Position Play When the OB is Deep in the Pocket

Woof Biscuit

Woof Biscuit

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I tried doing a quick search but didn't come up with anything. If this has been covered before, I apologize.

Recently I have been playing a lot on the Diamond bar table and Diamond 9'er. The pockets are cut so deep that the OB can hang up inside the points. I am not used to this. The only way that I can get position is using draw and hitting the OB in different places. Does anyone have any advice or experience on how to control the cue ball hitting the points of the pocket? Or how do you get position at the opposite end of the table if you can't use a power draw? Are you just SOL?

I played some cheap sets on the bar table the other night and this cost me quite a few games. :frown: When my opponent would hang up a ball and the next ball is at the other end of the table, I had a real hard time getting down there.
 
Woof Biscuit said:
I tried doing a quick search but didn't come up with anything. If this has been covered before, I apologize.

Recently I have been playing a lot on the Diamond bar table and Diamond 9'er. The pockets are cut so deep that the OB can hang up inside the points. I am not used to this. The only way that I can get position is using draw and hitting the OB in different places. Does anyone have any advice or experience on how to control the cue ball hitting the points of the pocket? Or how do you get position at the opposite end of the table if you can't use a power draw? Are you just SOL?

I played some cheap sets on the bar table the other night and this cost me quite a few games. :frown: When my opponent would hang up a ball and the next ball is at the other end of the table, I had a real hard time getting down there.
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Since it sounds like your unable to go rail first and a length of the table draw is just as difficult if not more this is the only way you can do it.
When the cue ball arrives at the contact point of the object ball it MUST still have backspin rotation plus, the object ball must be hit VERY THIN to allow the backspin to take effect. The amount of backspin remaining on the cue ball (and thinness of cut) when it arrives at its object ball contact point will determine how far back down table you'll get. This is an extremely difficult shot to execute without practicing it/and hopefully your at the level to understand all that's going on with this type of shot to make the adjustments needed to be come consistent, good luck.
 
Thanks ID, I think I understand what you are saying. I got the thin hit + back spin part. I understand that you must hit it thin enough where the OB doesn't take that spin away. Now, do I just cut it at an angle that will give me a hit on the point to get me the down table position that I am looking for?

Sorry if that's confusing.

Edit: I guess I am just wondering where the CB should hit the point after contacting the OB. It may be that I just need to practice it with the info. you just gave me and see what happens.
 
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Woof Biscuit said:
... Recently I have been playing a lot on the Diamond bar table and Diamond 9'er. The pockets are cut so deep that the OB can hang up inside the points. I am not used to this. The only way that I can get position is using draw and hitting the OB in different places. ...
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There's no reason you can't turn this problem to a profit. Here is a proposition game I saw someone lose 120 units at. You put 6 balls by/in the 6 pockets. I shoot them. You call the order. For the side pockets, put the balls centered and exactly one ball out so the cue ball can't sneak by along the side cushion. The balls in the corners should be touching the side-cushion jaw for maximum difficulty, but you may want to put them in easier spots for practice. To be fair, I suppose you should alternate being "the sucker" with the other player.

It's possible to play off the pocket points, but you have to be very precise and the cue ball often doesn't go to any place useful. For some ball positions, you might want to play point first. Practice with the cue ball in various positions -- I think there is no good rule.
 
Thanks Bob! I have heard of that gaff game before but never knew how it worked. That makes me feel a little better and gives me a way to practice. I like the idea of hitting the point first, that seems more predictable. I will try both ways and see what happens.

PS: Thanks for the input Neil!
 
Bob Jewett said:
...snip...
It's possible to play off the pocket points, but you have to be very precise and the cue ball often doesn't go to any place useful. For some ball positions, you might want to play point first. Practice with the cue ball in various positions -- I think there is no good rule.
Click to expand...

If I'm a United Nations Translator, I think what our esteemed collegue, Mr Jewett is saying...

"when the OB is so deep in the pocket and the CB can't see the majority of it, you likely have very little control over your next position. Call in the punting squad."

I like that practice suggestion Bob. Sounds like it'll engrain the futility quite effectively.
 
Sounds like this practice regimen needs to lead you to near center table in new ways when all is said & done.
 
MD, that's a good way to think about it.

Predator, I think it depends on whether you have a "Y" chromosome or not. :thumbup:
 
420 (like the name, btw), I have no problem drawing the ball. Just sometimes you can't hit enough of the ball to do it, or you have a weird angle. I agree though, I do have a lot to work on.
 
Practice this.hang ob deep in pocket and place cb cross corner no more than a foot away from the pocket and practice drawing the cb into the corner pocket ur standing over,its about a 12 ft draw shot on a barbox.This sounds hard and u have to bear down and stay smooth.I shoot this on a regular basis and find it has great rewards 4 the effort
 
Your first instinct is right... plain draw and control where you hit the CB. Anything else including playing the points is a little nuts.

One trick I sometimes use is to play both. Especially if the CB is several feet from the OB. If I absolutely must get to the other end of the table, I hit with both draw and sidespin. I EXPECT the cue ball to go straight back without hitting the rail. But often the ball goes more sideways than I expect and hits the rail. If that happens, the sidespin is there to help it spin downhill. If it doesn't happen, no harm done, the ball still draws. At closer range I just try my hardest to aim accurately with center because I'd have to really screw up to accidentally hit a rail, and using the sidespin decreases my accuracy.
 
If your not streight in..I personally think right angles are going to be your friend..practice with quater ball hits an use 1 tip fellow with left english if your ob is in the right pocket..this should take you to the long rail close to the middle diam,then up table towards the first diam..an out to the middle of the head rail..not in the middle but close..
Sorry with my spelling..you can also come thro. The middle towards the side pocket this way...just drop down with draw and use 2 tips..but you stroke the ball as if you where playing follow..I am better at showing,then explaining..hopes this helps.
 
Neil, that is exactly what I meant. Thanks for the help so far guys. I'm going to hit some balls now and try some of this.
 
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