smallest a-joint?

M

mrinsatiable

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What would be considered too small of an A-joint?

Most A-joints I see are at least 1.00- 1.05 inches.

I am looking to modify the butt of a cue to have a slim butt cap of 1.20 inches.

I was told by many cuemakers that a straight taper cannot support this type of butt cap measurement as the A-joint would be too skinny (.995 inch).

My other option is to change the butt taper from straight taper to compound taper. The cue maker of the original cue says he can still maintain the straight taper and also give me a slim butt of 1.20"



Butt measurements:
.850 joint and 1.250 butt *Straight taper*

Desired Butt measurements:
.850 joint and 1.200 butt

The question remains...how small is too small for an A-Joint?
 
mrinsatiable said:
What would be considered too small of an A-joint?

Most A-joints I see are at least 1.00- 1.05 inches.

I am looking to modify the butt of a cue to have a slim butt cap of 1.20 inches.

I was told by many cuemakers that a straight taper cannot support this type of butt cap measurement as the A-joint would be too skinny (.995 inch).

My other option is to change the butt taper from straight taper to compound taper. The cue maker of the original cue says he can still maintain the straight taper and also give me a slim butt of 1.20"



Butt measurements:
.850 joint and 1.250 butt *Straight taper*

Desired Butt measurements:
.850 joint and 1.200 butt

The question remains...how small is too small for an A-Joint?
Click to expand...

I believe it depends on how the A was constructed:confused: If you have that info you can make a determination from there. If you don't know, a compound taper would be the safest bet.
 
mrinsatiable said:
What would be considered too small of an A-joint?

Most A-joints I see are at least 1.00- 1.05 inches.

I am looking to modify the butt of a cue to have a slim butt cap of 1.20 inches.

I was told by many cuemakers that a straight taper cannot support this type of butt cap measurement as the A-joint would be too skinny (.995 inch).

My other option is to change the butt taper from straight taper to compound taper. The cue maker of the original cue says he can still maintain the straight taper and also give me a slim butt of 1.20"



Butt measurements:
.850 joint and 1.250 butt *Straight taper*

Desired Butt measurements:
.850 joint and 1.200 butt

The question remains...how small is too small for an A-Joint?
Click to expand...

there are no set rules.you can do anything you want.it is your build.you can make the A the same as the shaft.

bill
 
I wouldn't hesitate a heartbeat to build the cue at your measurements; straight taper and all.
This is certainly not impossible. Keep the A jnt concentric and you shouldn't have any problems.
 
I don't see a problem unless you have a stitch ring . If it's just a solid ring , go for it . Set up your taper bar and make some saw dust ...:cool:
 
The only issue I could for see would be the "A" joint structure, as mentioned. If you have a 3/4" tenon or larger extruding from the handle into the forearm, then your sidewalls are going to be VERY thin. You might consider using a 5/8" tenon in that scenario.
 
qbilder said:
The only issue I could for see would be the "A" joint structure, as mentioned. If you have a 3/4" tenon or larger extruding from the handle into the forearm, then your sidewalls are going to be VERY thin. You might consider using a 5/8" tenon in that scenario.
Click to expand...

Thank you.... I don't see it as the only issue, but that's a pretty major one! I think some people missed what was said in the OP. He mentioned he was modifying "a" cue. He didn't say he built it. Maybe he did build it but you still have to take in the considerations of HOW the A was put together.
Is it a flat faced with only a chunk of metal holding it together or is it a tenon going into the handle?
What size is the tenon off the fore? Is it a tenon going into the fore? What size is the tenon going into the fore? Does it have rings at the A?
I've seen cues with tenons from .625 to .800 at the A joint. Just because .750 is the so called standard doesn't necessarily mean that's what's there. There are a lot of variables involved in making the decision asked and some of you just say GO for it?

The cue maker of the original cue says he can still maintain the straight taper and also give me a slim butt of 1.20"
Click to expand...

After reading the OP again myself, I believe the poster is not even doing the work on the cue himself. It's just his cue.
At least that's the way I'm reading it. If this is the case, let the original cuemaker do the work you are asking for as long as he'll stand behind the work. If he says it'll hold...trust him and let him do it. If it breaks and he won't repair or replace it, you can always start a thread bashing him about what a rotten cuemaker he is.
 
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Your only reducing the A joint about .020 if the cue has a straight taper now. I agree that stitch rings could be a problem, but .020 isn't much. Still, if the original cuemaker will take the job, that's who'd I'd see to do it.

Alan
 
Dave you're correct.

I am not a cuemaker or cuebuilder. Simply a player who is understands the basic specs of cues.

All the work will be done by the cuemaker of the cue. His standard is straight tapers. Hi normal A[Joints are completed at: 1.015

I'd love to experiment with the design but the cue in mind is valued at $1800

I've played with both cues that are compound and straight. Honestly I don't have a preference in building styles. I only know what feels good in my hands for balance and thickness. At the moment I'm simply trying to get a better understanding of what should work and what doesn't work according to physics.

Long time ago I attempted to get a straight taper cue built by Joe Gold in a slim butt design and he refused it saying his style would not support the requirements I wanted. His suggestion was to find a builder that produces a compound taper i.e. SW or kersenbrock style. as the hit would be affected by restrictions of tapers.
 
I'm simply trying to get a better understanding of what should work and what doesn't work
Click to expand...

I understand..........The decision needs to be based on what diameters are on the inside as well as the OD. Myself....if it were one of my cues and you were asking me to do the work, I would push you more toward doing a compound for what you are trying to achieve even though my standard taper is a conical taper. You may have to add a little weight in the rear to bump it back up to where it is now but the grip area would be more to your liking and the A joint construction would not be as compromised.

jmho.................
 
A straight taper .850 at the joint to 1.2 at 29 inches would result in an A-Joint measurement of 1.0069 (13 inches from joint).
Assuming the cue has a straight taper originally, and was at 1.25, the A-Joint would have been 1.0293.
So we're talking about a cut of 0.0112 at the A-Joint....
 
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I understand........but the cue owner already mentioned that it didn't matter to him if it had a straight or compound taper. He just wants the grip area smaller in diameter. So if that can be achieved without changing the already existing A joint diameter why would you want to do that?
 
Sheldon said:
A straight taper .850 at the joint to 1.2 at 29 inches would result in an A-Joint measurement of 1.0069 (13 inches from joint).
Assuming the cue has a straight taper originally, and was at 1.25, the A-Joint would have been 1.0293.
So we're talking about a cut of 0.0112 at the A-Joint....
Click to expand...

Sheldon -- post #1 mentions a .995 diameter at the A-joint with a straight taper from .850" to 1.200". That would mean the A-joint is at 12 inches rather than 13, assuming a 29" total length. That would affect your "cut" number, but only slightly (less than a thousandth).

mrinsatiable -- presumably you like the way the cue plays now but just want a thinner gripping area. I've been in your boat more than once. I think you have a better chance of retaining the current feel and playability of the cue if you leave it alone up to the A-joint and just retaper it from that point to the bottom.
 
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AtLarge said:
Sheldon -- post #1 mentions a .995 diameter at the A-joint with a straight taper from .850" to 1.200". That would mean the A-joint is at 12 inches rather than 13, assuming a 29" total length. That would affect your "cut" number, but only slightly (less than a thousandth).

mrinsatiable -- presumably you like the way the cue plays now but just want a thinner gripping area. I've been in your boat more than once. I think you have a better chance of retaining the current feel and playability of the cue if you leave it alone up to the A-joint and just retaper it from that point to the bottom.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the cut would be even less an inch further up!
Retaper from A to buttcap is what I recommend as well... good advice.
 
thanks for the great advice everyone. Really appreciate people with the expertise and the generousity to share it.

It helps players like me determine the best course of action for something that they're not familiar with.
 
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