CTE works for straight in shots.

GetMeThere said:
Obviously, you haven't understood the tabular data I provided. That is one important source of your inability to discuss these issues in a meaningful and illuminating manner.
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I admit that I haven't fully digested it yet. I did see one part about the offset needed being x-amount and then your comment about the width of a human hair for comparison to show that the thickness of a human hair is larger than the allowable margin of error when shooting. Feel free to correct me with relevant quotes and I will retract whatever I said about your comments on your data set that was in error.

I find it meaningful that CTE works for straight in shots. If people try it based on that information alone then I predict that some of them will become illuminated as to how to implement CTE aiming.

My purpose is not to convince you or Pat or Mike or anyone who is openly scornful. I will meet with Pat this coming Sunday and show him what I know and he and I will discuss it. After we get through that I hoep we have time to play some just for fun without bickering about aiming systems. He will do what he does to aim and I will do the same and whoever makes more money balls will win.
 
JB Cases said:
I admit that I haven't fully digested it yet. I did see one part about the offset needed being x-amount and then your comment about the width of a human hair for comparison to show that the thickness of a human hair is larger than the allowable margin of error when shooting. Feel free to correct me with relevant quotes and I will retract whatever I said about your comments on your data set that was in error.
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Of the error ranges I listed, the tightest was for an 80 degree cut shot in which the OB needed to travel 8 feet to get to the pocket. In that case, a visual 2-dimension representational slice of the OB roughly the thickness of TWO human hairs needs to be reliably hit.

For a straight in shot requiring the OB to travel 8 feet, it's necessary to hit an area roughly the width of TEN human hairs--1/25th of an inch. A straight-in shot where the ball travels only 2 feet requires a hit within a 3/16" area--and 1 feet requires a hit within a 3/8" area.
 
Thank you for the clarification. Now my quick experiments this morning revealed that with a relatively shallow angle just a few millmeters too much of offset using Ghost Ball is enough to miss the shot.

I grant everyone that I am doing these experiments with no control and no help and totally subject to my own bias, predjudice, and ability or lack therof.

However I good enough to shoot dead stop balls all day so with that in mind I feel I have enough ability to reasonably know where I am shooting to, especially with the visual Ghost Ball aid I created on the laser.

So based on my quick testing using the GB template I found that I could not use the dead center pocket line ghost ball position to make the ball. No surprise to anyone moderately advanced. However here is what is surprising to me.

It is difficult to guess the proper offset using Ghost Ball to make the object ball travel down the center line each time. It's relatively easy to make the ball at close and medium distances using GB with an offset but fairly difficult (for me) to hit center pocket each time.

But using CTE to line up the object ball did travel down the center pocket line just about every time.

Again, this is anecdotal personal experience tainted by my own predjudice. I don't have a lot of time to play with this, none actually but I can't help it.

I can't provide the math, the calculus, trig or geometry to explain HOW CTE works. I am like the guys who do Russian Swing tricks in the circus. They don't know the math or physics behind what they do but they know from practical experience what the optimal way to build a swing and what the best technique is to get the maximum height out of using it.

I will leave it to future scholars to figure all that out. It's clear to me that I may be trying to describe a set of actions and reactions without the proper knowledge and foundation to do so. Unlike a belief in God or other mystical deitiies the PROOF is on the table for anyone willing to try it.

Also the ability to disprove it is there for anyone willing to do it. Just once I'd like see any skeptic get on video and prove that they understand CTE and then to go on to debunk it.

This whole debate settles on two camps. Those that use it and swear by it and those who don't care to try to learn it and seek to disprove it without going to the table.

Galileo Galilei could not "prove" that the Earth was not the center of the universe. However he was certain that he was right through his observations. It took many hundreds of years for science to develop the tools to be able to prove his assertions.

Gailileo is considered the father of modern science. He undertook to conduct experiments to prove or disprove any contention.

Were he alive he would certainly take CTE to the table and figure it out rather than wasting so much time writing trying to disprove it intellectually. He would show us on his YouTube channel WHY it doesn't work IF it doesn't or why it does work and how perception plays into it if it does.

Why do I feel more secure in my alignment when I use CTE for a straight in shot than when I try to use the centers of the balls? Why do I make more shots this way?

I don't know. I just do. Someone else figure it out.
 
JB Cases said:
Where is the center of the object ball? Or the center of the cueball?

.
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The center of both cb and ob is the point where the ball is touching the table. And if someone can't visualize that straight line, how are they going to be able to visualize the straight line from the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball?

Just sayin'

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
The center of both cb and ob is the point where the ball is touching the table. And if someone can't visualize that straight line, how are they going to be able to visualize the straight line from the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball?

Just sayin'

Steve
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So you can see through the ball to where it touches the table? This is a good reference but still not as clear as using the edge of the ball imo.

The point I am making is that while you can use other methods to line up straight in shots you can ALSO use CTE which you can ALSO use for all your other shots.

The point is that by using CTE for straight in shots you will gain a very quick understanding of how to use it for cut shots.

I don't really care about all the other ways there are to aim a straight in shot. I aim using CTE and then extend the cue stick line to the rail or pocket for a straight in shot and that method serves me well.

For anyone interested in CTE they can start with a straight in shot and use it. Because once they figure it out FOR a straight in shot then the rest is easy.
 
What I do not understand between John Barton's, and SpiderWebComm information they they have posted, if someone wanted to learn CTE, the information is there. Hell if I can grasp it, anyone should be able to get it.:)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
JB Cases said:
Ghost Ball does not work. If you set up a Ghost Ball aim trainer on the perfect Ghost Ball position and direct someone to shoot EXACTLY over the ghost ball then most of the time the object ball will be thrown off course.
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Oy vey.

The ghost ball method doesn't dictate that you align the ghost ball and the object ball to the center of the pocket. You can align them to whatever cut angle you think the object ball should have, adjusted for throw or not.

Sorry to use you as an example, John, but I think misunderstanding this most simple thing about the most simple aiming method is probably typical of the visualization and logic difficulties that CTE users have in general.
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Exactly! Here's a quote from my ghost-ball (GB) resource page:
In the "beginner's version" of ghost-ball (GB) aiming, throw is not considered. In more advanced GB aiming, the GB position is the exact position the CB must be at contact with the OB (adjusted for cut- or spin-induced throw) that will send the OB into the heart of the desired pocket.​

FYI, lot's of info, illustrations, and demonstrations for how to adjust for cut- and spin-induced throw can be found here:

These topics are also covered in detail on VEPS-IV.

Regards,
Dave
 
John:
...by using CTE for straight in shots you will gain a very quick understanding of how to use it for cut shots.
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So instead of lining up centerball-to-centerball, you line up centerball-to-edgeofball, then "shift-pivot to the crop-circle" (or something) to get back to centerball-to-centerball.

You're right - that explains pretty clearly what CTE adds to the aiming process.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
So instead of lining up centerball-to-centerball, you line up centerball-to-edgeofball, then "shift-pivot to the crop-circle" (or something) to get back to centerball-to-centerball.

You're right - that explains pretty clearly what CTE adds to the aiming process.
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You just reminded me of a great video that mocks how people sometimes like to use complicated language to make something sound more impressive or useful. Check it out:

Enjoy,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
You just reminded me of a great video that mocks how people sometimes like to use complicated language to make something sound more impressive or useful. Check it out:

Enjoy,
Dave
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Wow! That one almost broke my muffler bearing!

You're aware, I'm sure, of the number of phony "journal articles" written by scamsters that have been elected for publication--mostly in...oh crap, I forget the terminology...."deconstructionist" type academic publications, usually in English literature or sociology?

Here's a link about it, that mentions the "SCIgen" software that can be used to generate phony papers in computer science.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
So instead of lining up centerball-to-centerball, you line up centerball-to-edgeofball, then "shift-pivot to the crop-circle" (or something) to get back to centerball-to-centerball.

You're right - that explains pretty clearly what CTE adds to the aiming process.

pj
chgo
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That one sounds simpler. :grin:
 
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