Pattern Racking

Well..

none of the pro tours that I've played or know of require a random rack... I'm not sure if this rule is rooted in league formats or not...

The no requirement for a ball would probably end some arguing... But you hve to consider alot of ppl who've put in alot of work to improve their break may take objection to the change... Who knows

Big Perm said:
Ray, thanks for the tip on Joe Tucker, I've been meaning to get his stuff for quite some time....

As you make your point above, whether it only offers a slight edge, or whether it's confidence, or maybe it's just getting a runout you are used to.....if you are playing by rules that require a random rack, then it's cheating.....

I just find it hypocritical that people who claim to play by the rules and have a sense of honor seem to turn a blind eye to themselves when they deliberately plan a rack.....it's funny and kind of sad.....and no, this doesn't apply to those who specifically gamble that way - if everybody is playing by the same game and rules, then do whatever you want, I don't care :D

Also, I don't agree with taking away a ball on the break.....part of pool, or any game/sport for that matter, is luck.....and a good, solid, powerful break where a certain player can make a ball a higher percentage of time than another player is more skill than luck.....besides, you can never take all the luck out of the game, even with 100 rule changes.....a ball can always roll off, either toward or away from a pocket.....you can hit a perfect shot, but at contact you get a nice skid and miss the pocket by an inch.....no amount of rules is going to remove luck....

I simply can't agree with changing a rule because so many people don't abide by it.....enforce the rule, penalize those not playing by the rules, and they will either get in line or go play poker :grin:
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rayshooter22 said:
none of the pro tours that I've played or know of require a random rack... I'm not sure if this rule is rooted in league formats or not...

The no requirement for a ball would probably end some arguing... But you hve to consider alot of ppl who've put in alot of work to improve their break may take objection to the change... Who knows
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While I agree that a lot of pros pattern rack in professional tournaments it seems that it is just something they allow each other even though most of these events are played by WPA rules which forbid the practice. And if neither player protests then obviously no ruling will be made. I suppose that at the professional level an argument could be made that pattern racking, if done by BOTH players, eliminates some of the luck factor that pros seem to so dislike.

As far as leagues go, the BCAPL does not allow it. But (and I think this may be part of the problem in general) the way I read the rules the APA does allow pattern racking. I don't know the rationale for the rule but I would guess it has more to do with it simply being their solution to eliminating arguments than because it is a legitimate "skill" to use.
 
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Paul Schofield said:
I wonder if the USGA would allow two golfers in agreement to skirt the rules during match-play .
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The answer to that is - it wouldn't even come to that. The players themselves would almost certainly self-govern and play within the rules without the need to even keep an eye on each other.
 
Basicly the break has turned into a trick shot. Get the balls where you want them ,hit them here and its dead.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
While I agree that a lot of pros pattern rack in professional tournaments it seems that it is just something they allow each other even though most of these events are played by WPA rules which forbid the practice. And if neither player protests then obviously no ruling will be made. I suppose that at the professional level an argument could be made that pattern racking, if done by BOTH players, eliminates some of the luck factor that pros seem to so dislike.

As far as leagues go, the BCAPL does not allow it. But (and I think this may be part of the problem in general) the way I read the rules the APA does allow pattern racking. I don't know the rationale for the rule but I would guess it has more to do with it simply being their solution to eliminating arguments than because it is a legitimate "skill" to use.
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In these tournaments I think the players do self govern. And once again I think the crux of the argument comes down to not the pattern of the balls, but the touching and the massaging of the balls in order to get a perfect rack. They all set an order, it's just whether or not they're satisfied with how the balls are touching. For the most part it doesn't really happen at the beginning of the tournament because the conditions are pretty pristine. I'd assume though that as the event progresses small divots form from all the breaking. Thus forcing the rackers to adjust the rack position or touch the balls more to achieve the same rack.
 
So if the game has been reduced to little more than just the pattern of the rack , what is 'thee' pattern everyone should know?
 
RRfireblade said:
So if the game has been reduced to little more than just the pattern of the rack , what is 'thee' pattern everyone should know?
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Do a search, there are tons of threads on just this thing.

rayshooter22 said:
In these tournaments I think the players do self govern. And once again I think the crux of the argument comes down to not the pattern of the balls, but the touching and the massaging of the balls in order to get a perfect rack. They all set an order, it's just whether or not they're satisfied with how the balls are touching. For the most part it doesn't really happen at the beginning of the tournament because the conditions are pretty pristine. I'd assume though that as the event progresses small divots form from all the breaking. Thus forcing the rackers to adjust the rack position or touch the balls more to achieve the same rack.
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When I said self-govern, I was referring to the players being honorable enough to play within the rules without an official, not self-govern in the context of setting your own rules. In the context of your post self-govern seems to mean exactly what Paul was talking about - two players agreeing to break the rules or replace one with their own. Unless specifically altered by a tournament rule (and I've never heard of this), racking in a set order (which is exactly what you said they all do) is against the rules.

Once again, we are not talking about having to switch a ball's location with another ball because they aren't racking tight. The issue is racking the balls in such a way as to increase your out percentages or decrease that of your opponent.
 
quick question. If I am spotting a player a money ball. Is it ethical to put that ball on a safe spot in the rack? If it comes up randomly as the wing ball and he makes it five times in a row, can I move it?
 
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mikeiniowa said:
quick question. If I am spotting a player a money ball. Is it ethical to put that ball on a safe spot in the rack? If it comes up randomly as the wing ball and he makes it five times in a row, can I move it?
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In 9-ball it is common to place spotted balls in the second row behind the one. Once you have agreed to a spot, you should also agree to the placement of the spotted balls so the "random" question doesn't even apply.
 
JDB said:
In 9-ball it is common to place spotted balls in the second row behind the one. Once you have agreed to a spot, you should also agree to the placement of the spotted balls so the "random" question doesn't even apply.
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Agreed. Particularly if it is rack your own you had better discuss it with your opponent before hand.

Hey, two guys matching up can agree to play any way they want. If the situation is in some kind of handicapped 9 Ball tournament then perhaps the TD should have the placement of the handicapped balls figured out ahead of time.
 
assumptions

You're assumption is only correct if the tournament rules expressly indicate that it is illegal to rack the balls in any order that isn't random. My point was from the position that none of the tournaments I've played have outlined rules which make such practices illegal. Thus the argument you presented is flawed. Of course if this was in a rule set i.e. a league or other ruleset that states racking the balls in such a fashion, then your perception of self governing is valid.

DogsPlayingPool said:
Do a search, there are tons of threads on just this thing.



When I said self-govern, I was referring to the players being honorable enough to play within the rules without an official, not self-govern in the context of setting your own rules. In the context of your post self-govern seems to mean exactly what Paul was talking about - two players agreeing to break the rules or replace one with their own. Unless specifically altered by a tournament rule (and I've never heard of this), racking in a set order (which is exactly what you said they all do) is against the rules.

Once again, we are not talking about having to switch a ball's location with another ball because they aren't racking tight. The issue is racking the balls in such a way as to increase your out percentages or decrease that of your opponent.
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it's subjective

RRfireblade said:
Isn't there just one best rack ? :)
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alot of the times it depends on how you break. Alot of the players who "have the nuts" in rack your own, is because they've practiced and have a distinct muscle memory for their break. In studying their break they can estimate within a certain degree of accuracy, where the balls will travel after the break. Of course any one can look at where the balls travel just by studying their break.

In any case they'll rack the balls and break hoping that the standard traveling paths of the object balls will hold true. Of course this can become a matter of luck also when you incorporate kisses and kicks into the object balls or cueball.

Rack your own can be strongest on a set of conditions where a soft break is effective. I like to rack my own, but mostly to ensure the balls are all touching. Because when i break i break HARD!... or at least as hard as i can with control.

If you watch the Donny and Shane Match, you'll notice shane breaking hard and using this pattern...
1
2 4
8 9 3
5 7
6

Maybe something to play around with. Have fun.
 
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