Agreed...I'm really surprised nothing was done about it...
Possible cheating AzB'er at Denver Open last night?
- Thread starter Kickin' Chicken
- Start date
Agreed...I'm really surprised nothing was done about it...
sure sounds like one where we need to hear the rest of the story.
Brian,
Thanks for naming a name. I've never had any impression Bill was that kind of a guy so I suspect there is a little more to the story. Maybe not but this is one I want to hear both sides of before making any call. Obviously we aren't going to hear it on the stream but maybe when Bill gets back on the forum.
Hu
I've been called lots of things before but never a shrinking violet...
If I ponied up money for an entry fee to play in a tourney and someone tried to get over on me by taking an extra bead, I'm pretty sure there would be a problem.
The guy who we are discussing, his name is Bill Meacham, AzB member "Island Drive" (maybe it's with a space or a hyphen).
Strangely, at this very moment he is co-commentating on the Bigtruck stream with Ray. I tried twice on the chat to ask Meacham about it but was asked by Ray not to. I'm guessing it was awkward. I am a big fan of Rays and his Bigtruck stream. I honored his request to drop it.
So there you have it, maybe someone here on AzB who knows him can ask what happened. The rail already seems to know what went down; but I'm sure they would be interested to hear why...
Best,
Brian kc
Brian,
Thanks for naming a name. I've never had any impression Bill was that kind of a guy so I suspect there is a little more to the story. Maybe not but this is one I want to hear both sides of before making any call. Obviously we aren't going to hear it on the stream but maybe when Bill gets back on the forum.
Hu
I once was beating a guy 6-4 when all of a sudden he looks up and says "you moved two beads" I said "wtf are talking about- you are out of your mind." The last thing im gonna do is cheat in some $200 first prize tournament-really any tournament of course.
So now he goes up to the tournament director and Im fuming and the TD comes to me and says i have to name every nine ball that i made. My memory sucks and im so friggin mad i couldnt even think- i couldnt instantly name all the nines i made. I couldnt even come up with 4 of them. It was this guys home pool room btw and they made me take a bead down.
Long story short I win and after the match i get a piece of paper and pen and it took me 10 minutes or so but i finally remembered all 8 nine balls that i made- I then went over to the guy and recited each one from the paper. He didn't dispute any of them but still wouldn't admit he was wrong.
I never wanted to punch anyone as much as this guy and i saw him around for the next year or so and the site of him alone made me nuts. Im friggin on tilt now just thinking of it.
Thankfully he quit the game or moved as after a year or so i never saw him again.
So now he goes up to the tournament director and Im fuming and the TD comes to me and says i have to name every nine ball that i made. My memory sucks and im so friggin mad i couldnt even think- i couldnt instantly name all the nines i made. I couldnt even come up with 4 of them. It was this guys home pool room btw and they made me take a bead down.
Long story short I win and after the match i get a piece of paper and pen and it took me 10 minutes or so but i finally remembered all 8 nine balls that i made- I then went over to the guy and recited each one from the paper. He didn't dispute any of them but still wouldn't admit he was wrong.
I never wanted to punch anyone as much as this guy and i saw him around for the next year or so and the site of him alone made me nuts. Im friggin on tilt now just thinking of it.
Thankfully he quit the game or moved as after a year or so i never saw him again.
Seems to me that Ray needs to realize that there are negative parts to the game and they're going to be pointed out. If I'm assuming correctly, he's giving zilla a hard time about a thread he started and now doesn't want to talk about something else that happened. Next time you talk to Ray, advise him that this is the real world, not Ray's rose colored glasses world.
Things that are not positives, like red cloth & chalk, along with what appears to be cheating, are parts of real life and he can't expect the masses to over look the issue simply because he happens to be the person running the stream.
Seems to me that Ray needs to realize that there are negative parts to the game and they're going to be pointed out. If I'm assuming correctly, he's giving zilla a hard time about a thread he started and now doesn't want to talk about something else that happened. Next time you talk to Ray, advise him that this is the real world, not Ray's rose colored glasses world.
Things that are not positives, like red cloth & chalk, along with what appears to be cheating, are parts of real life and he can't expect the masses to over look the issue simply because he happens to be the person running the stream.
When I came back for my 2nd pass at this on the chat I told Ray that although it might be awkward, I thought it was a fair question to ask. He asked me to drop it and so I did.
It's Ray's stream and, therefore, I would have to say it's his call. I don't believe Mr. Meacham was able to see the chat and so it was between Ray, me, and the viewers. Maybe Ray did not want to detract from the players in the match who were up on the stream. Awkward, bad timing, whatever... I respect his decision to ask that this not be aired out on his stream.
I'm sure we will hear more on this sometime soon.
Best,
Brian kc
I didn't see what happened, but is everybody sure this is not a case of Bill forgetting to move one bead over after winning a rack, and then after winning another rack..................moving two over to account for the first possibly forgotton one?
The reason I ask, is that I lost a very tough one to Bill 7-5 in the first round, and although it was the first time I had ever met him, he came across as a really nice guy and not the 'type' to pull something like that.
In Japan, the clearly announce during the players meetings that after winning a rack, if you do not advance your score before the break of the next rack, you won't get that game. It's automatic, so players don't even argue about it.
dave
The reason I ask, is that I lost a very tough one to Bill 7-5 in the first round, and although it was the first time I had ever met him, he came across as a really nice guy and not the 'type' to pull something like that.
In Japan, the clearly announce during the players meetings that after winning a rack, if you do not advance your score before the break of the next rack, you won't get that game. It's automatic, so players don't even argue about it.
dave
Tommy Tokoph was the "other guy" and he got on the stream late last night and told his side which is basically what happened according to others as well. My belief is you only played 2 games.... this is not rocket science. How would there be 3 games on the beads then. "Where did you make the 9 balls sir?" "What pocket did you make 2 9 balls in sir"
Yea there would have been a problem. It really hurt Tommy to, due the fact it went hill hill and Tommy lost. Talk about being hot!
Yea there would have been a problem. It really hurt Tommy to, due the fact it went hill hill and Tommy lost. Talk about being hot!
Dave,
It occurred to me as well. Same thing happened yesterday in an event in Buffalo. Much to my amazement, it was my opponent who moved the second counter over for me. Guess being a senior citizen does have its benefits! There still are a few "good guys" out there! And a few bad ones as well.
Lyn
I agree with you Frank. It has been years, but as you know whenever he came up from Long Beach it was to try and get you or me down. Like you, I have played Bill many times without a problem.
I believe he was trying to make a point about getting away with calls when there was not a referee present.
I would like to hear his side.
That's what it sounds like but still he took it too far.(apparently)
cheating???
Been corresponding with Bill for a couple of years now... additionally, Bill spent a week or so as a guest under my roof.
I'd be hard pressed to believe there's anything in Bill's character that would allow him to intentionally pull this kind of move. In any case, Bill certainly should be given the chance to voice his take before being hung out to dry.
Bob Hyde
Been corresponding with Bill for a couple of years now... additionally, Bill spent a week or so as a guest under my roof.
I'd be hard pressed to believe there's anything in Bill's character that would allow him to intentionally pull this kind of move. In any case, Bill certainly should be given the chance to voice his take before being hung out to dry.
Bob Hyde
I've played Bill a lot. Travelled with Bill and talked with him a lot both around and outside of pool. I have never seen him do anything like this. I agree with the others who have said that there might be more to this story. I'll reserve judgement until I hear his version as well.
One timw I was playing in a tournament at Tournaments in Denver and my opponent accused me of having too many beads up. I argued with him until finally he relented and we started the next game and I won the match. Then my friend called me over and said "he's right. You cheated". I immediately gave the game back and forfeited the match, even though I still couldn't believe that I was wrong. So we counted nine balls and sure enough, I had remembered one wrong. I told My friend that I really thought I was right. He said "I know, if I thought you did that on purpose I'd never have anything to do with you again and anytime anyone mentioned your name the only thing I'll say about you is "he cheats at the pool table.". Pretty strong message. Not sure what this has to do with this situation but it just reminded me of it.
~rc
One timw I was playing in a tournament at Tournaments in Denver and my opponent accused me of having too many beads up. I argued with him until finally he relented and we started the next game and I won the match. Then my friend called me over and said "he's right. You cheated". I immediately gave the game back and forfeited the match, even though I still couldn't believe that I was wrong. So we counted nine balls and sure enough, I had remembered one wrong. I told My friend that I really thought I was right. He said "I know, if I thought you did that on purpose I'd never have anything to do with you again and anytime anyone mentioned your name the only thing I'll say about you is "he cheats at the pool table.". Pretty strong message. Not sure what this has to do with this situation but it just reminded me of it.
~rc
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cheating???
sorry, duplicate post
Bob Hyde
sorry, duplicate post
Bob Hyde
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He certainly does deserve a chance to give his side.
It will be interesting to see how it squares with what his opponent, Tommy T., had to say as well as what the railbirds say they saw (and heard).
I'll say it is encouraging to see that he has had such good dealings and relations with a number of AzB'ers.
Best,
Brian kc
It will be interesting to see how it squares with what his opponent, Tommy T., had to say as well as what the railbirds say they saw (and heard).
I'll say it is encouraging to see that he has had such good dealings and relations with a number of AzB'ers.
Best,
Brian kc
It's not cheating to make an honest mistake. Nor is it cheating to believe you didn't make a mistake enough to defend your action vigorously.
It is however gracious to think about it and perhaps agree to a compromise. Such as moving the beads back and replaying the game.
On one of Lenny's streams Mark Griffen was playing someone in Arizona a RACE to 2 in one pocket and Mark wins the first game and the other player wins the second game and the other player then thinks he won the match - AND MARK AGREES!!!!!
People get old.
Sunny had to tell Mark that they still had a game to play. UNBELIEVABLY they went so far as to review the video to confirm that they had only played TWO games.
So it happens.
I have also never known Bill Meacham to be anything other than straightforward. He can have an irritating attitude sometimes but does not strike me as the type of person who will steal games.
It is however gracious to think about it and perhaps agree to a compromise. Such as moving the beads back and replaying the game.
On one of Lenny's streams Mark Griffen was playing someone in Arizona a RACE to 2 in one pocket and Mark wins the first game and the other player wins the second game and the other player then thinks he won the match - AND MARK AGREES!!!!!
People get old.
Sunny had to tell Mark that they still had a game to play. UNBELIEVABLY they went so far as to review the video to confirm that they had only played TWO games.
So it happens.
I have also never known Bill Meacham to be anything other than straightforward. He can have an irritating attitude sometimes but does not strike me as the type of person who will steal games.
Interesting. Thanks for letting us know about this.
It's not cheating to make an honest mistake. Nor is it cheating to believe you didn't make a mistake enough to defend your action vigorously.
It is however gracious to think about it and perhaps agree to a compromise. Such as moving the beads back and replaying the game.
On one of Lenny's streams Mark Griffen was playing someone in Arizona a RACE to 2 in one pocket and Mark wins the first game and the other player wins the second game and the other player then thinks he won the match - AND MARK AGREES!!!!!
People get old.
Sunny had to tell Mark that they still had a game to play. UNBELIEVABLY they went so far as to review the video to confirm that they had only played TWO games.
So it happens.
I have also never known Bill Meacham to be anything other than straightforward. He can have an irritating attitude sometimes but does not strike me as the type of person who will steal games.
I've done the same thing and I'm only 35. I was playing a charity tournament which was only race to 3 in 9 ball. Me and the guy figure there is no need for counting since it's only a race to three. Well we play the first two games so horribly we thought we had played more than two games. We had to take a break to think about what the score was before coming to the conclusion that it was 1-1.
John, I think you are right on the money with this one. But wouldn't you think he would correct it after he made his point if he was simply making a point?
One more thing, Bill called Tommy a cheater after the set (even though he took the extra game), so Bill did believe he was wronged during the 1st game, but I did not see that part.
Dave
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