My Take On Aiming Systems

8pack said:
Post up a diagram.
Im willing to try,i think i can maybe make 30,40 maybe 100 in a roll.
Who knows!


(I would like to see a video of one of these guys -- that are on every CTE thread claiming how great and exact and perfect and wonderful it is (you knows who you is) -- shoot off 30 or 40 shots reasonably difficult shots without a miss. I mean, if CTE is soooo great and exact and perfect and wonderful and all, you shouldn't miss, right?)

Lou Figueroa
then I'd like to see them
shoot all the same shots
with position :-)
Click to expand...


You're not one of the guys I had in mind. If it helps to narrow it down: I do notice that Coco and Cookie are missing in action so far :-) Them guys are usually *all* over anything that vaguely smells of CTE, saying 0over and over and over how wundabar CTE is...

Lou Figueroa
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
Would love to watch Lou post a video of himself shooting colins shot test. Let's all sweat that some time since there have been scores of videos of CTE players posted in the past.

In FACT, the only people who ever post videos of anything are the CTE guys. It's guys like PJ, Lou, and the like who sit in the shadows and cluck about this and that.

Dave
...has never seen Lou post any videos ever, yet Lou's calling for videos of others.

Here ya go Lou:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8312487248327533414&hl=en#

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=122451
Let's see yours. I'm sure we won't.
Click to expand...


Good grief! Try and follow along: *I* am not the one making outlandish claims about CTE.

Lou Figueroa
I don't even claim
to have an aiming system
for goodness gracious sakes
 
JoeyA said:
Sure.................................. you do. Come out of the closet.
Click to expand...


Oh man, don't tell me you're stooping to the gay jokes too?!

Look, very simply I'm just saying that I see the shot and shoot it. Pretty much the PIITH thing described by others. Many players do the same. So saying everyone uses an aiming system is not accurate.

Lou Figueroa
kinda like CTE :-o
 
Spidey:
...the only people who ever post videos of anything are the CTE guys.
Click to expand...

The "CTE guys" are the ones who think your vanity videos mean something. What they mean is (1) you shoot OK, (2) you're an exhibitionist and (3) you don't have much of an idea how to critically analyze CTE.

None of that makes you a bad person, just fairly clueless about the topic you want us to believe you're an authority on. I'm sure I'll see how wrong I am when you produce your opus.

pj
chgo
 
Color me stupid...or simple....but I have been working on this for a while after reading about it here.

I have always been a "feel" player...and not a great one at that fwiw..though I have moments.

There is something here folks.

My understanding may be generic, but my belief is solid.

Do I shoot all shots with the method...hells no...do I shoot the "fn tough look" playable balls with it? Hells yes!

I very well maybe getting some parts wrong...but the little I get right shows amazing results.

Its not a stroke fixer.....not even close to a bad stroke equlizer..but its solid imo

Just sayin...pay attention...I have been.
 
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lfigueroa said:
Oh man, don't tell me you're stooping to the gay jokes too?!

Look, very simply I'm just saying that I see the shot and shoot it. Pretty much the PIITH thing described by others. Many players do the same. So saying everyone uses an aiming system is not accurate.

Lou Figueroa
kinda like CTE :-o
Click to expand...

Lou, don't be so paranoid about the "come out the closet" statement.

I only meant for you to take your aiming system out of the closet; it had nothing to do with your sexual orientation.

My bad, if you took offence. :o When chatting with you, I promise to refrain from using that statement in the future.

EVERYONE uses an aiming system even if you don't want to admit it. :wink:
 
JoeyA said:
Lou, don't be so paranoid about the "come out the closet" statement.

I only meant for you to take your aiming system out of the closet; it had nothing to do with your sexual orientation.

My bad, if you took offence. :o When chatting with you, I promise to refrain from using that statement in the future.

EVERYONE uses an aiming system even if you don't want to admit it. :wink:
Click to expand...


Why and how would you say something like this? I mean, you might as well say I use CTE and don't want to admit it.

As hard as it may be for you to believe, there are a lot of players that can just see the shots. Maybe you're not one of those and so you find it difficult, or apparently impossible, to believe that.

I remember doing round and round on this with Drivermaker, on RSB. He was just like you, insisting *I HAD TO BE USING AN AIMING SYSTEM.*

Sorry, it ain't so.

Lou Figueroa
also remembers back on RSB
when Joey was the homophob :-o
 
Drivermaker, thanks Lou, that was the guy that insisted I had to be using an aiming system. He never got it, like you some of us including me just see the shots. No contact points, no swivel your hips, no 80/30 20/10 or whatever -- just see the angle and Put it in the hole.

I never comment on these type of threads but just this once I got the urge. Thanks, I think :grin: for not real fond memories of a guy that insisted we used a system. Where is he now, who knows, he did get banned from here for being a bit one sided. It was a joke, a guy with a system with a high run of 56 balls. A guy that thought I was lying or most anyone who ran over 5 racks of 9 ball.

30 years ago I was a threat to run 5 racks and a run of 50 was a low number. Some people just don't get it. Aiming threads have a place, I think, but I'm not buying into them. I'm an older guy now, don't see as well, definitely do not play near enough and rarely practice. You get what you get, less time in equals poor results. No aiming system will cure that. Carry on, just my one reply to an aiming thread.

Rod
 
Terminology

lfigueroa said:
Why and how would you say something like this? I mean, you might as well say I use CTE and don't want to admit it.

As hard as it may be for you to believe, there are a lot of players that can just see the shots. Maybe you're not one of those and so you find it difficult, or apparently impossible, to believe that.

I remember doing round and round on this with Drivermaker, on RSB. He was just like you, insisting *I HAD TO BE USING AN AIMING SYSTEM.*

Sorry, it ain't so.

Lou Figueroa
also remembers back on RSB
when Joey was the homophob :-o
Click to expand...


Lou,

I think that terminology is where you are disagreeing now. Everybody uses an aiming system depending on how we define "aiming system". Simply getting down on a shot in alignment and seeing the shot is a "system" by the loosest definition. I can't define my system for shots either. I shoot so that the cue ball pushes the object ball into the hole. I have done this for so long I can't remember when I started and this is the way I see things.

Joey and I were working on one of the system things together and it became obvious that we genuinely see things differently. Not process what we see differently but genuinely see things differently on a much deeper level. I can imagine an instructor and a student both going nuts if they didn't realize that they genuinely both saw different things when they were down on a shot.

I can't use some of the common systems such as fractional systems. They simply don't work for me. My "system" is a simple one, hit the ball on the opposite side of where I want it to go. It is still technically a system, perhaps I should market my systems:

The ever popular ones that nobody has officially claimed for starters:

The first system we learn, P&H(Poke and Hope)
The first modification to P&H, P&P(Poke and Pray)
Then we have a method, S&H(Not the green stamps, Slam and Hope)

This is just for starters, I think I'll market my own DVD, a Dozen and One Time Tested Systems all on one DVD!!!

I still hope to find on an advanced system that actually works and will be interested in what Stan has to say on video. My earlier ventures into CTE working from forum info were very unconvincing. Sometimes it worked, sometimes I was so far off it was ridiculous. I'm open to a better system but so far I haven't found a better system for me than pushing the balls in the hole with the cue ball.

Hu
 
Rod said:
Drivermaker, thanks Lou, that was the guy that insisted I had to be using an aiming system. He never got it, like you some of us including me just see the shots. No contact points, no swivel your hips, no 80/30 20/10 or whatever -- just see the angle and Put it in the hole.

I never comment on these type of threads but just this once I got the urge. Thanks, I think :grin: for not real fond memories of a guy that insisted we used a system. Where is he now, who knows, he did get banned from here for being a bit one sided. It was a joke, a guy with a system with a high run of 56 balls. A guy that thought I was lying or most anyone who ran over 5 racks of 9 ball.

30 years ago I was a threat to run 5 racks and a run of 50 was a low number. Some people just don't get it. Aiming threads have a place, I think, but I'm not buying into them. I'm an older guy now, don't see as well, definitely do not play near enough and rarely practice. You get what you get, less time in equals poor results. No aiming system will cure that. Carry on, just my one reply to an aiming thread.

Rod
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, Billy (Drivermaker) was all et up about this -- just could not comprehend nor allow that some guys don't need/use an aiming system. Drove him nuts.

As to where he be nowadays... oh, I suspect he's around :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
ShootingArts said:
Lou,

I think that terminology is where you are disagreeing now. Everybody uses an aiming system depending on how we define "aiming system". Simply getting down on a shot in alignment and seeing the shot is a "system" by the loosest definition. I can't define my system for shots either. I shoot so that the cue ball pushes the object ball into the hole. I have done this for so long I can't remember when I started and this is the way I see things.

Joey and I were working on one of the system things together and it became obvious that we genuinely see things differently. Not process what we see differently but genuinely see things differently on a much deeper level. I can imagine an instructor and a student both going nuts if they didn't realize that they genuinely both saw different things when they were down on a shot.

I can't use some of the common systems such as fractional systems. They simply don't work for me. My "system" is a simple one, hit the ball on the opposite side of where I want it to go. It is still technically a system, perhaps I should market my systems:

The ever popular ones that nobody has officially claimed for starters:

The first system we learn, P&H(Poke and Hope)
The first modification to P&H, P&P(Poke and Pray)
Then we have a method, S&H(Not the green stamps, Slam and Hope)

This is just for starters, I think I'll market my own DVD, a Dozen and One Time Tested Systems all on one DVD!!!

I still hope to find on an advanced system that actually works and will be interested in what Stan has to say on video. My earlier ventures into CTE working from forum info were very unconvincing. Sometimes it worked, sometimes I was so far off it was ridiculous. I'm open to a better system but so far I haven't found a better system for me than pushing the balls in the hole with the cue ball.

Hu
Click to expand...


No, Hu, I'm not conceding this point.

Am I using an aiming system?: no.

Am I being so systematic in my approach to the table (PSR) that I set up in precisely the same way, each shot, so that I get predictable results?: yes.

I spent an hour with Geno yesterday afternoon and I was trying to explain this, in relation to his Perfect Aim system, and frankly, we found little common ground. But that's a topic for another day and another thread.

Lou Figueroa
now knows
he's very slightly
left eye dominant
 
didn't work for me either

lfigueroa said:
No, Hu, I'm not conceding this point.

Am I using an aiming system?: no.

Am I being so systematic in my approach to the table (PSR) that I set up in precisely the same way, each shot, so that I get predictable results?: yes.

I spent an hour with Geno yesterday afternoon and I was trying to explain this, in relation to his Perfect Aim system, and frankly, we found little common ground. But that's a topic for another day and another thread.

Lou Figueroa
now knows
he's very slightly
left eye dominant
Click to expand...

Perfect Aim doesn't work for me either. What we each saw playing with parts of that method is what had Joey and I scratching our heads.

No problem with me whether something is called a system or not, I haven't found anything that is called a system that works for me, well except the revolutionary new PIITH system that is sweeping the sport!

Hu
 
Johnnyt said:
Almost everyone I’ve seen on video demonstrating cte and other aiming systems are either pro players or good players that look (to me) that they are moving the tip of the cue at the last minute. I would like to see some of these systems shot with a robot shooting the same shot slow, medium, and hard on a slow, and fast table. Most of the shots I’ve seen are shots any good C player can make a high percentage of the time. Show me long cut shots…10 in a row unedited. Show me a well known weak C player LIVE after he/she gets a day or so of the aiming system training and then shoots like a “B” player.

Any of these aiming systems are just to give you a contact point to aim at. The problem with most is they can’t hit the contact point half the time. Even after hitting the contact point it’s still feel on the speed and spin (if any) and there is NO system for that, just like you can’t buy a stroke. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Everbody is looking for the magic bullet, that is going to make them play good right away.
 
ghostball said:
Everbody is looking for the magic bullet, that is going to make them play good right away.
Click to expand...

A world champion and Hall-of-Famer heard from in an aiming thread. I can't remember that happening before. For those who don't know, ghostball is Ray Martin.
 
There are no aiming systems. They are all visualization methods.

Aiming requires aligning what I call hard points. A example of a hard point is the bullseye on a target, that needs to be aligned with the front sight on the barrel that needs to be aligned with the rear sight. These are real world things you can see and touch.

There are no such things in making a ball. You have to visualize everything in your minds eye. There are no hard points on the table to show where you hand goes for a shot, nor hard points on the floor showing where your feet goes for a shot. There is no bulleyes on the object ball that shows the contact point.

I'e never seen a laser line on the table to help me align my cue with in order to make a shot.

So, to me there are no aiming systems, they are all visualization methods, even CTE and ghost ball. What visualization method you use doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how well you shoot.

Once again, there are no shortcuts. It's like the question "How do you get to Carnegie Hall." The answer being "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE."

Here's a thought, next time you go to make a shot, imagne that there is no object ball. This can be done using my ghost ball visualization method. Which I posted on here awhile ago.

FWIW
 
New ideas and concepts normally threaten the accepted way of looking at things. Like if instructors teach aiming systems, then all of a sudden someone says there are no such things. Challenges their belief system and the way they looks at things.

Such are my views and ideas on pool. I don't follow the herd like most I see on here.

New ideas come from those who look outside the box or ask if their is even a box.

I've never taken a lesson, never had any coaching and I'm glad I haven't. This has made me a stronger player. I've learned to rely on myself, trust myself and not look outside myself on the answer to my questions about pool. You have to get to the point you make whatever style of pool playing you use your own style and not try to reproduce the style of others.

I post my ideas in order to give those learning another option other than what is accepted as the normal way to do things as put forth by others.

There is no one right way or wrong way to make a ball. If the ball keeps going in and you keep raking'em, then the shooter is doing it the right way for them, no matter what got them to that point.


FWIW
 
JoeyA said:
EVERYONE uses an aiming system even if you don't want to admit it. :wink:
Click to expand...

That depends on what exactly you mean by "uses an aiming system." If it means that one has to decide an aiming point through some conscious thought process, then I disagree. Some aiming systems might speed up the start of learning, but in the end the only thing that the conscious mind has to be aware of is the goal he's trying to accomplish and the rest of the brain handles all the details. This process requires practice, of course, and better stroke fundamentals etc speeds it up, but it doesn't require conscious thought process of deciding an aiming point.
 
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