Does Event Streaming Keep People From Supporting the Billiard Rooms ?

[Majic]

Does Local/Regional Event Streaming Keep People From Supporting the Billiard Rooms ?

There seems to be a 2-way argument for event streaming.

Argument 1. It is good for pool.
Maybe because it gets some additional sponsors involved and people far away from the event in question can watch the event and see the players.
Also it is seen as good for the players as it gives them and there sponsors more visibility.

Argument 2. It is NOT good for pool.
Possibly because it keeps people at home and they are not supporting the event by being there and eating, drinking, playing pool and supporting the venue in a whole. (note: I have seen for an absolute fact that some local/regional players do not come back to events on the final day and/or local players friends and family to not come to the venues because they can simply watch at home instead of being at and supporting the venue.)
Also, fans of the sport are sitting at home watching far away events instead of supporting a local event or pool room right in there own back yard.


I have tried to see both sides of the argument. I have spectated at events, I have also watched streamed events. I have also participated in the streaming of events and I have also chosen to not participate in the streaming of events. After trying out all sides of this argument I subscribe to the side that believes that streaming of local/ regional events is NOT good for pool but streaming of larger international events is good for pool. That is just my personal opinion, what's yours ?

I should also note that I also believe that streaming of local/regional events takes away possible sponsorship opportunities from the Payers, Promoters and Venues alike. But again, there are 2 sides to this argument to.

Ask the viewers when you stream next.......see if any are actually locals or if they are just pool junkies

 

[bwcaq]

Does Local/Regional Event Streaming Keep People From Supporting the Billiard Rooms ?

No more than porn keeps people from supporting sex.

One is for when you can't do the other, and the presence of a goat in either one isn't right.

 

[cuesmith]

I really think that live streaming is good for the sport, good for pool rooms and good for the tournaments. I think watching the streams that are too far away for you to attend just gets you stoked up to play more. When I attend a tournament that has live streaming, I usually buy or watch the streaming in the motel while I'm resting between matches. I think the people who do not attend a tournament because it's being streamed is negligible and will be more than made up for by the interest and people who do attend. Live streaming pool tournaments is IMHO a win/win situation.

 

[coopersschon]

How much does it cost to have an event streamed by someone?

My guess is anywhere between $500 and $1,500 but that's just a guess.
How do the room owners make any money after the expenditure of paying for the streamers?

I noticed at least 2 different independent streamers that have posted on this thread. Maybe you guys can shed some light on the costs vs returns for the RO's.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Geno I congratulate you on taking an unpopular stand in this forum of rose colored, pool glasses. That takes a little courage.

Streaming is a good thing for the real big events. But you'll find that the real big events are going to be pay per view more and more. That's because there is enough money involved to make it almost viable.

As for local events the idea that it's good for the pool room owner, eh, not so much.

The first of my good friend Lenny's flawed arguments is that billions of people hit his stream. those are raw numbers bub. If you drilled down you would find that a majority of those visits last less than two minutes. If you want to count that as a potential customer, well, ok. But a real business person doesn't. Many of those ips won't even be real people. The Internet is flush with electronic visits. And that's not even counting that UStream is sending a high percentage of your hits through the website and you just happen to be in the way. These aren't customers. During the course of tuesday night you may get as many as 200 people that are potential customers that might happen by for a few minutes.

Every successful sport since the history of man and womankind starts with maximizing the revenue at the venue. It's this money that is the foundation of supporting a franchise and it's players. When the venue is packed with customers spending money that's when these successful sports start thinking about how can we make more money outside the venue. If people aren't coming then that's a whole other problem. But business 101 - don't give away opportunities for revenue especially if you're already a little underwater.

While it's very cavalier of forum members to offer their anecdotal accounts of how they just know that a customer stops by every couple months and that for sure they spend more money at the people hall because of the streams. Friends that does not pay my monthly light bills if i'm the room owner. I'm not betting my family's income on a couple pool players saying that in their opinion streaming is good for me. If you had to fight your way through in your own business you would better understand that. Because you build it doesn't mean a single stinking person will come.

The next flawed argument is somehow sponsors are not waking up to all this pool streaming financial potential. The pool sponsors know way better than you about ROI. WAY BETTER. And if they're not coming it's because it doesn't work or no one has been able to prove from a business perspective that it works.

I'm not going to even get into the flawed nature of the streams themselves. That loses enough potential sponsors and money alone to finance bigger tournaments.

So you want free streaming. The best thing you can do is support your venue and getting others to attend the tournaments. Help create a situation were the pool room owners can actually make some money. Then you can be in position to spend it for them.

p.s. A couple weeks ago St. Louis and the surrounding area could not watch the hometown Rams game. The reason the Rams only sold 60,000 tickets instead of 66,000. The NFL strictly forbids teams to broadcast games if the venue isn't sold out. Oh by the way, the teams themselves have the ability to buy up those tickets so it can be broadcast to the local fans. Do they? NO

Mike, you have time and time again said that the numbers are not there, I just posted hard proof, the average viewer by those numbers stays on for roughly an hour or so. Do not put words in my mouth about billions because I have never said that, thousands of viewers most certainly. I know the numbers can be flawed when it goes to Ustreams home page but the numbers I showed are when it was not and are about average. I do my streaming for free so it cost the venue I am at nothing other than the electric to run my laptop and camera so every person who has came to Kolby's and spent money from seeing the stream has been profit for them. What data to you have to back up your comments?

 

[mlalum]

Mike, you have time and time again said that the numbers are not there, I just posted hard proof, the average viewer by those numbers stays on for roughly an hour or so. Do not put words in my mouth about billions because I have never said that, thousands of viewers most certainly. What data to you have to back up your comments?

Lenny in no way do those stats say an average viewer spends an hour on your site. those are just numbers. please give us a rundown of how usstream comes to those numbers, how it determines viewers, what is actually counted as on your site and what is on usstream site, etc.

the most real numbers you should look at is how many viewers you have any one time. Those are clear for everyone who is watching to see. And they clearly do not correlate with anything you offer in these very gneral numbers. Please explain why that is.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Lenny in no way do those stats say an average viewer spends an hour on your site. those are just numbers. please give us a rundown of how usstream comes to those numbers, how it determines viewers, what is actually counted as on your site and what is on usstream site, etc.

the most real numbers you should look at is how many viewers you have any one time. Those are clear for everyone who is watching to see. And they clearly do not correlate with anything you offer in these very gneral numbers. Please explain why that is.

I have those numbers too Mike, they will tell you the average number of viewers you have watching for the stream, its not hard to figure out if you have 2000 unique viewers and 2000 hours viewed it averages out to 1 hour per viewer. I do not understand why its so hard for you to accept those numbers as they are not very big by most internet standards. Even if I gave you every bit of proof you ask for which I can show next time I stream (Saturday) you still will not admit your wrong. :wink:

 

[mlalum]

I have those numbers too Mike, they will tell you the average number of viewers you have watching for the stream, its not hard to figure out if you have 2000 unique viewers and 2000 hours viewed it averages out to 1 hour per viewer. I do not understand why its so hard for you to accept those numbers as they are not very big by most internet standards. Even if I gave you every bit of proof you ask for which I can show next time I stream (Saturday) you still will not admit your wrong. :wink:

Wrong about what Lenny. that you think because usstream can show you 1700 unique ip addresses that you think 1700 people came to your site to watch a tiny little local pool tournament and they all watched for an hour. put the koolaid away bud. or is the yukon jack. by the way jimmy joe didn't fix the internet because he thought your streaming was hurting his tournaments.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Live Streaming

Some good comments - and I also have some thoughts.

Streaming is different thing to different people.

I agree it is of value to larger venues. The question is what is the effect on the smaller, local venues.

There is always the new found awareness of the room and the tournament that can cause a new customer to come to the room. I know Kolby's has had some increased traffic fom that.

But I think this is a new method of communication and should cause more people to know about your product - which is the pool room or the event. I think that should be a good thing.

I think whether to live stream or not is only part of the situation. How well known is this 'event' - is it a weekly event or a monthly/yearly event? Is it the main event or just a feeder event to a larger future event?

If the room makes it exciting and interesting, then the room should get people and internet visitors. In time there will be viable ways to make these customers to both benefit the room.

But to ignore this new technology is probably 'not' the right answer. Basically, new technology needs to be embraced. To ignore it will mean your competitor has an advantage - which may hurt more than the threat of the actual streaming.

Just a lot of ramblings - but the future is now.

Mark Griffin

PS If I had a pool room, I would have 8 TV just for watching different live streams. Now they are buying my food and liquor. Plus now there are enough players for ring games etc. Just like having a pool table at home - the owner gets tired of playing by himself and wants the social interaction.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Wrong about what Lenny. that you think because usstream can show you 1700 unique ip addresses that you think 1700 people came to your site to watch a tiny little local pool tournament and they all watched for an hour. put the koolaid away bud. or is the yukon jack. by the way jimmy joe didn't fix the internet because he thought your streaming was hurting his tournaments.

Ummm, he had no way of fixing it, he has a tech who comes around here and there. When I did not stream the tournaments the tournament director Shoe said he felt that the tournaments dropped off quite a bit, something that cannot be proven either way. Whenever I do a stream I put it out on the net and people are reminded its coming up so they can come out and play. Have a good time with your tournament.

 

[mlalum]

Some good comments - and I also have some thoughts.

Streaming is different thing to different people.

I agree it is of value to larger venues. The question is what is the effect on the smaller, local venues.

There is always the new found awareness of the room and the tournament that can cause a new customer to come to the room. I know Kolby's has had some increased traffic fom that.

But I think this is a new method of communication and should cause more people to know about your product - which is the pool room or the event. I think that should be a good thing.

I think whether to live stream or not is only part of the situation. How well known is this 'event' - is it a weekly event or a monthly/yearly event? Is it the main event or just a feeder event to a larger future event?

If the room makes it exciting and interesting, then the room should get people and internet visitors. In time there will be viable ways to make these customers to both benefit the room.

But to ignore this new technology is probably 'not' the right answer. Basically, new technology needs to be embraced. To ignore it will mean your competitor has an advantage - which may hurt more than the threat of the actual streaming.

Just a lot of ramblings - but the future is now.

Mark Griffin

PS If I had a pool room, I would have 8 TV just for watching different live streams. Now they are buying my food and liquor. Plus now there are enough players for ring games etc. Just like having a pool table at home - the owner gets tired of playing by himself and wants the social interaction.

I don't disagree mark. i'm the last person that would say ignore modern technology. But what's the biggest leak in the boat. If the pool halls go under there's not much left. And the number of pool halls are not trending up.

so i say create events that people want to see. That's a whole nother problem. But make sure the venue has every opportunity to make money like they do in other profitable sports. To say streaming automatically helps that misses some of the fundamental business equation. Lot of posters want a free ride and can't see why a small venue wouldn't stream. (as it is pool players are the some of the cheapest customers there are. in fact proprietors moan about the tiny bit pool players spend. Much less than dart players for example.) There are viable business reasons. And if you sit across town watching an event on your computer that you could participate in you really have nothing to say about it.

Try to fix the biggest leaks first. Product and keeping pool halls open.