Mud Ball be damned!

I saw a double elimination bracket for either 32 or 64 players at Frank's Billiard Center... $89. :eek:

Beer distributors used to give them out to the bars for free. Wouldn't hurt to ask local distributors.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Does anyone know if mudballs are being used in any top amateur or pro barbox tourneys? And if not, why?

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...
For the same reason they don't use Ivory or Bakelite.:p
They are out dated.
They have been replace with new technology. A couple of times over.:rolleyes:
I bet the new league won't be using the oversize ball.

By the way the real mudball is not oversized, it is heavy works by weight returns by activating a spring lever like in old dynamo tables.
The oversize is what you have works by size.
 
dareads said:
Grab a copy of the Eight Ball Bible and you will be amazed at some of the things you can do with the mud ball. After reading that book I had a desire to play with a mud ball to see if I could do some of the shots in the book.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think the author, R. Givens, was talking specifically about overweight cue balls (i.e. the aforementioned Aramith Red Dot Dynamo in post #10). He actually recommends it by name all over the place in the book.

I'm not sure the term "mudball" is interchangeable with a mere overweight cue ball. If I recall correctly, "mudball" describes a specific type of plugged cue ball, that has a beige-ish pure matte finish to it (due to the type of polymer used in it -- methinks polyester). It may or may not even be an oversized (i.e. "grapefruit") ball, which has its own special characteristics.

But for sure, R. Givens great work "The 8-ball Bible" is a MUST HAVE for bar table play. That set of chapters on how to leverage the unique abilities of the overweight cue ball is alone worth the price of admission. (Heck, just to know how to exploit "smash-through" shots, in both regular and combination shots, is worth the book's price!)

Thoughts?
-Sean
 
Mudballs

They are from the 50's, 60's, and early 70's, and like it has been said, they are outdated a couple of times over. Pool rooms don't have mudballs, just old dilapidated bars do, that haven't ever updated their equipment. I haven't gone to bars for the last 16-17 years, and I only play in a regular Pool room.

Wanting to learn how to play with a mudball today, would be like wanting to learn computing on an old Commodore 64!!!

This does bring up another point though, should bars that participate in league play be made to have updated equipment that is kept in good condition in order to be a member of the league?
 
Snapshot9 said:
This does bring up another point though, should bars that participate in league play be made to have updated equipment that is kept in good condition in order to be a member of the league?
Click to expand...

I think they should. As a prior pool room/bar owner we did our best to keep equipment in good order. That old mud ball was std size, not oversize. It had a greenish/gray tint and it was heavy and always dull looking. I think the rough surface was mostly the cause (to much cloth friction) to draw the ball very well especially at any distance.

We used the red dot on dynamos. It was very heavy as well but because it retained a shiny surface with a good stroke draw was not a problem. For tournaments we opened up the tables and used a red circle.

Rod
 
Maniac said:
Brian,

I think what a few of the posters are tactfully trying to imply here is that you are winning your share of the tournaments yet still are looking to "better the odds" so to speak. If you make an even BETTER showing than you already have, you are certainly going to run off many of the lesser skilled players until the tourney dwindles down and eventually withers away. Trust me, I've seen this happen in more than one bar. If it were me, I'd just use the equipment the bar offers and be damn happy to win basically every other tournament.

Maniac
Click to expand...

Maniac;

I have reread some of the posts in this thread and yours is striking a nerve with me. I pride myself on being a fair and reasonable person and always trying to do the right thing. Maybe, given my success there, I am in a way robbing by playing this tourney on a regular basis. I maintain that there are always some good players competing there but it's never more than a handful.

So, to be fair, I'm going to pass on the remaining tourneys there, however, they have asked me to be on their new league team which I very well might. The convenience of where they're located is real tempting.

As for mudballs, I still may end up getting a couple of the new Aramiths for there though I will consult with the team first. I like what Hu has said regarding getting these dinosaur eggs to work for you but it does open up a whole other potential can of worms for me. Besides not liking the mudball, generally, we as students of the game are taught that successful repitition is a good thing. Can it be hurting our games in any meaningful way to play regular cue balls a certain way then switch up how we stroke because of different expectations with the markedly different mudballs? Is this overthinking?

I'm enjoying reading about the many differences in the various cueballs, much of which, I did not know. :smile:

Best,
Brian kc
 
Last edited:
Kickin' Chicken said:
I'm enjoying reading about the many differences in the various cueballs, much of which, I did not know. :smile:

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...

and so probably my use of the word "mudball" is inaccurate in that the ones used at the tourney are larger than the object balls.

see, I'm learnable. lol!

Best,
Brian kc
 
I learned to play with an oversize ball. every table I played on was either a heavy ball or oversize. I didn't even know the difference untill about 3 years ago when I moved to fargo and went to my first pool hall that actually had nice equipment. wow, what a difference, it changed my whole game. I love shooting on nice equipment now, but I think I'll always still be able the throw that old mudball around the table...:D
 
mnb said:
Does anyone sell this mudball?

Or is it the same thing as the Aramith Red Dot Dynamo?
Click to expand...

I doubt you could find a new mud ball, they are old. The red dot is easy to find. The are vastly different balls but both are heavy.

Rod
 
consider snooker and three cushion

Kickin' Chicken said:
and so probably my use of the word "mudball" is inaccurate in that the ones used at the tourney are larger than the object balls.

see, I'm learnable. lol!

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...


Brian,

Snooker balls are smaller and lighter but I can say first hand mixing some practice on a snooker table with your regular pool stick in can help your game. Many people report jumps in their pool games when they take up three cushion too which I think is basically using three of the big mud balls. I think it is like all of the big table/small table, normal range/tight pocket debates. Variety is good. When you spend all of your time using equipment you don't usually compete with it makes subtle changes in your game that can harm your game though.

You will play different and I think better patterns using the mud ball. However to play exactly the same pattern with a standard cue ball you will have to hit it slightly differently. Staying tuned with both is the key.

Hu
 
For brackets, go to the 'downloads' section of www.playpool.com.. They have several different brackets available. I take the brackets to Staples and have them printed on larger sheets. You can have them laminated and use dry-erase markers as well. I think it costs maybe $1 or $2 for a 36" wide copy, and maybe an extra $4 to have it laminated.
 
As I recall, the term "mud ball" referred to the old clay balls that were played with some years back. The large cue balls I have played with were a resin based ball, while the regulation sized heavy CBs were weighted, or magnetic depending on the table.

Part of this transition to new equipment is fueled because many pool room players couldn't beat Alice on a bar table, and in the 60s and 70s, thats where most of the action occured. Top players could play on anything, but short stops and regular players might not win on a bar table with the big ball against a good bar player. Especially 8 ball.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Wanting to learn how to play with a mudball today, would be like wanting to learn computing on an old Commodore 64!!!
Click to expand...

so does it bother you that i'm typing this on my 'classic' Tandy 8086 laptop ?
wanting to LEARN anything can only expand you . . .
 
Not to question your integrity but it seems like Maniac hit the nail on the head. Whether you intend to or not you are robbing this tourny. Most B tournys around here would not invite you back with that kind of winning consistency. I wouldn't bar myself from the tourny if they are still allowing you to play. Just go play, have fun, learn a little, and use the equipment they provide.

League play is totally different. I carry around an aramith and a valley regulation cueball for my league teams when we travel to bars such as this.

I had a similar tournament experience to this several months ago. I showed up to a tourny that was a race to 1 bar rules. Call shot, kiss, scratch behind the string, everything. Almost the entire field was bangers with exception to three or four guys like myself that were between SL4 and SL6. As soon as a few of the regular players played any type of defense or strategy we were informed that type of play wasn't allowed. Well turns out the players still did ok in the tourny. As soon as we played by "their" rules they were happy and we all had fun.

Pool players by nature have a tendency to become home room champions. If you change any little bit of equipment they are used to or the routines they play with, they are usually jarred. I love traveling to different bars and rooms and playing as many tournys like this as I can as it makes me a little better pool player every time I do it. I've had to deal with everything from girls flashing me to get me to miss to playing on a table supported by milk crates. In the end it has made my mental game much tougher and made me much more consistent in my game.

So the point of this is, sometimes different isn't always worse. Just realize the handicap of the situation and the limitations of your game and roll with it.
 
This issue constantly reminds me that some in the Billiards Industry just care about getting my quarters in the table.Billiards industry includes local bars and rooms to vendors and manufacturers.Cost cutting and profit margins trumping standardization and clean repeatable conditions for players to try and reach their highest limits of performance.In this day and age there should be no reason for poor quality knock-off cue balls or design flaws in tables that may require them.It's a definite dumbing down of the game.

I've seen and can play with any size cue ball,but do I want to?I don't hate the "mudball" for what I can or can't do with it,I hate it for for what it represents.How do I not feel like I'm being robbed if I walk into a place and the cue ball is oversize,the surface texture is slightly porous,or it weighs 15%to20% more than the object balls?

To this point,this why I like Diamond products.Quality,never satisfied with the status quo.Responsibility to the WHOLE of the billiards community.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top