APA Masters - Format change for Vegas

[The Chipsta]

Just read the rules and found that the format is different this year. Each match is worth a point, not the cumulative game count of the last couple of years. Previous years you could lose the first 2 matches by a narrow margin and still win the match by drilling someone in the last match. Lose the first 2 matches by 7-6 this year and the match is over.

Thoughts? Might change some strategy if the first match doesn't go your way? Might make it tougher on the teams with one powerhouse player (Abood comes to mind).

 

[frankncali]

Just read the rules and found that the format is different this year. Each match is worth a point, not the cumulative game count of the last couple of years. Previous years you could lose the first 2 matches by a narrow margin and still win the match by drilling someone in the last match. Lose the first 2 matches by 7-6 this year and the match is over.

Thoughts? Might change some strategy if the first match doesn't go your way? Might make it tougher on the teams with one powerhouse player (Abood comes to mind).

It hasnt been the smae since they did away with the set being best 2-3 matches of bar table 8ball races to 5.

This is a step in the right direction IMO but I would still like to see it only one discipline.

 

[dabarbr]

Just read the rules and found that the format is different this year. Each match is worth a point, not the cumulative game count of the last couple of years. Previous years you could lose the first 2 matches by a narrow margin and still win the match by drilling someone in the last match. Lose the first 2 matches by 7-6 this year and the match is over.

Thoughts? Might change some strategy if the first match doesn't go your way? Might make it tougher on the teams with one powerhouse player (Abood comes to mind).

I like this change in the rules. Me and my California Amigos are returning to play this year after a four year absence. The four times that we played we placed two firsts one second and one third.
The last time we played they had just introduced nine ball into the mix and Jason Kirkwoods team needed and got six nine ball runouts to beat us in the end.

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

Is it true that the tables are going to be $1.50 starting this year. I heard this from several different people for the last couple years. $1 is bad enough and how are you suppose to insert the $.50? I also heard last year that they might go up to $2, this would be obviously easier but completely out of line. If any of this is true I bid everyone good luck in the casino's out there....:thumbup:

 

[APA Gene]

Is it true that the tables are going to be $1.50 starting this year. I heard this from several different people for the last couple years. $1 is bad enough and how are you suppose to insert the $.50? I also heard last year that they might go up to $2, this would be obviously easier but completely out of line. If any of this is true I bid everyone good luck in the casino's out there....:thumbup:

Not sure where you heard the $1.50 thing. The fliers for the Masters, 8-Ball Doubles, 9-Ball Doubles and other pre-registered events all state $1.00 tables. See link here http://poolplayers.com/documents/2010MastersChamp200910kg_000.pdf :thumbup:

 

[APA Gene]

Just read the rules and found that the format is different this year. Each match is worth a point, not the cumulative game count of the last couple of years. Previous years you could lose the first 2 matches by a narrow margin and still win the match by drilling someone in the last match. Lose the first 2 matches by 7-6 this year and the match is over.

Thoughts? Might change some strategy if the first match doesn't go your way? Might make it tougher on the teams with one powerhouse player (Abood comes to mind).

I like the changes. I think it makes it so more teams have a chance to win even if they don't have a pro caliber player on their roster. It should also help alleviate some of the long drawn out marathon matches that occurred last year. IMO, there is no reason for it to take 5 hours to play 3 matches!

 

[poolhustla61508]

mixed feelings

I like the new change of format but I do think it's ridiculous to have to pay for the games. Open 8 ball and 9 ball doesn't have to pay why should masters? I can understand doubles having to pay for the games because in most cases the doubles teams just won a qualifiying tourney to get there but, when it comes to masters the teams play all year round for the chance to go the same as 8 and 9 ball. masters gets less money to goto vegas and on top of that when they get there they have to pay for the games too?! BULL$HIT!!!!

 

[APA Operator]

Only SOME of the Masters teams play all year. Many enter the same way the doubles teams enter. There aren't enough Masters-level players in many areas to support Masters divisions, but there are players who want to play in the championship, so they are allowed to play.

 

[jlmjmcm]

format

I like the changes. I think it makes it so more teams have a chance to win even if they don't have a pro caliber player on their roster. It should also help alleviate some of the long drawn out marathon matches that occurred last year. IMO, there is no reason for it to take 5 hours to play 3 matches!

They put the new rules in to speed up the matches. In my opinion it doesn't change the fact that 2 evenly matched teams could play 3 matches which could be a marathon. It just takes the weaker teams with one heavy hitter out of the equation.

 

[poolhustla61508]

Only SOME of the Masters teams play all year. Many enter the same way the doubles teams enter. There aren't enough Masters-level players in many areas to support Masters divisions, but there are players who want to play in the championship, so they are allowed to play.

I agree, I was on a masters team 2 years ago that won a buy in tournament to goto vegas.

What I have a problem with is the face that if your team DOES play all year and then wins the tourament to goto vegas, why do you have to stay active in the masters division? 8 ball and 9 ball players don't have to stay active in their divisions to play in vegas except for the mini-manias so why do masters players have to stay active for the main tournament?

The main reason I have a problem with this is my team just won the trip but our area is having big problems getting masters teams together cause no-one wants to play in summer session. Will my team be unable to play if area can't get a masters division?

 

[APA Operator]

I agree, I was on a masters team 2 years ago that won a buy in tournament to goto vegas.

What I have a problem with is the face that if your team DOES play all year and then wins the tourament to goto vegas, why do you have to stay active in the masters division? 8 ball and 9 ball players don't have to stay active in their divisions to play in vegas except for the mini-manias so why do masters players have to stay active for the main tournament?

The main reason I have a problem with this is my team just won the trip but our area is having big problems getting masters teams together cause no-one wants to play in summer session. Will my team be unable to play if area can't get a masters division?

Because the Masters Championship is in the same category as the 8-Ball and 9-Ball doubles championships, it's a pre-registered mini. Incidentally, unless there's something in your local bylaws, you do not have to be on a masters team in the summer to play in the Masters Championship. You do have to be on a team, but it can be a regular 8-Ball or 9-Ball team. This is just like the doubles events.

By the way, the change from point-per-game to point-per-match was indeed to help keep the tournament on schedule. It allows the implementation of sudden-death, which is much harder to do in the point-per-game format.

 

[cookie man]

Because the Masters Championship is in the same category as the 8-Ball and 9-Ball doubles championships, it's a pre-registered mini. Incidentally, unless there's something in your local bylaws, you do not have to be on a masters team in the summer to play in the Masters Championship. You do have to be on a team, but it can be a regular 8-Ball or 9-Ball team. This is just like the doubles events.

By the way, the change from point-per-game to point-per-match was indeed to help keep the tournament on schedule. It allows the implementation of sudden-death, which is much harder to do in the point-per-game format.

The booth messed up last year. Tues night our 7 o'clock match wasn't called until around 10:30, with open tables the whole time, and the other team available. Masters should not be determined by sudden death.

 

[APA Operator]

The booth messed up last year. Tues night our 7 o'clock match wasn't called until around 10:30, with open tables the whole time, and the other team available. Masters should not be determined by sudden death.

I agree, Masters shouldn't be determined by sudden death. Neither should any of the other formats. Masters isn't special, or more important. The players are just more skilled. That doesn't mean they deserve unlimited time to play their matches. The pros use a shot clock, and hardly ever violate it. So why can't the top amateurs keep up a decent pace of play? It shouldn't take six hours to play a team match. Play faster and Masters WON'T be determined by sudden death.

I don't know if the control table missed a match or not last year, because I wasn't there. But just because you see an empty table, it doesn't necessarily mean your match could be called to that table. Every table in that room is earmarked for a single use - some belong to minimania, some belong to the pre-registered tournament(s). The staff cannot just pick a table that appears to be open - it has to be one of their tables.

Regardless, sudden death isn't for that kind of delay. It's for the delay caused by slow play, and that's the only instance in which it will be used. If your match is called late you still get the full allotment of time before sudden death.

 

[frankncali]

I agree, Masters shouldn't be determined by sudden death. Neither should any of the other formats. Masters isn't special, or more important. The players are just more skilled. That doesn't mean they deserve unlimited time to play their matches. The pros use a shot clock, and hardly ever violate it. So why can't the top amateurs keep up a decent pace of play? It shouldn't take six hours to play a team match. Play faster and Masters WON'T be determined by sudden death.

I don't know if the control table missed a match or not last year, because I wasn't there. But just because you see an empty table, it doesn't necessarily mean your match could be called to that table. Every table in that room is earmarked for a single use - some belong to minimania, some belong to the pre-registered tournament(s). The staff cannot just pick a table that appears to be open - it has to be one of their tables.

Regardless, sudden death isn't for that kind of delay. It's for the delay caused by slow play, and that's the only instance in which it will be used. If your match is called late you still get the full allotment of time before sudden death.

Do you really think that there is not differences while moving up in levels of play? With the increase in play there is always a difference in rules, regulations and length.

I enjoy the masters but for a few years now it has been going downhill. Hopefully it can be straightened out. Its one of the only things a higher skill level player can look forward to that is even and open.

Even with my above thoughts I agree with time limits. They are needed and shouldn't be an issue with the playres. Sudden death is too extreme if you ask me. Maybe just reduce the last set a little.

 

[APA Operator]

Do you really think that there is not differences while moving up in levels of play? With the increase in play there is always a difference in rules, regulations and length.

I enjoy the masters but for a few years now it has been going downhill. Hopefully it can be straightened out. Its one of the only things a higher skill level player can look forward to that is even and open.

Even with my above thoughts I agree with time limits. They are needed and shouldn't be an issue with the playres. Sudden death is too extreme if you ask me. Maybe just reduce the last set a little.

I didn't say there weren't differences. I said Masters isn't special or more important. It's an event, just like the others, that has to be scheduled to fit with everything else (including mini-mania) in the time and space available. If you increase the time allotted to the Masters event, you have to take that time away from something else.

Sudden death is supposed to be extreme. It's supposed to be something nobody wants, so everyone will do what is necessary to avoid it. It is also supposed to make a significant time correction for a match that has fallen behind schedule. Reducing the last set just a little probably accomplishes neither of those objectives.

Personally, I don't think shortening the last race (even to one) accomplishes both goals - I think that will slow down the team with the weaker third player. The only real way to stop slow play is to provide a referee and a shot clock for every match. Unfortunately, resources and logistics make that impractical.

There is another solution being considered, but it's a little complicated and the details haven't yet been worked out, so it's too late to implement this year. This solution involves adjusting the race for each individual match based on the time taken to play the previous match(es). For example, if your first set takes a little longer than it should have, the second set might be a race to six instead of seven. If that's enough to make up the time difference, then the third would be a full race. The more you get behind, the shorter the next race is. This solution would have to be implemented through the referees, by giving them some sort of chart they could use to look up the length of the next race.

 

[cookie man]

I agree, Masters shouldn't be determined by sudden death. Neither should any of the other formats. Masters isn't special, or more important. The players are just more skilled. That doesn't mean they deserve unlimited time to play their matches. The pros use a shot clock, and hardly ever violate it. So why can't the top amateurs keep up a decent pace of play? It shouldn't take six hours to play a team match. Play faster and Masters WON'T be determined by sudden death.

I don't know if the control table missed a match or not last year, because I wasn't there. But just because you see an empty table, it doesn't necessarily mean your match could be called to that table. Every table in that room is earmarked for a single use - some belong to minimania, some belong to the pre-registered tournament(s). The staff cannot just pick a table that appears to be open - it has to be one of their tables.

Regardless, sudden death isn't for that kind of delay. It's for the delay caused by slow play, and that's the only instance in which it will be used. If your match is called late you still get the full allotment of time before sudden death.

I know we sat around for over 3 hours with at least 12 tables not used the entire time. If our table was earmarked for 3 hours after our official start time why weren't we told to come back later instead of you have to wait here until your match is called.

 

[APA Operator]

I know we sat around for over 3 hours with at least 12 tables not used the entire time. If our table was earmarked for 3 hours after our official start time why weren't we told to come back later instead of you have to wait here until your match is called.

Like I said, I don't know anything about your specific situation, as I wasn't there. What I do know is that if a match is being held up for some reason, that reason would be given to those who are forced to wait. It takes some pretty patient people to sit there for three hours without asking why they have to wait.