Can you truly call the APA a success?

[LeagueGuy]

Exactly. From what I've seen from the answers to my question, making money alone is enough to call it a success. I have always viewed success as accomplishing all of your goals, which is why I don't call the APA a success.

You are basing your opinion of success on their initial reasoning to create a fan base for the profession game.

I actually belive they have done that.

When you factor in all league players, of which the APA is by far the largest, they have in fact built a fan base there are probably close to 500,000 amateur players playing pool now and we have a prety good idea where to find them (legaues, regional tours, national amateur evets). In my opinion, the pro players have not properly used this fan base.

I work as the director of marketing for a company. If I got a list of 500,000 or more potential customers and I was told where to find them and my company made very few or no sales to those people, I would not blame the person who gave me the list, I would blame my sales people for not doing their job.

The fact that the pro game has not grown can not be blamed on the APA or its founders, it should be blamed on the players and the so called associations that have all the info they need to market the game and have been completely unable to do so.

if it were me and I was running a regional tour or a pro event, the first thing i would do is to find all the APA, BCA, VNEA and TAP L.O withing 150 miles and ask if they would put a flier in their envelopes for my event. I would in turn offer free or discounted admission to anyone who holds a membership card from those leagues. The event wins with higher exposure and the L.O. wins a value added benefit to being a member.

Just some thoughts.

Leagueguy

 

[Scott Lee]

League Guy...I find it interesting that when I was an LO (I got out in '95), there were 150K members, and the corporate goal, was to reach 1 million by 2000. Here it is 15 years later, and they have nearly doubled their membership, but still are nowhere close to a million. Sadly, I don't think they will ever reach that number...nor will any other league.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

My L.O. told me that the APA goal was to get to 1 million members in the next 15 years. Based on the fact that they seem to be well short, thus if you ask the higherups at the APA, they may think that they are not as successful as they should be.

Leagueguy

 

[LeagueGuy]

League Guy...I find it interesting that when I was an LO (I got out in '95), there were 150K members, and the corporate goal, was to reach 1 million by 2000. Here it is 15 years later, and they have nearly doubled their membership, but still are nowhere close to a million. Sadly, I don't think they will ever reach that number...nor will any other league.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks Scott.

That is interesting information. It just goes to show that while we debate on-line whether they are succesful or not, they probably have a totally different perspective on things internally.

leagueguy

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

League Guy...I find it interesting that when I was an LO (I got out in '95), there were 150K members, and the corporate goal, was to reach 1 million by 2000. Here it is 15 years later, and they have nearly doubled their membership, but still are nowhere close to a million. Sadly, I don't think they will ever reach that number...nor will any other league.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Well they had a goal, and are making slow progress on reaching it. Better than being stagnant.

Trying is better than quitting, and the APAis still trying real hard in the Valley of the Sun to attract APA MEMBER! Spending lots of MONEY EACH month in the Two Pool Rags of Half Page Color Ads.

BCAPL is not even in the same category IMHO in their marketing in the Valley of the Sun..

 

[TimKrazyMon]

You are basing your opinion of success on their initial reasoning to create a fan base for the profession game.

I actually belive they have done that.

When you factor in all league players, of which the APA is by far the largest, they have in fact built a fan base there are probably close to 500,000 amateur players playing pool now and we have a prety good idea where to find them (legaues, regional tours, national amateur evets). In my opinion, the pro players have not properly used this fan base.

I work as the director of marketing for a company. If I got a list of 500,000 or more potential customers and I was told where to find them and my company made very few or no sales to those people, I would not blame the person who gave me the list, I would blame my sales people for not doing their job.

The fact that the pro game has not grown can not be blamed on the APA or its founders, it should be blamed on the players and the so called associations that have all the info they need to market the game and have been completely unable to do so.

if it were me and I was running a regional tour or a pro event, the first thing i would do is to find all the APA, BCA, VNEA and TAP L.O withing 150 miles and ask if they would put a flier in their envelopes for my event. I would in turn offer free or discounted admission to anyone who holds a membership card from those leagues. The event wins with higher exposure and the L.O. wins a value added benefit to being a member.

Just some thoughts.

Leagueguy

You assume that they would give that list out. They hide behind the Privacy Act (in no small part due to their fear the pros would give/sell that list to VNEA & BCAPL). While I do not hold the pros totally blameless (should've switched to 10-ball way sooner), APA could do so much more. If Mark Griffin can have TWO pro events during BCAPL Nationals, the least APA could've done was host a WPBA Tour event at their Nationals. Not getting more pros involved in APA is where, IMHO, the ball was dropped.

 

[LeagueGuy]

You assume that they would give that list out. They hide behind the Privacy Act (in no small part due to their fear the pros would give/sell that list to VNEA & BCAPL). While I do not hold the pros totally blameless (should've switched to 10-ball way sooner), APA could do so much more. If Mark Griffin can have TWO pro events during BCAPL Nationals, the least APA could've done was host a WPBA Tour event at their Nationals. Not getting more pros involved in APA is where, IMHO, the ball was dropped.

I agree with the last part of your post that they could do more with the Nationals. They have an professional artistic pool tournament every year but nothing beyond that. i actually think that at one point they did do something (but I am not 100% sure of that).

As for a list, I agree with what you said about the APA not handing out a list however you do not need an actual list to make it happen. You have acces to all those league players through the L.O. network. L.O's are very easy to find.

I would expect the majority of L.O. would be 100% on board supporting a tour event as it would be avalue added for them and their membership.

It just takes someone to make it happen. It would be interesting to find out if n san Diego and other, the APA members are informed about the WPBA event and if any kind of incentice is given to get those members to go and watch the event.

Maybe someone from those areas could post and let us know.

leagueguy

 

[TimKrazyMon]

I agree with the last part of your post that they could do more with the Nationals. They have an professional artistic pool tournament every year but nothing beyond that. i actually think that at one point they did do something (but I am not 100% sure of that).

As for a list, I agree with what you said about the APA not handing out a list however you do not need an actual list to make it happen. You have acces to all those league players through the L.O. network. L.O's are very easy to find.

I would expect the majority of L.O. would be 100% on board supporting a tour event as it would be avalue added for them and their membership.

It just takes someone to make it happen. It would be interesting to find out if n san Diego and other, the APA members are informed about the WPBA event and if any kind of incentice is given to get those members to go and watch the event.

Maybe someone from those areas could post and let us know.

leagueguy

I can remember the last time the WPBA had a stop in NC, it was a struggle to find where tickets were sold. I couldn't find any info on tickets on my league website or at poolplayers.com. Couldn't even find it at the WPBA site either. I had to go to the host location's website to find ticket info.

 

[pdcue]

You misunderstood that I wasn't looking for a "correct" answer. I simply wanted to see if people thought that the APA was a complete success despite failing at one of its fundamental goals. Based on the responses, I'd say that answer is a resounding yes.

Tim(accomplished at the comprehension part)

Which once again proves that you don't have a clue about
comprehension and you are indeed a troll of the worst description.

What you really got, and it surely seems what you wanted in the first place, was a thread full of *****in-g about the APA.

But thanks for stopping in.

Dale<able to see through lame rationalizations>

 

[TimKrazyMon]

Which once again proves that you don't have a clue about
comprehension and you are indeed a troll of the worst description.

What you really got, and it surely seems what you wanted in the first place, was a thread full of *****in-g about the APA.

But thanks for stopping in.

Dale<able to see through lame rationalizations>

You are partially right, I did get something I wanted. LeagueGuy & I had a healthy discussion regarding my question & while we still disagree on some aspects, we at least were capable of respecting the other's viewpoint. I guess that begs the question why can't you?

You sit there saying all I wanted was a b***h session about APA when I just simply asked a question. It would seem clear that with you either A) anyone who disagrees with you is a troll, or B) anyone who disagrees with the popular viewpointlove2:APA) is a troll. In either case, this clearly has made you incapable of any intellectual debate at all. However, your opinion has been duly noted.


Tim(able to see the real trolls)

 

[Jimbojim]

I don't play in the league (its called CPA here in Canada) but I have a few friends who do and I usually go there on their league nights to hang out with them and play a few sets while they wait for their league matches.

Now, I'm not too familiar yet with the system but I think they try to recruit a lot of very weak players and a very small amount of strong players which really blows I think. I don't think much of the players understand the basic principles of the game from what I saw.

I also remember one of my friends saying his coach didn't want him to play his best because he would go higher in ranks so therefore he would not be allowed to play in the team anymore. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???

I MUCH prefer the FQSB we have here (im not trying to sell this thing but I just want to explain how it works)

It works with the caliber of the player and it goes this way :
C= 1499 points and less
B= 1500 points up to 1699
A= 1700 to 1899
AA= 1900 to 2099
AAA= 2100 to 2299
Semi Professional= 2300 to 2499
Professional= 2500 and higher

To join the federation you need to have a 'Reference Ticket' from a skilled player who will evaluate you and give you your starting class so you can join the tournament of the appropriate class. Until you have reached a number of 300 games (racks) your 'ranking' is temporary and it fluctuates a lot more so you get to be used to tournament play and make sure that you are not sharking.

Once your rank is permanent, you can never go lower in the classes even if your points go lower than the thresholdyour present class( it just makes it harder to go back up)

Example of the scoring system:

Lets take 2 AA players with the 2000 points each

Player X wins against player Y with the score = 9-6
Player X would get 7 points out of that match: 2 points from each rack difference plus 1 point for winning the match and the player Y would lose 6 points.

Now lets say you have one player with 1950(X) and the other with 2050(Y) and player Y wins the match 9-7.
2 racks difference would give 4 points and 1 extra for winning the match but because the player X had less points ( I don't know the exact calculations for that though) player Y would have 1 or 2 points(it varies depending on the difference) deducted from his win because he beat a 'weaker' player...the opposite is also in effect if a weaker player beats a stronger player.

A player can always play in HIS class and higher but NEVER lower. An A player can play in A-AA-AAA-Semi pro- Pro (its up to the player to bring his best game if he wants to compete against stronger players) So he couldn't play in B and C because he wouldn't be fair.

I'm ranked AA and I went to play in a Pro tournament once to challenge myself and I had 1920 point and he had 2780 points. I lost 11-8 and got 15 points because the statistics says that I should have lost like 11-1 or 11-2 but I was rewarded points because of my performance.

We have all the stats in the internet for the players to see and its very detailed. As you can see, it takes much more than one tournament win to change class...an good improvement on your skills will make you go higher.

Pretty simple, isn't it?

 

[poolcuewarehous]

Why even ask the ?

Why even ask the ? great success! get lost! another bad post!