preparing for new Simonis 860 cloth

[SyracuseJohn]

When I took my existing cloth off I found that there was a lot of glue on the edge of the slate and pebbles of white spackling compound under the cloth. I had never paid close attention to the rocks that were accumulating near the seams until I read here about using bondo for the seams rather than plaster spackling.

I took some pictures feel free to use them as an example of why not to use plaster for seams.

Also looks like the last installer used a roller to apply the adhesive to the slate rather than spray adhesive. It was on there pretty thick from 2 or more moves so I scraped it off with a razor in preparation for new cloth.

I watched an install video from here on you tube showing a mechanic using a roller and liquid adhesive on the table edge and another using the spray on adhesive. Seems like most of you guys prefer the spray?

Should the contact adhesive be applied to both the table and the cloth?

I took pictures of before and after on my seams and the glue removal if anyone is interested let me know and I will post them.

This site has been a wonderful resource for both information and product.

I cleaned the plaster off with a damp sponge and redid the seams with Bondo. Wow that stuff drys fast. I mixed enough for 2 seams and it was too stiff by the time I finished the first seam..

I think I am ready for my new cloth which should be here tomarrow.

 

[SyracuseJohn]

Pictures of the seams with plaster .





Seams redone with bondo



Corner with excess glue



After clean up

When I took my existing cloth off I found that there was a lot of glue on the edge of the slate and pebbles of white spackling compound under the cloth. I had never paid close attention to the rocks that were accumulating near the seams until I read here about using bondo for the seams rather than plaster spackling.

I took some pictures feel free to use them as an example of why not to use plaster for seams.

Also looks like the last installer used a roller to apply the adhesive to the slate rather than spray adhesive. It was on there pretty thick from 2 or more moves so I scraped it off with a razor in preparation for new cloth.

I watched an install video from here on you tube showing a mechanic using a roller and liquid adhesive on the table edge and another using the spray on adhesive. Seems like most of you guys prefer the spray?

Should the contact adhesive be applied to both the table and the cloth?

I took pictures of before and after on my seams and the glue removal if anyone is interested let me know and I will post them.

This site has been a wonderful resource for both information and product.

I cleaned the plaster off with a damp sponge and redid the seams with Bondo. Wow that stuff drys fast. I mixed enough for 2 seams and it was too stiff by the time I finished the first seam..

I think I am ready for my new cloth which should be here tomarrow.

 

[fsarfino]

Did you check the level since the cloth is off now would be a good time to do it.

 

[JZMechanix]

Good call switching to the bondo. If you're having problems with it drying too fast try using less hardener. If you use the recommended amount you should have sufficient time to finish both seams.

IMO the only mechanics still using 77 spray glue to install bedcloths are doing so because they haven't learned how to do it using the 3M10 contact adhesive. With the 3M10 there is no glue on the slate surface and it allows the cloth to be pulled much tighter than if using spray glue.

Was the YouTube video you mentioned the one showing the bedcloth being installed with 3M10 on a Diamond ProAm @ the factory?

 

[Dartman]

We can hope level was checked since the seams have already been refilled.

A little surprising to me that glue was used before rather then staples as I believe I see a slate liner in the pic. If a roller/glue was used, which I doubt, there shouldn't be much if any glue on the top side of the slate. I suspect spray glue was used and OP was scraping off overspray. Most people probably have not heard of cardboard which prevents that.

Regardless of which glue is used it needs to be applied to both the slate edge and the back of the cloth where the cloth will hit the slate edge when stretched.

 

[SyracuseJohn]

To fsarfino yes I did level the table before doing the seams over but thank you for asking as you never know with us amateurs what we may forget and now is the time. Amazing how much table roll is apparent when the cloth is off. Put a ball on one corner and it rolled to the opposite diagonal corner. Cleared that up!

Jz I cannot find the vid but I watched probably 10 different vids on the subject of cloth installation now. Are you suggesting that only the table edges should be glued not the table surface?

Dartman, Are you suggesting that as the prior installer spayed the table edge he oversprayed onto the table surface?

Yes there is a table liner of particle board glued to the bottom side of the slate which could be used for stapling. Frankly I am glad they didn't staple it since I would still be there removing staples lol..

I figured that the amount of glue that was on the top of the table could change the nose height of the cushions so I removed as much as I could with a razor scraper.

Thanks

John

We can hope level was checked since the seams have already been refilled.

A little surprising to me that glue was used before rather then staples as I believe I see a slate liner in the pic. If a roller/glue was used, which I doubt, there shouldn't be much if any glue on the top side of the slate. I suspect spray glue was used and OP was scraping off overspray. Most people probably have not heard of cardboard which prevents that.

Regardless of which glue is used it needs to be applied to both the slate edge and the back of the cloth where the cloth will hit the slate edge when stretched.

 

[SyracuseJohn]

Here's a couple pics of the amount of glue on the table surface and the cleaned up side pocket before and after. In the first picture this was the final cleanup I went around the table 2 or 3 times before getting down to the slate in this picture.. changed blades each time.

To fsarfino yes I did level the table before doing the seams over but thank you for asking as you never know with us amateurs what we may forget and now is the time. Amazing how much table roll is apparent when the cloth is off. Put a ball on one corner and it rolled to the opposite diagonal corner. Cleared that up!

Jz I cannot find the vid but I watched probably 10 different vids on the subject of cloth installation now. Are you suggesting that only the table edges should be glued not the table surface?

Dartman, Are you suggesting that as the prior installer spayed the table edge he oversprayed onto the table surface?

Yes there is a table liner of particle board glued to the bottom side of the slate which could be used for stapling. Frankly I am glad they didn't staple it since I would still be there removing staples lol..

I figured that the amount of glue that was on the top of the table could change the nose height of the cushions so I removed as much as I could with a razor scraper.

Thanks

John

 

[fsarfino]

Honestly without having the proper knowledge doing the 3m10 glue down method would be kinda hard to do. Since you have a backing board I would just staple it down.

BTW I'm just a do it yourselfer to and I stapled my cloth down before I knew how to do the glue method and my cloth is still on fine.

 

[Club Billiards]

That much glue doesn't look like overspray to me. You can tell the previous installer spray glued the first few inches on top and on the edge of the slate. You're right that that glue on top could potentially affect the way the rail sits when it gets piled up enough.

 

[JZMechanix]

Ni

Honestly without having the proper knowledge doing the 3m10 glue down method would be kinda hard to do. Since you have a backing board I would just staple it down.

This is true. I wouldn't recommend using the 3m10 if you haven't been trained. There certainly is an order of operations that needs to be followed regarding how to measure and stretch the cloth evenly. Of course you can have good results with staples or spray glue, but IMHO the 3m10 holds the best and allows for the most stretch.:thumbup:

 

[Dartman]

Dartman, Are you suggesting that as the prior installer spayed the table edge he oversprayed onto the table surface?

Cloth is glued to the vertical edge of the slate. Any glue that gets sprayed on the horizontal part of the slate is overspray. This will build up over time depending on how many times the table was recovered using spray glue. This is fairly typical on barbox tables. Put a 90 degree fold in a long piece of cardboard with about 6 inchs sticking up, hold it on the slate edge while spraying and there's no overspray on top. I tape an old sheet around the bottom of the table which keeps overspray from getting on the cabinet and legs.

 

[SyracuseJohn]

I got my cloth in and did my rails on Friday. First let me say I earned a whole new level of respect for you guys who do this for a living. It only took me 6 hours to do 6 rails at this rate I sure couldn't make a living doing this.. lol

I have watched the you tube videos on the diamond glue install a few time and I understant that there is about a 2 1/2 " stretch across the table for the glue down method. Please explain why you suggest that the 3m 10 method is more difficult than spray 3m. I appreciate the advice.

John

Ni

Honestly without having the proper knowledge doing the 3m10 glue down method would be kinda hard to do. Since you have a backing board I would just staple it down.

This is true. I wouldn't recommend using the 3m10 if you haven't been trained. There certainly is an order of operations that needs to be followed regarding how to measure and stretch the cloth evenly. Of course you can have good results with staples or spray glue, but IMHO the 3m10 holds the best and allows for the most stretch.:thumbup:

 

[SyracuseJohn]

Jack
These are the vids I am referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYF5YqgW7Q&feature=related




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arYF5YqgW7Q&feature=related


Thanks


John

I got my cloth in and did my rails on Friday. First let me say I earned a whole new level of respect for you guys who do this for a living. It only took me 6 hours to do 6 rails at this rate I sure couldn't make a living doing this.. lol

I have watched the you tube videos on the diamond glue install a few time and I understant that there is about a 2 1/2 " stretch across the table for the glue down method. Please explain why you suggest that the 3m 10 method is more difficult than spray 3m. I appreciate the advice.

John

Ni

 

[Dartman]

I got my cloth in and did my rails on Friday. First let me say I earned a whole new level of respect for you guys who do this for a living. It only took me 6 hours to do 6 rails at this rate I sure couldn't make a living doing this.. lol

I have watched the you tube videos on the diamond glue install a few time and I understant that there is about a 2 1/2 " stretch across the table for the glue down method. Please explain why you suggest that the 3m 10 method is more difficult than spray 3m. I appreciate the advice.

John

Ni

It's not more difficult other then it tends to get a little stringy on application.
Actually easier IMO and no overspray to deal with.

 

[foxygary]

When spraying adhesive on the side and corner pockets, do you recommend spraying both the cloth and the slate edge? Or just the slate edge? In other words, should we spray both surfaces?

Thanks,
Gary

 

[JZMechanix]

John,
I don't recall saying that using the 3m10 was "more difficult". I would however recommend seeing it done in person as to get a feel of how it is done. If you're not careful applying the glue it will bleed through the cloth and then you'll be cussing When applied correctly, the 3M10 sticks like magic. You can't pull that hard stretching the cloth when using the spray glue. It just doesn't have the sheer bonding strength that the 3M10 does. As Rick pointed out it is actually easier and creates less mess than the spray, just need to know what you're doing to get the desired result :wink:

 

[Dartman]

When spraying adhesive on the side and corner pockets, do you recommend spraying both the cloth and the slate edge? Or just the slate edge? In other words, should we spray both surfaces?

Thanks,
Gary

77 and 10 are both contact adhesives so either glue needs to be applied to both the slate edge and the back of the cloth where it will hit the slate edge when stretched.

 

[SyracuseJohn]

Thanks Jack,

I must admit you prompted me to watch the video a few more times. I didn't have a problem working with the 3m10 for stretching the cloth. As a matter of fact the time period allowable for working with the contact is not bad for an amateur like me. It allowed me to pull and set then pull some more in areas that I still had some slack. I was very happy with the 860 cloth and also the adhesive. I did get some glue bleed in one of the corner pockets as a result of reapplying glue when I did not have enough in the packet area.

I would say the toughest part of the job for me was the side pockets. After all was said and done I got some great tips from you guys and I thank you all for your frank and honest advice.

Here are some pictures of my installation of the cloth, pockets and pocket liners.














It's not more difficult other then it tends to get a little stringy on application.
Actually easier IMO and no overspray to deal with.[/QUOTE]

 

[SyracuseJohn]

One more picture of the finished product.

Thanks Jack,

I must admit you prompted me to watch the video a few more times. I didn't have a problem working with the 3m10 for stretching the cloth. As a matter of fact the time period allowable for working with the contact is not bad for an amateur like me. It allowed me to pull and set then pull some more in areas that I still had some slack. I was very happy with the 860 cloth and also the adhesive. I did get some glue bleed in one of the corner pockets as a result of reapplying glue when I did not have enough in the packet area.

I would say the toughest part of the job for me was the side pockets. After all was said and done I got some great tips from you guys and I thank you all for your frank and honest advice.

Here are some pictures of my installation of the cloth, pockets and pocket liners.

View attachment 126182

View attachment 126183

View attachment 126184

View attachment 126185

View attachment 126186




It's not more difficult other then it tends to get a little stringy on application.
Actually easier IMO and no overspray to deal with.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Dartman]

One more picture of the finished product.

I can tell from one of those pics you had trouble stretching the cloth but not too bad for a rookie. :wink: