Reducing chatter?

[pip9ball]

Dick,

I've actually managed to do quite a bit of work using my toy lathe, and not one of my customers have had any issues. I've done several ferrules in the past, however never with such a hard material. This was the fist time I've experienced chatter so I came to this section for any tips/advice.

I understand that nothing will replace the accuracy of a real metal lathe, and hopefully one day I can buy one.....but for now I have to make use of what I have

-Phillip

 

[rhncue]

Dick,

I've actually managed to do quite a bit of work using my toy lathe, and not one of my customers have had any issues. I've done several ferrules in the past, however never with such a hard material. This was the fist time I've experienced chatter so I came to this section for any tips/advice.

I understand that nothing will replace the accuracy of a real metal lathe, and hopefully one day I can buy one.....but for now I have to make use of what I have

-Phillip

This is very understandable. You must do with what you have. Every one starts somewhere and progresses. I"m just constantly hearing how great and accurate these type lathes are and do all that needs to be done quite well and that larger lathes are just overkill so when you said yours was chattering I was sure it was tooling ground wrong or the wrong speed or something like that. Then when it comes out that it is the lathe itself that must be babied and coddled to do something as basic as putting on a ferrule I just couldn't pass up a chance to make a snide comment. I started out using a drill for a lathe and I know of a fellow who put on hundreds of tips very well using nothing but a razor blade and his foot.

Dick

 

[BHQ]

Hi Bryan,

I take it you haven't met Ivorine-IV yet.

i think it's the anti-christ of ferrules
kj , i use your ring cutter to trim IV4 ferrrules
and sparks & fire fly off the blade
the NEXT TO LAST blade i have (HINT HINT HINT)

 

[scdiveteam]

And just how many ferrules, shafts or other parts have you had to replace for free over the years by needing to do the touchy feelly thing trying to get any accuracy? Like I said, you can also put on tips with a hatchet if you practice enough. Something sold should be able to do what it is designed to do, such as installing tips and do it accurately. I sure can't understand why you would use this piece of equipment if you have other, accurate, equipment in your shop. Truthfully, it doesn't sound like a toy but more like junk.

Dick

Dick,

If it was costing me money, It would be out the door. What don't you understand is that I am totally satisfied with putting on a tip with this machine. It also does a great job on shaft recondition and you can put a ferrule on a cue with no problem. I only use my "toy lathe" for tip jobs or shaft recon and house cues because I like the results I get. As I said before, I use professional lathes for my ferrules, tenons, coring and drilling because I have the other equipment and it makes sense to use the right equipment for cue building.

What has to be considered here is two things:

1. This unit is designed to be portable and weighs less than 50 lbs. With less mass you can not expect certain things from rotating equipment.

2. Have you ever used one of these lathes to put a tip on a shaft?

If your answer no to number two, don't knock someone's product or someone's equipment.

I have over 1000 reoccurring cue repair customers that frequent my pool hall and everyone of them is very happy with the tip work I perform for them on this toy lathe. I have this lathe mounted to a little cart like a concession stand. I do the work in front of the customers and they don't care what lathe you perform this work on because it doesn't matter. When I need to do a ferrule, I go in the shop behind the scenes.

Lets face it, putting on a tip and making it look perfect is not rocket science. How you get there is irrelevant.

I have put thousands of tips on with mine over the years and in that time I have only had to buy 3 o-ring drive belts, replace one broken maintenance pin and that is it. Less than 50 bucks in maintenance over 7 years. I would say that the engineering and design of this little portable lathe and tools is pretty good based on my track record.

I understand you are old school and have many years as a machinist pro and I agree this stuff goes against the grain. These lathes are a starting point for someone who wants to do cue repair with portability. I have been using this lathe for so long that I feel that I can do the best job in blending the tip to the ferrule by deflecting the shaft a little and easing off as I approach the shaft wood. Unorthodox but very fast and repeatable for me and I like it that way!

Rick G

 

[macguy]

Dick,

If it was costing me money, It would be out the door. What don't you understand is that I am totally satisfied with putting on a tip with this machine. It also does a great job on shaft recondition and you can put a ferrule on a cue with no problem. I only use my "toy lathe" for tip jobs or shaft recon because I like the results I get. As I said before, I use professional lathes for my ferrules, tenons, coring and drilling because I have the other equipment and it makes sense to use the right equipment.

What has to be considered here is two things:

1. This unit is designed to be portable and weighs less than 50 lbs. With less mass you can not expect certain things from rotating equipment.

2. Have you ever used one of these lathes to put a tip on a shaft?

If your answer no to number two, you have no business knocking someone's product or someone's equipment.

I have over 1000 reoccurring cue repair customers that frequent my pool hall and everyone of them is very happy with the tip work I perform for them on this toy lathe. I have this lathe mounted to a little cart like a concession stand. I do the work in front of the customers and hey don't care what lathe you perform this work on because it doesn't matter. When I need to do a ferrule, I go in the shop behind the scenes.

Lets face it, putting on a tip and making it look perfect is not rocket science. How you get there is irrelevant.

I have put thousands of tips on with mine over the years and in that time I have only had to buy 3 o-ring drive belts, replace one broken maintenance pin and that is it. Less than 50 bucks in maintenance over 7 years. I would say that the engineering and design of this little portable lathe and tools is pretty good based on my track record.

I understand you are old school and have many years as a machinist pro and I agree this stuff goes against the grain. These lathes are a starting point for someone who wants to do cue repair with portability. I have been using this lathe for so long that I feel that I can do the best job in blending the tip to the ferrule by deflecting the shaft a little and easing off as I approach the shaft wood. Unorthodox but very fast and repeatable for me and I like it that way!

Rick G

I retrospect would you still choose that lathe again as your first lathe? Would you not prefer a Mini lathe. I don't know what the Cue Companion cost, but I bet it is more then most mini's at around $500.00 and a mini is a real lathes that can do many things in regards to working on cues. Make ferrules joint protectors turn metal parts, threading and so on. Please be honest.

 

[Murray Tucker]

Whew, you scared me there for a second. IMHO Ivorene 3 was the best ferrule material ever made.

Ahhh, that's what I meant to say. Ivorine 4 is the red headed step child of ferrule materials.

 

[scdiveteam]

I retrospect would you still choose that lathe again as your first lathe? Would you not prefer a Mini lathe. I don't know what the Cue Companion cost, but I bet it is more then most mini's at around $500.00 and a mini is a real lathes that can do many things in regards to working on cues. Make ferrules joint protectors turn metal parts, threading and so on. Please be honest.

Hi,

Yes without a doubt. You can't do shaft recondition on a mini with out making an extension bar with a tail stock mod and you need to make a steady rest for the shaft on the backside of the headstock. This lathe is ready to work out of the box. Mini lathes are nice and you should have one also because they are useful and accurate. I have made a lot of money with the cue companion.

Rick G

 

[Mr Hoppe]

I retrospect would you still choose that lathe again as your first lathe? Would you not prefer a Mini lathe. I don't know what the Cue Companion cost, but I bet it is more then most mini's at around $500.00 and a mini is a real lathes that can do many things in regards to working on cues. Make ferrules joint protectors turn metal parts, threading and so on. Please be honest.

They are quite different tools. A CueCompanion is portable, and can do cue repair straight out of the box. A minilathe is not portable, and needs modification to do many aspects of common cue repair. IMO, if you have the cash, you're better off with the CueCompanion if repairs are your goal.
Mr H

 

[macguy]

They are quite different tools. A CueCompanion is portable, and can do cue repair straight out of the box. A minilathe is not portable, and needs modification to do many aspects of common cue repair. IMO, if you have the cash, you're better off with the CueCompanion if repairs are your goal.
Mr H

I think the one flaw in my thinking is, I have a machine shop sitting out back of my house. What looks easy to me is not for a guy who hardly owns a screwdriver wanting to do some cue work in his extra bedroom. I know it can seem daunting to have to make modifications before you can even do any work. Much they would have to pay someone else because they lack the knowhow or tools. I just think that a real lathe is the best starting point. Some may be surprised what you can do with just a wood lathe with a few added tricks and modifications. You can even adapt something like a compound vice as a tool holder
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=V120
What does that Cue companion cost? I could not find the price.

 

[Mr Hoppe]

I think the one flaw in my thinking is, I have a machine shop sitting out back of my house. What looks easy to me is not for a guy who hardly owns a screwdriver wanting to do some cue work in his extra bedroom. I know it can seem daunting to have to make modifications before you can even do any work. Much they would have to pay someone else because they lack the knowhow or tools. I just think that a real lathe is the best starting point. Some may be surprised what you can do with just a wood lathe with a few added tricks and modifications. You can even adapt something like a compound vice as a tool holder
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=V120
What does that Cue companion cost? I could not find the price.

$1300 - $1600 depending on options. Pricing link is at the top of this page.
Mr H

 

[olsonsview]

Companion

I love to be able to fold the bed and grab the carry handle with one hand to carry the lathe easily into a tournament. If one buys version 3 , even joint work on buts and linen wraps are quite easy. Yeah I prefer my large metal lathes and even my deluxe for many bigger jobs, but this simple, portable lathe is well thought out and holds its resale value well. They come up for sale here several times a year so check often, you may get a used one for a bit less money. As mentioned by someone else, it is also a nice feature to be able to work around the spinning chuck safely without band aids and ice packs at the ready. I cannot tell you how many times my deluxe chuck has bit me.

 

[rhncue]

Hi,

Yes without a doubt. You can't do shaft recondition on a mini with out making an extension bar with a tail stock mod and you need to make a steady rest for the shaft on the backside of the headstock. This lathe is ready to work out of the box. Mini lathes are nice and you should have one also because they are useful and accurate. I have made a lot of money with the cue companion.

Rick G

You definitely can do shaft reconditioning on a small mini lathe directly out of the box as the shaft does not need to be supported on the end when such work is being done. It's true you need a bearing steady rest for the rear for tip installations but that is about 15.00 or if you don't have the capabilities to make one a machine shop can make one for about 75.00 or less. Since the mini lathe is only around 70 lbs. I would say it is probably just as portable as the 50 lb. one but at a little over 300.00 on sale it is at least a 1000.00 cheaper and just like you said, they are accurate. I used to have a booth with a mini-lathe for ferrules, a wood lathe for polishing and wraps and a dedicated tip lathe that I moved in a trailer to do tournaments. It was bulky and a pain to move so I now I just use one of the mini's that is kept in my van along with a tackle box with an assortment of different tips, ferrules, sand paper and polishes and such so if some one wants a tip or a ferrule or polish accurately installed I just carry it in and do the work. It is all I take to tournaments now but with other supplies. It also does re-wraps but I don't have the linen in the van so that is only done at tournaments. As you say, tips are easy but I've replaced many, many ferrules caused by improper tip installations where the mechanic bullet nosed the ferrule or cut a circular groove which doesn't show up until the ferrule gets dirty. I have made as much as 1800.00 a day at tournaments using this lathe as it is quick, powerful enough and accurate. Maybe I'm annal about precision but I do believe in precision, especially where ferrules are concerned. Nothing brings more ire from me than when I am presented with a shaft where the ferrule is a different size than the shaft, bullet nosed, the shaft sanded smaller behind the ferrule or not running true. So I use this mini-lathe when away from the shop as it is as accurate as i can get when away but when I'm in the shop ferrule work is done on a 13X36 with a tru-set chuck as in that setting it is what is best.

By the way, I have used one of those on a number of occasions as I talked 2 different people into buying them after seeing a demonstration of the machine at a BCA trade show in the mid nineties. Afterwards, when I tried using one is when I got disenchanted with it as it was so anemic that I kept stopping the motor while trying to burnish a shaft and the lack of tail stock center for installing ferrules. I had no clue however of a problem with the bearings or chuck or whatever that is causing the chatter. I received that knowledge from you.

Dick

 

[pip9ball]

You definitely can do shaft reconditioning on a small mini lathe directly out of the box as the shaft does not need to be supported on the end when such work is being done. It's true you need a bearing steady rest for the rear for tip installations but that is about 15.00 or if you don't have the capabilities to make one a machine shop can make one for about 75.00 or less. Since the mini lathe is only around 70 lbs. I would say it is probably just as portable as the 50 lb. one but at a little over 300.00 on sale it is at least a 1000.00 cheaper and just like you said, they are accurate. I used to have a booth with a mini-lathe for ferrules, a wood lathe for polishing and wraps and a dedicated tip lathe that I moved in a trailer to do tournaments. It was bulky and a pain to move so I now I just use one of the mini's that is kept in my van along with a tackle box with an assortment of different tips, ferrules, sand paper and polishes and such so if some one wants a tip or a ferrule or polish accurately installed I just carry it in and do the work. It is all I take to tournaments now but with other supplies. It also does re-wraps but I don't have the linen in the van so that is only done at tournaments. As you say, tips are easy but I've replaced many, many ferrules caused by improper tip installations where the mechanic bullet nosed the ferrule or cut a circular groove which doesn't show up until the ferrule gets dirty. I have made as much as 1800.00 a day at tournaments using this lathe as it is quick, powerful enough and accurate. Maybe I'm annal about precision but I do believe in precision, especially where ferrules are concerned. Nothing brings more ire from me than when I am presented with a shaft where the ferrule is a different size than the shaft, bullet nosed, the shaft sanded smaller behind the ferrule or not running true. So I use this mini-lathe when away from the shop as it is as accurate as i can get when away but when I'm in the shop ferrule work is done on a 13X36 with a tru-set chuck as in that setting it is what is best.

By the way, I have used one of those on a number of occasions as I talked 2 different people into buying them after seeing a demonstration of the machine at a BCA trade show in the mid nineties. Afterwards, when I tried using one is when I got disenchanted with it as it was so anemic that I kept stopping the motor while trying to burnish a shaft and the lack of tail stock center for installing ferrules. I had no clue however of a problem with the bearings or chuck or whatever that is causing the chatter. I received that knowledge from you.

Dick

Hi Dick,

Can you send me some information what kind model your mini lathe is? I might pick one of these up. How do you recondition shafts with this? Isn't the bed of the lathe too small?

Thanks,

Phil

 

[macguy]

Hi Dick,

Can you send me some information what kind model your mini lathe is? I might pick one of these up. How do you recondition shafts with this? Isn't the bed of the lathe too small?

Thanks,

Phil

One lathe does not have to be all inclusive. You can pick up a $50.00 wood lathe at a yard sale to fill in some other needs but for many jobs there is no substitute for precision. In fact, it is better to have more then one "All in one" lathe. Mostly I am coming from a financial stand point. Many guys ask questions and they are not going to spend $2000 or more on a lathe, at least not yet. They want to know how to get their feet wet first.

You can for a small investment really get started and do some good work if you get yourself some of the right equipment. Not to mention you will be learning the basics of machining that will apply to any lathe you get in the future. Also, everything you buy will not go to waste. As you get more into it these, machines will find a nice place in your shop for years to come. I still have an old craftsman wood lathe I bought maybe 40 years ago and I use it all the time.

I also have to add, a lot of that special stuff guys have to buy you can make yourself with a real lathe. The gizmos you may come up with, collets, centers, different jigs and so on. That is the unique nature of machining, you make your own tools, in fact you will invent many of them. In no time you will have a scrap metal bin in the corner and find yourself picking up things from the street saying "I think I can make something out of this". Machining is a great hobby.

 

[pip9ball]

Well, I finally finished this ferrule thanks to the many helpful replies. I ended up using my free hand to apply pressure on the ferrule while I was cutting. I then finished using varying grits of sandpaper (a lot)! The ferrule came out looking real nice but this was a big PITA!

I'll be looking into getting another lathe soon

-Phil

 

[scdiveteam]

You definitely can do shaft reconditioning on a small mini lathe directly out of the box as the shaft does not need to be supported on the end when such work is being done. It's true you need a bearing steady rest for the rear for tip installations but that is about 15.00 or if you don't have the capabilities to make one a machine shop can make one for about 75.00 or less. Since the mini lathe is only around 70 lbs. I would say it is probably just as portable as the 50 lb. one but at a little over 300.00 on sale it is at least a 1000.00 cheaper and just like you said, they are accurate. I used to have a booth with a mini-lathe for ferrules, a wood lathe for polishing and wraps and a dedicated tip lathe that I moved in a trailer to do tournaments. It was bulky and a pain to move so I now I just use one of the mini's that is kept in my van along with a tackle box with an assortment of different tips, ferrules, sand paper and polishes and such so if some one wants a tip or a ferrule or polish accurately installed I just carry it in and do the work. It is all I take to tournaments now but with other supplies. It also does re-wraps but I don't have the linen in the van so that is only done at tournaments. As you say, tips are easy but I've replaced many, many ferrules caused by improper tip installations where the mechanic bullet nosed the ferrule or cut a circular groove which doesn't show up until the ferrule gets dirty. I have made as much as 1800.00 a day at tournaments using this lathe as it is quick, powerful enough and accurate. Maybe I'm annal about precision but I do believe in precision, especially where ferrules are concerned. Nothing brings more ire from me than when I am presented with a shaft where the ferrule is a different size than the shaft, bullet nosed, the shaft sanded smaller behind the ferrule or not running true. So I use this mini-lathe when away from the shop as it is as accurate as i can get when away but when I'm in the shop ferrule work is done on a 13X36 with a tru-set chuck as in that setting it is what is best.

By the way, I have used one of those on a number of occasions as I talked 2 different people into buying them after seeing a demonstration of the machine at a BCA trade show in the mid nineties. Afterwards, when I tried using one is when I got disenchanted with it as it was so anemic that I kept stopping the motor while trying to burnish a shaft and the lack of tail stock center for installing ferrules. I had no clue however of a problem with the bearings or chuck or whatever that is causing the chatter. I received that knowledge from you.

Dick

Dick, I have owned and used this lathe for almost 7 years and the DC Motor is very powerful and you are not going to stop it burnishing a shaft. You must have been using another machine and are confused. Anyone who has sanded or burnished a shaft on this machine will agree that it has plenty of power and does not stop. I don't think you could core or use a big drill bit without lugging the motor but doing shafts are not even close to being problematic. Rick

 

[pip9ball]

There is actually two motor options with the cue companion. The weaker motor can definitely be stopped with your hand as I've done this plenty of times. I immediately purchased the bigger motor which is more powerful and cannot be stopped...well atleast not without hurting yourself

-Phillip

 

[scdiveteam]

There is actually two motor options with the cue companion. The weaker motor can definitely be stopped with your hand as I've done this plenty of times. I immediately purchased the bigger motor which is more powerful and cannot be stopped...well atleast not without hurting yourself

-Phillip

I stand corrected. When I purchased mine there was no motor option. Rick