More elbow dropping nonsense

If he shoots like that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_evpvweN-1M
I am not sure if this is a "J" or a piston. It's hard to see, becuase he is so small. But he clearly drops his elbow.

I know that this YT channel is from T. White, but this is the first video I found.

And I completely agree with Russ. If the pure pendulum stroke were superior, the pros would use it. Everybody knows about the pendulum stroke. Everybody knows the theory behind it. It's in the textbooks. The instructors teach it. So the pros could use it, but they don't. Why not? The solution is simple: It's inferior.
 
I honestly think Landon has THE most perfect looking stroke I've ever seen.
It's almost surreal.

Once he gets a little older with a little more experience, he's gonna be tops in the world.
 
When Landon was younger he developed an elbow drop in order to obtain needed power. Landon's elbow drops in a straight line with his shots, so I see it as no problem.

I teach minimal upper arm movement for soft and medium shots. Elbow drop is great for harder speed type shots. The drop is typically after CB contact.

Elbow drop does bring into play shoulder, back and chest muscles. (not always a good thing) Approximately for every 3 inches of elbow drop one has there is an additional 1 inch of gained follow through. The trade-off may not be worth it for some players. It's individual.

The bottom line imo is straight stroke.
 
dr_dave said:
No. I'm not sure where I heard it first, but I think it has been around for a while, even if not commonly used.

You have much to learn, Grasshopper. :withstupid: :rotflmao1: Just kidding. :grin-square:

I know that you know a lot ... almost as much as PJ! :eek:

I miss the PJ-Spidey "interactions." :love:

Regards,
Dave
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I may not know as much as PJ (I admit, he's a smart cat), but I'm a WAY nicer guy. If he wasn't so hell-bent on being curt, mean, and down-right negative on nearly every post--- he'd be ok in my book. He might know a lot I don't, but when it comes to "how" to pocket a ball--- I think I got'm.

I didn't know the guy was banned. I read the thread on where he got hammered, but I was lost as to why (I admit, I don't know the reference he made or what Mr. Wilson had said prior). These controversial threads aren't as much fun without Captain Know-Everything.

After reading all of the posts, Lou Figueroa (hopefully i spelled that correctly) had the best insight, imo. I think he's perfectly spot-on with the curling analogy. When playing last night, I found I was dropping my elbow to lock-in the speed/vector of the stroke.
 
pooltchr said:
Thanks for straightening me out. I haven't seen him play in quite some time.

Steve
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Steve, no problem. You probably referenced a video that showed Landon, once upon a time, demonstrating a pinned elbow. He was okay with that type stroke, but ultimately as a youngster he needed more arm for harder speeds. Since his elbow drop followed the shot line, I saw no need to interrupt his natural development.

Stan
 
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Mr. Shuffet,

Thanks for updating us on that.

And to make another point against the "ease" of learning a pure P stroke versus an elbow drop, I think it is quite easy to learn the elbow drop.

Just get a bottle.

In fact, a few people have asked for my help with their game. I told them to stroke into a bottle, keeping their cue straight, and use different speeds. I told them to start close to the bottle, then move further away as the stroke becomes straighter.

Of the precious few who have dedicated themselves to doing so, ALL of them jumped a ball or two in a VERY short period of time.

I don't buy that a huge percentage of people do not have the coordination for an elbow drop. These people just have not practiced it correctly. And the few that do not have the coordination required, won't be able to succeed with any other stroke, either. It sucks, but there's genetics for yah.

Russ
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
If he shoots like that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_evpvweN-1M
I am not sure if this is a "J" or a piston. It's hard to see, becuase he is so small. But he clearly drops his elbow.

I know that this YT channel is from T. White, but this is the first video I found.

And I completely agree with Russ. If the pure pendulum stroke were superior, the pros would use it. Everybody knows about the pendulum stroke. Everybody knows the theory behind it. It's in the textbooks. The instructors teach it. So the pros could use it, but they don't. Why not? The solution is simple: It's inferior.
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Yikes...curious to hear replies to this.
 
Neil said:
I really don't understand why everyone is so hung up on what the current pros do. ??? How many of them actually had any type of actual instructor?? They learned by watching others and by playing a LOT. Why would any of them try to learn a pendulum stroke today? For repeatability? Something they already have? There is no net gain for them whatsoever.
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Let me try to do an impression of you on a different game and see if it enlightens you at all to how you sound atm.

"Guys, who cares how Tiger, Phil, Jack, and the rest of the guys on the PGA swing a golf club. We have this theoretical golf swing that in theory makes a heap of sense and while virtually none of the professionals who have reached the pinnacle of the game actually use it we still don't see why anyone would actually think that what Tiger, Phil, Jack, Singh, and the rest of those guys do actually has any real benefit to playing great golf. It is probably just a coincidence that they all do this thing, they are all pros, and that none of them do this other swing that we think is actually better. The swing that works for 99% of the pro's is probably actually inferior to what we are pushing, and all those pro's simply MADE it work through years of practice. They did not use that swing because it is effective, they all struggled with a less effective swing and made it work. Hardly anyone in the professional ranks actually has a clue how to really swing the club properly, they are all using inefficient swings and force them to work and this other swing noone at the pro ranks uses is actually better."

It sounds really intelligent no? I mean, if every player who reaches the top ranks of a sport are doing a similar thing then that does not mean at all there might be something to it eh? Every one of those guys who reached the apex of the sport and play better pool then every single person on this thread sans Donny Mills who actually also said the elbow drop has merit, those guys must be wrong and the BCA instructors are right. They have been teaching people the pendulum stroke for decades, and the fact that none of those students using that stroke have managed to reach the top pro ranks WITH that stroke, that means nothing right Neil? I mean, where are these students who learned this stuff Neil? Where are the results of the training at the top level of the sport? Why is it that every player that seems to reach the top does not use this so called perfectly simple and effective stroke despite it being hyped for decades?

Common sense would dictate that maybe that stroke despite being pushed like crazy might not be very effective at reaching the top echelon of the sport. But as far as common sense Neil, do you have any?
 
Swinging too wide of a loop

Celtic said:
Let me try to do an impression of you on a different game and see if it enlightens you at all to how you sound atm.
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Celtic,

Out of the thousands of people on this forum I'd rate Neil in the top handful in common sense, intelligence, and integrity. You have overstepped with that post and I suggest you edit it. I deliberately edited it in this reply so I don't cause it to stay up myself. I'll be reporting it shortly if it isn't edited.

Hu
 
Neil said:
Not at all. But, if you have a question in a thread this long, there's a pretty good chance it has been asked and answered already. Just to be sure, one should read the whole thread first. Even if their question hasn't been asked yet, they might find some insight or have another question that is pertinent, not the same questions over and over. Didn't mean to, and don't want to offend you at all.
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I read every post in this thread.
 
I would go so far as to say that no, Tiger does not in fact change the entire last 1/3rd of his stroke, which is the difference between the pendulum and elbow drop strokes....

:D :D :D

Russ
 
your call

Neil said:
Thanks, Hu. That means a lot coming from you! As I feel the same way about you. No need to edit it, it was just a question, and his opinion. We are all entitled to them. I just don't understand why people can't take an honest look at what is being said without the blinders on. I guess some just refuse to TRY and learn anything different. They are set in their ways, and won't even honestly look at any other way. Oh well, their loss.

(I suspect a lot of the same people are the ones buying a new cue every other month because the one they have doesn't make enough balls for them.;))
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Neil,

Since you chose to deal with it in your own way I won't report it. I do think it was an over the top attack however and Celtic isn't a pilgrim that doesn't know better.

Thanks for your kind words about me, I wasn't fishing. :D

Hu
 
Neil said:
O.K. You have been around a while. You know the ropes, so I won't be as polite as I tried to previously.
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As polite as you were to say.... ThePoliteSniper who simply wanted to enter the discussion and was basically attacked by you.

Hu, I read what I posted again, I stand by what I posted and honestly there was hardly a personal attack in the whole thing. I simply asked him if he had any common sense because seriously, virtually EVERY pro in the world shoots the way that is being debated on this thread, I honestly cannot comprehend how people cannot acknowledge this as a fact and see any weight in it, I honestly am at a loss how Neil just sluffs it off as he has repeatedly done in this whole thread from the start to now. And Neil is NOT polite, he is very very opinionated on this particular subject and he has no issue whatsoever attacking the viewpoints of others on this topic without the kid gloves on. As such I am sure he can take it in kind.

Go ahead and report it if you wish, but you might as well report this as well because what I said was in no way more of an attack then below, and what I wrote was after Neil posted this in response to another poster on this thread, and you might guess that it lessened my tounge abit as Neil seemed to be fine putting things out there a little more bluntly.

Neil said:
Well, since his 'name' is POLITEsniper, I was trying to find a polite way to tell him to try reading previous posts before asking questions that have been answered several times already. ......Couldn't come up with a polite way to tell him to learn to read..........
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Honestly, read my post, read the above, I will let my post to Neil stand next to that one, I feel mine is quite abit more reserved then that one TBH.
 
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