I've discovered a fun trick

F

Fastolfe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Say you're left with that break shot configuration:

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Call a safety, pocket the break ball and try to leave this to your opponent:

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If your opponent is on the ropes, isn't thinking clearly or something, you can bet he'll execute an opening break shot, which, unless it's executed well, is a great way to get pocketable balls when you take over.

It's funny how the brain works: I use that trick quite often now, and when my opponent is done shooting, I usually point out that he didn't need to drive two balls and the cueball into a rail, and that he could have done a more clever safety, or an intentional foul. Most of them go "oh wow, I didn't even think of that" and look genuinely surprised :)
 
Don t want to tease you Fastolfe..but this should be standard-knowledge for every 14.1 player in my opinion. And further to your example: try to let the cueball frozen (or almost) at the middle diamond of the head-rail. Then your opponent has a real problem-especially if he already have had a fould on his counter^^.
Imo excellent safety-play in 14.1 is not that easy, but extremly important and of the greatest advantages you could have against an opponent who s just not able to defense in a *safety-war*- and if you see sometimes (nowadays) how bad some good-shooters are playing safties.....can t believe it from time to time. I m really not a 100 ball runner- but i love to play safety and like the incredible George Fels said * make your enemy s feelin like sharks appearing in his bath.*

lg from overseas my dear,

Ingo
 
Very good

Ratta said:
Don t want to tease you Fastolfe..but this should be standard-knowledge for every 14.1 player in my opinion. And further to your example: try to let the cueball frozen (or almost) at the middle diamond of the head-rail. Then your opponent has a real problem-especially if he already have had a fould on his counter^^.
Imo excellent safety-play in 14.1 is not that easy, but extremly important and of the greatest advantages you could have against an opponent who s just not able to defense in a *safety-war*- and if you see sometimes (nowadays) how bad some good-shooters are playing safties.....can t believe it from time to time. I m really not a 100 ball runner- but i love to play safety and like the incredible George Fels said * make your enemy s feelin like sharks appearing in his bath.*

lg from overseas my dear,

Ingo
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Very good advice "Ratta".
This gets back to Steve's post (Situation from 2009 Worlds) with the 3 balls left on the table. I wrote about playing a safe on the 15 ball when it gets spotted on the Head Spot.
 
i like calling the shot drawing down table and shooting the safety where you hit the stack knock a few balls out and leave the cue ball frozen to the stack
 
Don't do that against a good player

poolplayer2093 said:
i like calling the shot drawing down table and shooting the safety where you hit the stack knock a few balls out and leave the cue ball frozen to the stack
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As my mentor "Leroy Kinman" always told me "There are plenty of men in the Poor House over shots like that".
 
Answer

poolplayer2093 said:
What about calling the shot and kicking behind the stack for the safety?
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Any time that you play a safe into or off of the rack, there is a chance that you might kick a ball out for a shot for your opponent or leaving a combo. It is always better to leave that long safe & let your opponent go into the rack. Once the cue is behind the rack or on the side of the rack. There are different come back safes to play depending on the lay out of the table.
But the whole point, is to let your opponent disturb the rack and maybe you will have a shot.
I hope this helps.
 
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Ratta said:
Don t want to tease you Fastolfe..but this should be standard-knowledge for every 14.1 player in my opinion.
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I'm not sure I understand: are you saying it's common knowledge that players who are presented with a typical standard opening break shot configuration on the table often opt to play it as if it was the beginning of the game, although they don't have to?

Personally, I'm surprised players choose this shot so often in that situation, almost as if it was an automatic reflex. I would definitely not play that shot as a safety myself, unless the rack was really nice and tight, which is rarely the case in many poolhalls.

As for teasing, no problem my friend. Remember, I'm self-taught and I still marvel at things in that game that you pros probably consider evident or common knowledge. I'm wide-eyed and naive that way :) If my little mental trick is old, I'm still happy I discovered it.
 
Fastolfe said:
I'm not sure I understand: are you saying it's common knowledge that players who are presented with a typical standard opening break shot configuration on the table often opt to play it as if it was the beginning of the game, although they don't have to?

Personally, I'm surprised players choose this shot so often in that situation, almost as if it was an automatic reflex. I would definitely not play that shot as a safety myself, unless the rack was really nice and tight, which is rarely the case in many poolhalls.

As for teasing, no problem my friend. Remember, I'm self-taught and I still marvel at things in that game that you pros probably consider evident or common knowledge. I'm wide-eyed and naive that way :) If my little mental trick is old, I'm still happy I discovered it.
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It's a clever strategy play and something that many people don't figure out on their own. But it is part and parcel of standard 14.1 strategy (and much easier if you're taught it). Like Ratta said, leaving your opponent frozen by the nameplate is a lot stronger.

Here are a couple of examples of other possible safeties that your opponent could play from your position. There are more, and you can always take a foul too...

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Same as Ratta

I was thinking exactly like Ratta before I read his post. I'd call safety and then pocket the 1 with high right - trying to put the CB on the middle of the head rail.

Ron F
 
I don't wanna pick on anyone but tsw's shots look unrealistic to me.

The first shows the CB passing through/grazing the corner ball, but in reality you'd have to miss the 10 by a wider margin and then use more left spin to run into the 6. You'd have to hit it awfully perfect to hit the 6 square hard enough to pop the 13 to the side rail, but not budge the corner ball. If the corner ball moves even a little then you might be selling out any one of those 3 balls as a corner shot (or at least a counter safe)

I believe the traditional behind-the-rack safe is to kick into the middle ball, which (if you're lucky) pops the 2 or 3 to the rail. But you worry more about sticking him solidly to the bottom of the rack than about getting that legal rail touch.

I want to dismiss the 2nd shot because if you 2 rail into the rack hard enough that the CB travels all the way to the head rail, it's gotta be spreading several balls out much more than what's shown in the diagram. And if your speed is off and he's not frozen to the head rail, he might actually go for a shot and make it. Also it looks like you can scratch in the corner playing such a safe. It's creative though... maybe it's a known shot that I just haven't come across yet?

PS to the original poster: it's good you came up with that safety on your own. While it's a common shot in straight, it wasn't known to you and you figured it out on your own. That's good. The next logical step (which you'd eventually have also figured out) is to do what ratta said and leave him even further from the rack, and maybe even frozen to a rail so it's hard to return safe.

Me, I'd probably crush it with draw and try to get lucky clipping the upper corner. But there's a lot that can go wrong with that. Something you might try strictly in a friendly match.
 
poolplayer2093 said:
i like calling the shot drawing down table and shooting the safety where you hit the stack knock a few balls out and leave the cue ball frozen to the stack
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exactly..... it's easy to draw to near the top of the rack where a cinch safety awaits on one of the top two balls PLUS you get one more point for calling the ball rather than calling a safety.
 
Think about this

sausage said:
exactly..... it's easy to draw to near the top of the rack where a cinch safety awaits on one of the top two balls PLUS you get one more point for calling the ball rather than calling a safety.
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I much rather have an opponent draw the cue ball softly into the top of the rack instead of leaving me a long safety up table on the rail. It would be much easier for me to play a good safety off the rack and leave him up table where he should of left me. For reasons that I stated in my last comment.
 
CreeDo said:
I don't wanna pick on anyone but tsw's shots look unrealistic to me.

The first shows the CB passing through/grazing the corner ball, but in reality you'd have to miss the 10 by a wider margin and then use more left spin to run into the 6. You'd have to hit it awfully perfect to hit the 6 square hard enough to pop the 13 to the side rail, but not budge the corner ball. If the corner ball moves even a little then you might be selling out any one of those 3 balls as a corner shot (or at least a counter safe)

I believe the traditional behind-the-rack safe is to kick into the middle ball, which (if you're lucky) pops the 2 or 3 to the rail. But you worry more about sticking him solidly to the bottom of the rack than about getting that legal rail touch.

I want to dismiss the 2nd shot because if you 2 rail into the rack hard enough that the CB travels all the way to the head rail, it's gotta be spreading several balls out much more than what's shown in the diagram. And if your speed is off and he's not frozen to the head rail, he might actually go for a shot and make it. Also it looks like you can scratch in the corner playing such a safe. It's creative though... maybe it's a known shot that I just haven't come across yet?

PS to the original poster: it's good you came up with that safety on your own. While it's a common shot in straight, it wasn't known to you and you figured it out on your own. That's good. The next logical step (which you'd eventually have also figured out) is to do what ratta said and leave him even further from the rack, and maybe even frozen to a rail so it's hard to return safe.

Me, I'd probably crush it with draw and try to get lucky clipping the upper corner. But there's a lot that can go wrong with that. Something you might try strictly in a friendly match.
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Admittedly neither of these shots is perfect. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any situation off a full rack where you don't run the risk of leaving at least a reverse safe. I'm just saying that they're better than playing an opening break shot. Taking a foul may be the right play too depending on the game situation and the opponent.

The first shot does require a lot of left English, but it works pretty well under good conditions. Try it out - from behind the rack you can go into either the middle ball or the 6-ball with pretty good results, but from that angle the 6 is easier. You are right though that the focus is on sticking the cue ball and hitting the rail is secondary. This shot is also in Cappelle's "Play Your Best Straight Pool."

IIRC, the second shot was from Irving Crane's bag of tricks. The goal is to just barely brush the rack. It's better to miss the rack entirely and take a foul than hit the rack too full (if you miss entirely, the cue ball goes back uptable anyway). At my level I only shoot it as a little bit of a joke, but I understand that at higher levels it becomes predictable enough to be a realistic play.

Edit: Here's Bob Jewett describing the situation in this thread. Lots of great analysis. The Crane shot is mentioned too. http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2000-07.pdf
 
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It seems there is a bit of confusion here. Fastolfe is saying he intentionally leaves his opponents on the exact spot they would execute their standard opening break; for those of you saying it's better to leave your opponent on the rail, it surely is, but Fastolfe is saying his opponents would then realize they should play a more standard safe.

While I am genuinely surprised this seems to work, I just wanted to clear up the confusion as to why he was leaving the cueball there...

- Steve
 
Steve Lipsky said:
It seems there is a bit of confusion here. Fastolfe is saying he intentionally leaves his opponents on the exact spot they would execute their standard opening break; for those of you saying it's better to leave your opponent on the rail, it surely is, but Fastolfe is saying his opponents would then realize they should play a more standard safe.

While I am genuinely surprised this seems to work, I just wanted to clear up the confusion as to why he was leaving the cueball there...

- Steve
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i agree with stevie here, although i never do dis-agree with him !!

everyone here has made some very valid points on this, but this topic kida steered off its original course.

i like the idea of playing the mental trick, but it all depends on who you are playing as well. if you are playing with the likes of (Schmidtie,Toastie, Ortmann, or Lipsky. Etc,Etc) i wouldnt try it !

Steve
 
Yes

Steve Lipsky said:
It seems there is a bit of confusion here. Fastolfe is saying he intentionally leaves his opponents on the exact spot they would execute their standard opening break; for those of you saying it's better to leave your opponent on the rail, it surely is, but Fastolfe is saying his opponents would then realize they should play a more standard safe.

While I am genuinely surprised this seems to work, I just wanted to clear up the confusion as to why he was leaving the cue ball there...

- Steve
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Steve good point about what "Fastolfe" was trying to say. Yes, Fastolfe safety only works on players with less knowledge. He is also giving an opponent a good comfortable chance at a good opening break shot. My comments & "Ratta" hopefully was to point out a better position for a safe to leave his opponent. Then other idea's popped up.
 
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Steve Lipsky said:
It seems there is a bit of confusion here. Fastolfe is saying he intentionally leaves his opponents on the exact spot they would execute their standard opening break; for those of you saying it's better to leave your opponent on the rail, it surely is, but Fastolfe is saying his opponents would then realize they should play a more standard safe.
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Thanks Steve, I was feeling slightly misunderstood :)

Steve Lipsky said:
While I am genuinely surprised this seems to work, I just wanted to clear up the confusion as to why he was leaving the cueball there...
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Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't work with seasoned players. It's not so hard to realize it isn't the opening break shot. But I was surprised to be able to trick a few decent players with it.
 
tsw: fair enough, it sounds like you know what you're talking about. I won't knock them any further til I try them ^^

...sorry to misunderstand fastolfe along with everyone else. That's hilarious. I think I never read his last paragraph. Kind of like tricking a distracted opponent by shooting one of his balls in 8 ball, hoping he comes to the table and starts shooting your balls in for you :P
 
I'd play the last ball like this, if I have enough angle....

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Then if you left me with what you showed I'd do this....

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Again, if the angle permits me to hit the back of the rack without glancing off of it. I hit it hard enough to drive a ball or 2 to the rail.

Sorry, I disagree with TSW's second shot regardless. I see waaaaay too many bad things happening with that. First, you're execution would have to be perfect. It would be way too easy to miscalculate that and hit the corner ball. Second, if you do graze the side of the rack you run a huge huge chance of scratching in the upper corner. But, as TSW said, he only does it sparingly and as a little joke.
MULLY
 
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