt...in front of the cue ball...and then follows through (I know this has been discussed before).

Does anyone else aim up with centerball and then apply the english you want? I'm going to practice hitting balls like that to see how I like it - but I don't think I will, LOL.
Click to expand...

I have that habit of using center ball to line up a draw stroke. I do better when I line the shot up exactly where I am going to strike the cue ball.

I have also noticed that sometimes on English shots I will subconsciously line the ball up with center to only finally use English, but someone please correct me here if I am wrong: isn't this just a derivative of backhand english?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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