Linky broken.
APA skill ranking?
- Thread starter Hail Mary Shot
- Start date
I play in 9-ball as a 9 (I am a 7 in 8-ball) and my team just finished 1st in the session, we knew we had to because the team in second is the biggest bunch of sandbaggers I have ever seen and if we had to go to their room I think we would have no shot. When I played this team 3 or 4 weeks ago I played a 3 who kept giving himself away by playing things like a 3 rail inside english shot perfectly and then just shooting a ball into the rail. It was so bad that in one rack he played 2 great kick out shots in a row to leave the easiest stop shot break and run you ever saw and he had to take a time out to figure out the best way to dog it. (he drew the white 2 feet into the pocket on a stop shot) He still beat me easily as my head was gone I was so pissed at the crap I was watching.
TheNewSharkster said:
Try this link.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/notice.cgi?action=image_495
Steve
I just joined APA this past year. The main issue I see in APA besides the obvious sandbagging is that there is a huge disparity in the top ranked level. At the 7 level for 8ball and the 9 level for 9ball, you get a huge variety of skill level. A really solid shortstop or regional player is like a 300lb gorilla standing on the arctic tundra clubbing baby seals every week.
The natural defense that APA has is that you have to play all year long to be eligible to even go to Vegas and once there your team can win 25k (like 3k a person). For a whole year of sitting there watching and coaching 10 inning 8 ball games between two 3s, the local hero player is likely to want to cut his wrists with a dull tip tapper before he has to go through that again. Most shortstops and regional players cannot deal with being part of that much bad pool to maybe win 3k and it takes a whole year.
The natural defense that APA has is that you have to play all year long to be eligible to even go to Vegas and once there your team can win 25k (like 3k a person). For a whole year of sitting there watching and coaching 10 inning 8 ball games between two 3s, the local hero player is likely to want to cut his wrists with a dull tip tapper before he has to go through that again. Most shortstops and regional players cannot deal with being part of that much bad pool to maybe win 3k and it takes a whole year.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I am certainly no shortstop, but I can attest to this feeling. I am also a 9, but I know you would beat me to death on the table...
The disparity of skill at the top levels can be mind boggling.The whole situation is aggrivated by the 23 rule. As a 9, I have to load my team up with people who cannot really play at all, just to be able to play myself.
I continue to play becuase I have been playing with these people since I was a 2.
This will be my last season in the APA. Hammerheads started an in house 9ball league i think im going to look into.
I think you guys are under estimating the skill necessary to sandbag. I sand bag and let the other guy shoot 3-4 times EACH game.
I think the skills I have learned from sandbagging helps me in almost all games.
Can you imagine gambling and telling the player that I will let you shoot at least 3 times EACH game or its an automatic loss for me?
Got to love the APA.
The biggest losers are those folks that brag that they are a level 6 or 7. Hell anyone can be a 6 or 7, but it REALLY takes skill to be 4 or 5.
Ken
I think the skills I have learned from sandbagging helps me in almost all games.
Can you imagine gambling and telling the player that I will let you shoot at least 3 times EACH game or its an automatic loss for me?
Got to love the APA.
The biggest losers are those folks that brag that they are a level 6 or 7. Hell anyone can be a 6 or 7, but it REALLY takes skill to be 4 or 5.
Ken
I don't want or care about APA members stories... Just want the equalizer formula! Thanks
I've seen it, and it pretty much says what has been posted earlier in this thread. More innings, winning percentage, Ability Level of opponents, 10 best of the last 20 games. All that stuff that has been mentioned ealier is in there. And the missing "document" that had been posted online was from the late 90's, or maybe early '00's, so APA may have tweaked it since then, after it became public knowledge. The basis of the system probably remains the same.
The system is supposed to make it a somewhat even playing field for all ability levels, such that everyone has a chance depending on how the games go. Of course, there are those who will manipulate any such system, and that's when it gets spoiled and makes its less fun for all involved. Sadly, no matter what the system, in any endeavor, people will try to find a way around it for their own benefit, regardless of the damage done to others.
Pretty sad. Not unusual. But sad.
The biggest problem I see with APA is incorrect scoring that only helps the sandbaggers. Not marking safeties is the biggest issue. The rule reads:
"A Defensive Shot (also called a Safety) is a shot where there is no INTENT to pocket a ball. INTENT is the key word and certainly leaves room for judgment. This is why both teams have a scoresheet. It isn’t necessary for both scoresheets to agree on the number of Defensive Shots. If your player did not intend to pocket a ball, mark a Defensive Shot.
If all the defensive shots were marked correctly by every team every week, 90% of the under-rated players would be moved up to their true skill level by the end of one session. We see week in and week out teams that don't even mark the most obvious defensive shots down. Even some of my own players dont want me keeping score because I mark every defensive shot. I follow the APA's thought : IF, IN THE SCOREKEEPER’S OPINION, A PLAYER DID NOT INTEND TO POCKET A BALL, MARK IT AS ADEFENSIVE SHOT. I do this
"A Defensive Shot (also called a Safety) is a shot where there is no INTENT to pocket a ball. INTENT is the key word and certainly leaves room for judgment. This is why both teams have a scoresheet. It isn’t necessary for both scoresheets to agree on the number of Defensive Shots. If your player did not intend to pocket a ball, mark a Defensive Shot.
If all the defensive shots were marked correctly by every team every week, 90% of the under-rated players would be moved up to their true skill level by the end of one session. We see week in and week out teams that don't even mark the most obvious defensive shots down. Even some of my own players dont want me keeping score because I mark every defensive shot. I follow the APA's thought : IF, IN THE SCOREKEEPER’S OPINION, A PLAYER DID NOT INTEND TO POCKET A BALL, MARK IT AS ADEFENSIVE SHOT. I do this
I think the APA does a great job. I have really never had any major issues. The only thing that I would change is having the league completely geared towards lower S/L's (3,4,5). Basically the 6's and 7's are just along for the ride. I like the league and I have made a lot of friends over the years but it would be nice on league night to play different people rather than the same players every session!
A 3 or 4 either means you couldn't get out of a wet paper bag with a hammer, or you will make a great sandbagging addition to his team.
Ken_4fun...Are you the guy who moves the coin, when his opponent isn't looking? Are you the guy who moves a ball on the table, when his opponent isn't looking? Those are both "skills" that cheaters use...just like bragging about how good you are at sandbagging in the APA. It's sad to think you cannot play your best game when competing (if that's what you call it) in this league. You're part of the problem, not the solution.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com ~ someone who will quit playing the day they have to CHEAT to win a pool game.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com ~ someone who will quit playing the day they have to CHEAT to win a pool game.
Ken_4fun...Are you the guy who moves the coin, when his opponent isn't looking? Are you the guy who moves a ball on the table, when his opponent isn't looking? Those are both "skills" that cheaters use...just like bragging about how good you are at sandbagging in the APA. It's sad to think you cannot play your best game when competing (if that's what you call it) in this league. You're part of the problem, not the solution.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com ~ someone who will quit playing the day they have to CHEAT to win a pool game.
Tap, tap, tap!!!!
Steve
You sound like a sore loser....
Ken_4fun...Are you the guy who moves the coin, when his opponent isn't looking? Are you the guy who moves a ball on the table, when his opponent isn't looking? Those are both "skills" that cheaters use...just like bragging about how good you are at sandbagging in the APA. It's sad to think you cannot play your best game when competing (if that's what you call it) in this league. You're part of the problem, not the solution.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com ~ someone who will quit playing the day they have to CHEAT to win a pool game.
Scott -
I have only done the coin thing a couple times....
Ken
"To quote W. C. Fields: 'Anything worth winning is worth cheating for.'"
You need to lighten up....
ken
that little number next to your name is meaningless. i have finally soured on all things apa. there forum you finally have my soul. i am now one of the apa haters. i played in the regional singles this weekend here in the atl. i am a good 5. i'd say a pretty strong 5. seeing as how most people i beat say i should be a 6 (funny though when they beat me they just act like it should have happend - i win = sandbagger, they win = i suck and they should beat me. hmm). now i only had to win 5 matches to get to vegas. i buzz sawed through the first three, 38-23, 38-28, 38-23. in the semis had to play a guy i already beat and got him 38-32. now the kid (and i say kid only 'cause he looks young) i have to play started the tournament as a 4. he has already been raised to a 5. i know of the 4's he beat and some of 'em (ok 1 of 'em) ain't bad. then he beat on one of the 5's i've already beat. so i am a little suspicious. and appearantly so was the league operator. he watched the first two racks of our match. during which we traded back and forth and wound up about even. l.o. walks away and i get stomped the next four racks. game over and thanks. we went from two or three innings a game, a safe here and there, down to one and almost none (he almost broke and ran me out). just like that, he can't make a ball and, oooh, i just remembered how to masse out of length of the table safe (oh yeah he did it. dead on hit and made the ball). now i am not crying i lost and that's that. but when your l.o. wants to look at the score sheet four times before he declares you the runner up - even he knows you got screwed with your pants on. it's a f*cking joke. just play in the league to have fun and don't expect too much. sandbag, keep your handicap low and when they have the singles tournaments show up and win cash. if you can afford to get to vegas go on your own, show up underhandicapped and rob the mini mania tournaments. that's all the apa is good for. don't get twisted over your s.l. just come on here and have a good laugh with the rest of us.
Last edited:
The league I play in is falling apart. They can't seem to manage money whatsoever, mishandle paperwork, and I'm unsure if they do the skill rankings but we had a new guy who lost 4 straight matches, went down to a 3 after the first week, went back up to a 4, and is still a 4, despite losing 4 in a row, and through his playing is not even a SL3 caliber player. A few of his opponents have seen this and have intentionally run up the innings. There's sandbaggers on nearly every team and it's hard to get a good game from anyone. I think even the league operator is a sandbagger. Just seems like the APA has bred a shady culture of poolplaying and sometimes I wish I could just get people to play straight, not playing the APA game of handicaps. My team and I are a bunch of college students playing with mostly 30-50 yrs on the rest of the league's teams, and it's honestly a little discouraging to see that this is what league competition is like, at least here. Hopefully when I move to the DC/MD area in a few months I can find another league to play in. I want a league that encourages improvement and playing your best, not discourages it.
My view of sandbaggers is that these guys egos are so fragile and winning is the only way they can feel good about themselves. They don't care that their "wins" are from skewed matches with less-skilled players because their sense of self worth is so low that even cheating is justified in their minds. It sucks that amatuer pool attracts more than it's share of this type.
Edit: Lms9t, check this out. I played a new guy in my APA division who was a 4. I'm a 6. It's a 5 to 3 race. He wins 3 games to my four with a break and run (8-ball). The next week he's a 2.
Edit: Lms9t, check this out. I played a new guy in my APA division who was a 4. I'm a 6. It's a 5 to 3 race. He wins 3 games to my four with a break and run (8-ball). The next week he's a 2.
Last edited: