Going undefeated in your league?

As a 7 (high as we go), I went 11 or 12 and 0. Even my own teammates were wanting to see me go down. Got the Top Gun invite, and didn't even go. I just didn't enjoy it. Good job, though. Some people love it. Just not for me.

By the way, never seen you play. You got the eight.

Just kidding (kind of).
 
In the Fall 2009 season I was 11-0 and I was an APA SL 3 in 8ball. I mainly played others 3's and the occasional 4. Now in the Spring 2010 season I have jumped up to a SL 4 and I am 1-7 :( I should be 6-1 but I have shot so awful and gave away so many matches it's really laughable! Other players think I am sandbagging with how bad I am playing and it's funny because I probably couldn't sandbag this good if I was trying! Last night I had the 8-ball hanging in the side pocket (if someone coughed the ball would have dropped) cue ball was 3 feet from the 8-ball, a blind guy with 1 arm and 1 leg could have made the shot and some how I missed the shot! Not like I made it and scratched, I totally missed the ball. Things run in streaks, and if your undefeated be proud and happy about it no matter what SL you are.
 
:smilewinkgrin:
iownthe412 said:
I just wanted to get a feel for how rare or not it is to go undefeated in your league. I am 10 for 10 as of last week in my APA league and I just wanted to know if this is common or not.
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Games or matches?

Someone needs to learn how to sandbag. :grin-angelic:

When I was playing APA I won the first match with a rackless. Was told that I shouldn't do that. Took the advice and never won again. Then quit.
 
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iownthe412 said:
I just wanted to get a feel for how rare or not it is to go undefeated in your league. I am 10 for 10 as of last week in my APA league and I just wanted to know if this is common or not.
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The fact that you are 10-0 proves that the APA handicap system doesn't work.


As for your question, it isn't uncommon at all.
 
I had a win streak of 24 or 27 (can't remember which) yet my winning percent was only ... 82%? or something? This was in the VNEA. We got to play a LOT of games so going undefeated would be a miracle.

Be proud of your win rate and win streaks, and keep an eye on the other stats to see who you need to take out. The guy who taught me, despite not having as high a "power average", had more break and runs and more wins overall. I always wanted to catch him.
 
Bola Ocho said:
The fact that you are 10-0 proves that the APA handicap system doesn't work.


As for your question, it isn't uncommon at all.
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NO No NO no NO no and NO. I enjoy bashing the APA as much as the next guy, but your brazen dismissal is inappropriate and wrong. He SHOULD be proud of his run (BTW Dawg... congrats! I can't string three-in-a-row together).

From what I have experienced firsthand and from opinions on this forum, a seven SHOULD beat ANY OTHER skill level 80-90% of the time, just as the top-tier of ANY organization or tourney or tour SHOULD be a great leap ahead. Even if APA is completely amateur, there still needs to be a pinnacle of the league to strive towards that is damned difficult to attain.

STILL, I have seen 7s that are inconsistant, a few beers under, or careless who LOSE to a 5 or a 6. It happens and that is why DAWG should be proud of his achievement. Anyone can have a hot night or month, but to be consistant is what I aim for. When I reach this consistancy, THEN I can begin see steps appear to the next plateau.

I am a 4 in 8 and 9 and have played for two sessions in APA on three nights. The most memorable match was playing a 7 who soundly (KA-BOOM) kicked my ass. I NEEDED to see what a SOLID player looked like and what he could do, because I was merely working to be better than the average APA bangers before then. Now I play at least 3 hours a day and still have lots of work to do, but because of that particular 7 in this league, I have a better idea of what I am working towards.
 
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au2ag said:
NO No NO no NO no and NO. I enjoy bashing the APA as much as the next guy, but your brazen dismissal is inappropriate and wrong. He SHOULD be proud of his run (BTW Dawg... congrats! I can't string three-in-a-row together).

From what I have experienced firsthand and from opinions on this forum, a seven SHOULD beat ANY OTHER skill level 80-90% of the time, just as the top-tier of ANY organization or tourney or tour SHOULD be a great leap ahead. Even if APA is completely amateur, there still needs to be a pinnacle of the league to strive towards that is damned difficult to attain.

STILL, I have seen 7s that are inconsistant, a few beers under, or careless who LOSE to a 5 or a 6. It happens and that is why DAWG should be proud of his achievement. Anyone can have a hot night or month, but to be consistant is what I aim for. When I reach this consistancy, THEN I can begin see steps appear to the next plateau.

I am a 4 in 8 and 9 and have played for two sessions in APA on three nights. The most memorable match was playing a 7 who soundly (KA-BOOM) kicked my ass. I NEEDED to see what a SOLID player looked like and what he could do, because I was merely working to be better than the average APA bangers before then. Now I play at least 3 hours a day and still have lots of work to do, but because of that particular 7 in this league, I have a better idea of what I am working towards.
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I was in no way, shape or form bashing this person's performance. Instead, I was commenting on how the APA system doesn't work.


In a truly handicapped system, you should always float around 50%. How much over and under .500 depends on how much the system allows for. In the APA, there are many instances of people going on win streaks for long periods of time. There are also others who perpetually lose, with percentages under 15% and don't go down.

This isn't fair. It's not handicapping. It's not what I would call equalizing. Hence the misnomer "The Equalizer" system. A reasonable spread would be 55/45, or maybe even 60/40 at the extreme. In the APA, it can be 100% win percentage without going up in handicap. What a joke. This alone is proof positive that it doesn't work, without having to delve into the inner workings of the system.

To clarify on one thing so that there aren't misunderstandings, players do go up and down - they just don't go up or down fast enough. The response in handicap doesn't match the results. This creates large imbalances at times.



However, there are some flaws in the APA system that can allow a player to go undefeated without ever going up. The only way they could prevent this from happening is if their software rounds the applied-score innings-earned-average down, and how many decimal places it rounds down will dictate how long that theoretical undefeated player can remain at their current handicap.
 
Easy...sometimes

Last session I was on 3 different apa teams, 2 8 ball and 1 9 ball.....I went undefeated on one of the eight ball and the nine ball. I won 6 outta 7 on the other. My combined record was 24-1.
I say this cause I'm agreeing with what was said earlier that a strong 7 should win 90 percent of the time against any skill level.

And I know apa is a joke to most on the site but some of you should try playing a nine ball ball count race with no push or jump shots allowed. Last session I got lucky and didn't have to play any s/l under a 6. If you were to play a 1 you would be spotting 61 points....that is not easy especially on a BB where the 1 can make balls.:)
 
iownthe412 said:
I just wanted to get a feel for how rare or not it is to go undefeated in your league. I am 10 for 10 as of last week in my APA league and I just wanted to know if this is common or not.
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I have had a few seasons over the years where I had 100% wins in my division and won MVP. It's a nice feeling to play that consistent over the season. Some of the matches were nail-biters.

Congrats on your achievement.
 
The APA system is not flawed when you're looking at 6's and 7's. The league in my area is geared towards lower SL's who go up and down at the drop of a hat. But the 6's and 7's in the league are established (as well as most of the 5's). I personally know most of the people in the league and have shot with a lot of them outside of league night and they all shoot the same. It may not work in your area but in mine it does! I have played all 5's, 6's, and 7's that should be right where they are. And beleive me, after the 3 B&R's and 1 8-ball snap I have next week, I'm sure I will be a 7 (self-motivation):eek:. And it's not like I consistently have undefeated seasons. I just got lucky this session!! (maybe);)
 
Not on topic and I hate to drag this thread in this direction, but watch me do it anyway muahruahruahuhahahahdeeuehauehaa

...

right, so, it's true what ocho's saying. A fair handicapping system makes everything a virtual coin flip. I remember grousing at the APA league operator in our area after losing to a 2, that the game felt like a coin toss. The thing is, if they truly found a way to make 50/50 handicapping happen... I don't know that anyone would play. The 7's would feel shafted on pretty much every single loss. The 2's feel like they just got lucky and can't take pride in their wins.

So... even though the APA system isn't making things 50/50, it's fair because the better player should still win if he's playing up to his level. Equalizing things to 50/50 doesn't make things "fair" because it's pretty unjust that a guy who worked 10 years on his game loses to a banger.

I think the system works in the sense that... if you play below your level on any given night, you can lose (like when I scratched on the 8 to give the 2 that win). The 7 SHOULD win 100% of the time but on their bad nights they can and do lose. And a really consistent 5 who never beats 7's but refuses to have a bad night... can win 10 in a row without automatically jumping to a 6. They don't have the knowledge to hang with and beat other 6's but they always bring their 5 game on demand.
 
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I had a streak of 28 wins in 2006. It was BCA league.

About 10 years ago a guy had about 41 straight wins in Valley league.
 
CreeDo said:
Not on topic and I hate to drag this thread in this direction, but watch me do it anyway muahruahruahuhahahahdeeuehauehaa

...

right, so, it's true what ocho's saying. A fair handicapping system makes everything a virtual coin flip. I remember grousing at the APA league operator in our area after losing to a 2, that the game felt like a coin toss. The thing is, if they truly found a way to make 50/50 handicapping happen... I don't know that anyone would play. The 7's would feel shafted on pretty much every single loss. The 2's feel like they just got lucky and can't take pride in their wins.

So... even though the APA system isn't making things 50/50, it's fair because the better player should still win if he's playing up to his level. Equalizing things to 50/50 doesn't make things "fair" because it's pretty unjust that a guy who worked 10 years on his game loses to a banger.

I think the system works in the sense that... if you play below your level on any given night, you can lose (like when I scratched on the 8 to give the 2 that win). The 7 SHOULD win 100% of the time but on their bad nights they can and do lose. And a really consistent 5 who never beats 7's but refuses to have a bad night... can win 10 in a row without automatically jumping to a 6. They don't have the knowledge to hang with and beat other 6's but they always bring their 5 game on demand.
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Some people wouldn't want to play in a 50/50 system because they want to have an edge, and as I have mentioned in past threads about handicapping - a 50/50 type of system means you have to really work hard to win every single match. You don't get any easy matches ever.
When a higher skilled player and a lower skilled player are equalized - it then becomes a contest of who brings their game to the table best. That is, which of the two did best to play their OWN game the best they could.

Every match is a test of your abilities and demands you bring your best in competitive ability. Competitors love this. They have a hunger for it and seek it out. Bangers want easy street. You can always tell a pool player. They're always out to push themselves and actively seek adversity or challenge. As the competitor improves, this means he/she must constantly seek out better players. There's always better players - but playing them doesn't always come cheap. A properly handicapped league provides a venue where a player can feel the pressure and be tested to bring their game each and every match. They may not face the advanced play when playing a weaker player, but the match pressure will be there.

For weaker players, it gives them a chance to match up with stronger players in a format that allows them the opportunity to win if they play their game to the best of their ability. In the process, they get a feel for what it is like to face advanced play on the table. For example, a strong player will kick out of the weaker player's weaker safeties better than opponents of the weaker player's relative skill level. There's less reward for moves like those against strong players than there is against weak players. Hence the statement "that don't work on him" ...
 
How do 3's and 4's win 7 and 8 matches and not get bumped? In our league if you hit a 4 or 5 game winning streak unless you're a 6 or a 7 you go up.
 
Your skill level is based on many things. Including innings and defensive shots not just wins and losses. Just because you have won 4 or 5 matches in a row doesnt make deserving of moving up a skill level. Plus they base your ranking on the best 10 out of 20 matches you played.
 
Bola Ocho,

You couldnt be any more wrong about the system not working (and on a side note you mentioned that if it was a good system it would take into account someones win % when using the applied innings for wins/skill level... in my understanding it absolutely does.) Suprisingly when you look through the numbers (which I have access to) it works very well... Im not towing any company line and have my own grumblings/frustrations about the APA but you couldnt be any further off base when saying it doesnt work as well as could possibly be expected... Yes, there are people that are anomolies in both directions (winning % & losing %) but on the whole, it levels out the field pretty damn well... and like most good systems, the longer a person is involved the more the numbers/system prove themselves... If you want to see some numbers that prove it, I will post them... it was pretty suprising to look at some of them. But aside from the old "numbers don't lie" cliche... truth is.... a more accurate statement would be "results don't lie" (re; APA popularity, profits & membership).... which it would be hard to argue against.
 
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This thread should be deleted as it is totally off subject and the same things have been discussed in the other 40 threads regarding the APA. If you have nothing to say that is on topic in a given thread maybe you shouldn't enter it. I just wanted to get an idea of who has had winning seasons, not an idea of who has beef with the APA. The title of the thread was "Going undefeated in your league?", whichever league that may be. I have issues with the APA, but nothing is perfect, and myself and my team have more fun on league night than I'm sure most teams do, and that is the most important thing. I could honestly care less about most of the opinions in this thread as it was strictly supposed to showcase those people that should be proud of accomplishing a winning season. And for the people who have basically hi-jacked this thread, I'm sure you have never had a season like that and that would be why you are doing your hi-jacking!:eek:
 
iownthe412 said:
This thread should be deleted as it is totally off subject and the same things have been discussed in the other 40 threads regarding the APA. If you have nothing to say that is on topic in a given thread maybe you shouldn't enter it. I just wanted to get an idea of who has had winning seasons, not an idea of who has beef with the APA. The title of the thread was "Going undefeated in your league?", whichever league that may be. I have issues with the APA, but nothing is perfect, and myself and my team have more fun on league night than I'm sure most teams do, and that is the most important thing. I could honestly care less about most of the opinions in this thread as it was strictly supposed to showcase those people that should be proud of accomplishing a winning season. And for the people who have basically hi-jacked this thread, I'm sure you have never had a season like that and that would be why you are doing your hi-jacking!:eek:
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Very well said.
 
iownthe412 said:
This thread should be deleted as it is totally off subject and the same things have been discussed in the other 40 threads regarding the APA. If you have nothing to say that is on topic in a given thread maybe you shouldn't enter it. I just wanted to get an idea of who has had winning seasons, not an idea of who has beef with the APA. The title of the thread was "Going undefeated in your league?", whichever league that may be. I have issues with the APA, but nothing is perfect, and myself and my team have more fun on league night than I'm sure most teams do, and that is the most important thing. I could honestly care less about most of the opinions in this thread as it was strictly supposed to showcase those people that should be proud of accomplishing a winning season. And for the people who have basically hi-jacked this thread, I'm sure you have never had a season like that and that would be why you are doing your hi-jacking!:eek:
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Tap-ity tap tap! :thumbup:
 
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