One pocket ruling

JStarkweather

JStarkweather

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe I should post this on the one pocket forum, but I'm not a member. I'm sure someone on here can answer this.

Say you have ball in hand early in the game & there is a ball or two in the kitchen. If I took the cueball and dilberately shot a ball in the kitchen at a cluster towards my pocket & locked him up on another ball seems pretty devestating. I showed some players this & they didn't have an answer for me except agreeing that it was a crusing shot.

Now taking a deliberate foul but getting a lot of balls close to my pocket would be pretty good, but I don't know what the ruling is on that. I don't want to be gambling & someone busting my head open for playng a dirty shot or something. Anybody know how this is played?
 
JStarkweather said:
Maybe I should post this on the one pocket forum, but I'm not a member. I'm sure someone on here can answer this.

Say you have ball in hand early in the game & there is a ball or two in the kitchen. If I took the cueball and dilberately shot a ball in the kitchen at a cluster towards my pocket & locked him up on another ball seems pretty devestating. I showed some players this & they didn't have an answer for me except agreeing that it was a crusing shot.

Now taking a deliberate foul but getting a lot of balls close to my pocket would be pretty good, but I don't know what the ruling is on that. I don't want to be gambling & someone busting my head open for playng a dirty shot or something. Anybody know how this is played?
Click to expand...

when youmove more than 3 balls its a loss of game.
 
JStarkweather said:
Maybe I should post this on the one pocket forum, but I'm not a member. I'm sure someone on here can answer this.

Say you have ball in hand early in the game & there is a ball or two in the kitchen. If I took the cueball and dilberately shot a ball in the kitchen at a cluster towards my pocket & locked him up on another ball seems pretty devestating. I showed some players this & they didn't have an answer for me except agreeing that it was a crusing shot.

Now taking a deliberate foul but getting a lot of balls close to my pocket would be pretty good, but I don't know what the ruling is on that. I don't want to be gambling & someone busting my head open for playng a dirty shot or something. Anybody know how this is played?
Click to expand...



Let me get this straight: you're shooting at a ball *in* the kitchen with BIH?

Well hell. If you're going to do that why not just pick up a couple of balls with your hand and put them in front of your hole? Or use your cue and rake everything to your side? Really, I think a basic paradigm of any game is that there are certain basic rules that everyone is going to adhere to or why bother. In any case, the CB has to leave the kitchen for it to be a legal shot with BIH. I suppose someone could also call you on the unsportsmanlike rule. But frankly, I think most guys, if you tried something like that, would just unscrew.

Lou Figueroa
 
Thanks Chris & ...um...thanks Lou. I was just opening my creativity to some strategies. Just wanted a ruling, not any "unscrewing".
 
JStarkweather said:
Thanks Chris & ...um...thanks Lou. I was just opening my creativity to some strategies. Just wanted a ruling, not any "unscrewing".
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It's not a strategy, Jean -- it's trying to cheat. Well, maybe that's too harsh. But it's basically the same reason you can't take the CB with BIH and wedge it to the inside of a corner pocket in the kitchen, touch it with your cue tip and say, "Your shot." There are a bunch of these types of "creative" things out there. After a few years, you get quite an education on the 1pocket table :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Let me get this straight: you're shooting at a ball *in* the kitchen with BIH?

Well hell. If you're going to do that why not just pick up a couple of balls with your hand and put them in front of your hole? Or use your cue and rake everything to your side? Really, I think a basic paradigm of any game is that there are certain basic rules that everyone is going to adhere to or why bother. In any case, the CB has to leave the kitchen for it to be a legal shot with BIH. I suppose someone could also call you on the unsportsmanlike rule. But frankly, I think most guys, if you tried something like that, would just unscrew.

Lou Figueroa
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Well said Lou!! I would unscrew also and add one more name to my "never play with" list. It is definitely unsportsmanlike conduct in my book.

If you did that in a serious gambling game, the result might be more violent.
 
It is not trying to cheat. Jean here is obviously looking outside the box to find intense shots. I guarantee playing someone like you Lou who is so quick to just say its cheating will be showed up on the table by jean here. actually playing last night i to an intentional foul. cue ball laid on the spot guy was hooked when i spotted object ball. this is not considered unsportsmanlike. and im sure it was people like jean here who found these shots out. anyone actually have the ruling to this answer? cause im not sure but i dont think three balls moving=automatic loss would apply here. this would be no different than the cue ball scratching hitting three balls, right?
 
Wouldn't this just be an intentional foul? You now owe a ball and the cueball stays where it is.

Honestly, this doesn't sound like cheating at all. Its no different than pocketing a ball in your opponents hole and following the cueball in. Or purposely not driving a ball to the rail to lock your player up.
 
JStarkweather said:
Maybe I should post this on the one pocket forum, but I'm not a member. I'm sure someone on here can answer this.

Say you have ball in hand early in the game & there is a ball or two in the kitchen. If I took the cueball and dilberately shot a ball in the kitchen at a cluster towards my pocket & locked him up on another ball seems pretty devestating. I showed some players this & they didn't have an answer for me except agreeing that it was a crusing shot.

Now taking a deliberate foul but getting a lot of balls close to my pocket would be pretty good, but I don't know what the ruling is on that. I don't want to be gambling & someone busting my head open for playng a dirty shot or something. Anybody know how this is played?
Click to expand...

According to the World Standardized General Rules this is unsportsmanlike conduct.

WPA General Rules (Fouls):

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
Click to expand...

In an officiated match you'd lose the game or the match for doing this. Against Lou you might just get unscrewed (maybe without the "un").

For 1 pocket, where the CB is played in place (not in hand) for fouls where no ball leaves the table, I think another rule might be needed to avoid unintentional bad hits of this kind - maybe just making it the same as a "ball off the table" foul, giving ball in hand (in the kitchen) to the opponent?

pj
chgo
 
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JStarkweather said:
Maybe I should post this on the one pocket forum, but I'm not a member. I'm sure someone on here can answer this.

Say you have ball in hand early in the game & there is a ball or two in the kitchen. If I took the cueball and dilberately shot a ball in the kitchen at a cluster towards my pocket & locked him up on another ball seems pretty devestating. I showed some players this & they didn't have an answer for me except agreeing that it was a crusing shot.

Now taking a deliberate foul but getting a lot of balls close to my pocket would be pretty good, but I don't know what the ruling is on that. I don't want to be gambling & someone busting my head open for playng a dirty shot or something. Anybody know how this is played?
Click to expand...
Hi JStarkweather-- "Membership" is not required on onepocket.org. You simply have to register a name and password.

I think I see what is the intent of you question. You're just trying to illustrate a loop-hole in the rules that could be used to a player's advantage.

The scenario you used would be so foreign to a one-pocket player that it would never come up. However, in tournament play that action would likely result in loss of game. In a private match, who knows what would result? It's a blatant intentional foul, so most likely the opponent would either not pay, quit, or worse.

In one-pocket when a player with CB in hand in the kitchen attempts to shoot at a ball near to the kitchen line, there is almost always a discussion. It's important for the players to know and agree what constitutes an object ball in play; whether it's "face" of the ball, or "base" of the ball in relation to the head string.

As far as the other post stating that if more than 3 balls are moved it's loss of game, there is no such standard rule. Object balls unintentionally moved are to be replaced as close as possible to their original positions, subject to the agreement of the players.

Doc
 
At the very least, you would be on 1 (first foul) then restore balls to the original position. You spot 1 ball for the foul.

In tournament play, you would get thrown out of the joint. :grin:

Gambling, at the very least you would lose your opponent. That is unless he or the boys decided to beat the crap out of you!

Any more creative ideas?

Rod
 
gulfportdoc said:
Hi JStarkweather-- "Membership" is not required on onepocket.org. You simply have to register a name and password.

I think I see what is the intent of you question. You're just trying to illustrate a loop-hole in the rules that could be used to a player's advantage.

The scenario you used would be so foreign to a one-pocket player that it would never come up. However, in tournament play that action would likely result in loss of game. In a private match, who knows what would result? It's a blatant intentional foul, so most likely the opponent would either not pay, quit, or worse.

In one-pocket when a player with CB in hand in the kitchen attempts to shoot at a ball near to the kitchen line, there is almost always a discussion. It's important for the players to know and agree what constitutes an object ball in play; whether it's "face" of the ball, or "base" of the ball in relation to the head string.

As far as the other post stating that if more than 3 balls are moved it's loss of game, there is no such standard rule. Object balls unintentionally moved are to be replaced as close as possible to their original positions, subject to the agreement of the players.

Doc
Click to expand...

As Patrick pointed out, this intentional illegal shot is covered by the WPA rules, which the WWW.ONEPOCKET.ORG refers to as General Rules. The onepocket.org website also refers to the BCA General Rules but has the wrong link. The correct link for the Billiard Congress of America "General Rules" is currently http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/GeneralRules_January2008.pdf

I'm sure that as websites are modified the links are changed. Maybe you can suggest the updated link to the onepocket.org webmaster. (who I don't know).

My question for you since you have been a tournament director for one pocket tournaments is:
If a rule is not covered by the official rules of one pocket, then the General Rules covered by the WPA and BCA are adhered to, correct?
 
Thanks to all for clarifying. I was just curious about how they ruled that situation. It wasn't meant to be unsportsmanlike. Anyone who knows me or played with me should understand that. I agree with Stephen, I was just thinking of new theories to gain small advantages. I didn't realize that intentional scratch & INTENTIONAL SCRATCH were such an alpha & omega. I'll just continue making legal hits. :wink:
 
JoeyA said:
As Patrick pointed out, this intentional illegal shot is covered by the WPA rules, which the WWW.ONEPOCKET.ORG refers to as General Rules. The onepocket.org website also refers to the BCA General Rules but has the wrong link. The correct link for the Billiard Congress of America "General Rules" is currently http://home.bca-pool.com/associations/7744/files/GeneralRules_January2008.pdf

I'm sure that as websites are modified the links are changed. Maybe you can suggest the updated link to the onepocket.org webmaster. (who I don't know).

My question for you since you have been a tournament director for one pocket tournaments is:
If a rule is not covered by the official rules of one pocket, then the General Rules covered by the WPA and BCA are adhered to, correct?
Click to expand...
That's correct, Joey. If a situation comes up which is not covered in the onepocket.org published rules, then the answer is sought from the WPA or BCA.

Doc
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Never heard of this... Can you point to a rule?

pj
chgo
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The closest written rule I know of is this from the Derby City rules about "cue ball fouls only:"

Accidentally touching or disturbing 2 or more object balls is a foul, and there is no restoration option for the disturbed balls. ​

I think I have heard the multiple-ball-movement rule before, but hearing is different from reading.
 
the reference to the BCA should be deleted. The BCA adopted the WPA rules in 1998. The BCA has been out of the rules decision making for 12+ years. The BCA only sells the book of its history and the WPA rules.


BTW. the rules for ONE Pocket are not in either the WPA or BCA rule sets.

gulfportdoc said:
That's correct, Joey. If a situation comes up which is not covered in the onepocket.org published rules, then the answer is sought from the WPA or BCA.

Doc
Click to expand...
 
cleary said:
Wouldn't this just be an intentional foul? You now owe a ball and the cueball stays where it is.

Honestly, this doesn't sound like cheating at all. Its no different than pocketing a ball in your opponents hole and following the cueball in. Or purposely not driving a ball to the rail to lock your player up.
Click to expand...

You must be one of those funsy players. In what pool game could this ever be allowed when you shoot behind the line? Why not 8ball and straight pool too? It is very different than following your opponent's ball in and scratching behind it. That is a move. Im sure for fun you could do this all day long.
 
I think this would fall under the same rule as if you are corner hooked and you slam the cue ball into the facing with no english and force the cue ball to stay corner hooked. you are really hitting the cue ball more than once and pinning it in the same place. This results in a loss of game. I would think that what the OP is asking would have the same consequence.
 
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