Cosmetics aside, which cue plays better? Dollar for dollar, is a custom cue a better player than say a Mezz or Schon? Does adding a performance shaft kind of negate the purpose of getting a custom cue? Do any cue makers just make butts so you can buy your shaft of choice? Is playability just about feel and personal preference or are there some considerations set in stone?
Custom or production cue?
- Thread starter luke
- Start date
You're going to get a bunch of opinions here. Mostly everyone will tell you that custom is better. I used to make cues, and I play with a Cuetec now. Am I against custom cues? Not at all. If you're in need of something special, like a longer cue, or a thicker diameter butt section, then custom is probably best. I am lucky in the fact that I play with a 19oz cue, and I'm 6' tall, so a standard 58" cue fits me.
With the custom cues, I was always worried about damaging the cue, bumping it against the table, or someone swinging a house stick into it. Now that I play with a $150 cue, I could really care less. I just play pool. No worries, and if I need a new shaft, I can price shop. When you buy custom, you are locking into custom prices. And, I have yet to see anyone actually prove that they make a better shaft than the production houses. They may "feel" that they do, but Predator and OB seem to have locked up the aftermarket shaft business, and both of those companies are production cue operations.
Just some food for thought.
With the custom cues, I was always worried about damaging the cue, bumping it against the table, or someone swinging a house stick into it. Now that I play with a $150 cue, I could really care less. I just play pool. No worries, and if I need a new shaft, I can price shop. When you buy custom, you are locking into custom prices. And, I have yet to see anyone actually prove that they make a better shaft than the production houses. They may "feel" that they do, but Predator and OB seem to have locked up the aftermarket shaft business, and both of those companies are production cue operations.
Just some food for thought.
I am a hunter/target shooter. I reload my own ammo. Back in the day a person could handload his own ammo to exact specs/tolerances with the components of his/her choosing to make better loads for their guns than the ammo companies could. Now, ammunition companies have in the past decade or so come out with better ammo, even using premium hunting and/or match bullets in their loads. Assembly-line machinery is better (this being due to computers and robotics) and the ammunition companies desire to provide better ammo to the sportsman has increased. IOW, it's all good for hunters and shooters now!
I think the same thing is starting to happen in the pool industry with cues. Now I'm not gonna stand here and say that any production cue is going to be a collectible piece of art or anything as stupid as that. What I am going to say is that I think some production cue companies (and others will surely follow) are starting to produce cues that PLAY better. Several examples would be Schon cues, Mezz cues, Cuetec R360 cues, and the Lucasi Hybrid cues. I've hit balls with all three of these cues and the ones that I used were very good-hitting cues. I will go as far to say that I wouldn't be ashamed to tell ayone if one of the aforementioned cues were in my case.
Now that being said, with the large numbers of custom cuemakers in the world (not to mention the butt-loads of them here in America), if you tested cues from ALL the cuemakers, you could probably find one that hits better than your basic R360, Hybrid, etc. But how many are you actually gonna get to try before you are ready to buy a cue? Or how much is that custom gonna cost you compared to the production cue just to obtain maybe a slightly better hit? You gotta add it all up and see what the best solution is for YOU. As hit is subjective to each individual assessing it, buying a cue of ones liking is very much the same situation. What may be gold to you may not impress others, and vice-versa.
If you're thinking of buying a cue the best advice I can give you is to decide on a maximum amount of dollars you can spend and TRY every cue that you possibly can in (or under) that price range.
Maniac
I think the same thing is starting to happen in the pool industry with cues. Now I'm not gonna stand here and say that any production cue is going to be a collectible piece of art or anything as stupid as that. What I am going to say is that I think some production cue companies (and others will surely follow) are starting to produce cues that PLAY better. Several examples would be Schon cues, Mezz cues, Cuetec R360 cues, and the Lucasi Hybrid cues. I've hit balls with all three of these cues and the ones that I used were very good-hitting cues. I will go as far to say that I wouldn't be ashamed to tell ayone if one of the aforementioned cues were in my case.
Now that being said, with the large numbers of custom cuemakers in the world (not to mention the butt-loads of them here in America), if you tested cues from ALL the cuemakers, you could probably find one that hits better than your basic R360, Hybrid, etc. But how many are you actually gonna get to try before you are ready to buy a cue? Or how much is that custom gonna cost you compared to the production cue just to obtain maybe a slightly better hit? You gotta add it all up and see what the best solution is for YOU. As hit is subjective to each individual assessing it, buying a cue of ones liking is very much the same situation. What may be gold to you may not impress others, and vice-versa.
If you're thinking of buying a cue the best advice I can give you is to decide on a maximum amount of dollars you can spend and TRY every cue that you possibly can in (or under) that price range.
Maniac
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A production cue with a good shaft (solid or LD) will play great, but if you want something special or unique you'll have to go the custom route.
I play with custom cues, but i've had some great playing production cues in the past (Schon cues in particular). I like Predator 314-2 shafts so a custom or production butt the right weight will work for me........
James
I too prefer the Predator 314-2 shafts. I forgot to mention in my previous post that I have a custom butt that I had made by Dave Jacoby and I have a stock Lucasi LE-66 butt that I use 314-2 shafts on. I cannot tell the difference in the "hit" of the two of them. Go figure.
Maniac
I guess I prefer the custom cues because you can do whatever you like with the aesthetics (visual aspects) and still garner the weight, length, balance point, ferrule (type and length), tip, wrap, shaft, etc. that you prefer for playing.
I've owned both custom & production and I've played in tournaments with both. I've found that neither is better at helping you make balls...only practice will do that.
It comes down to personal taste and feel. You could pick up a Meucci and play lights out with it all night long and pick up $10k Gus Szamboti and go "whats the big deal?". If you don't like the hit it doesn't matter.
I buy custom cues because I feel more attached to them. I selected the woods, the wrap, the basic specs, etc. I worked with the cuemaker during the build process and hopefully make a friend along the way. When you get the cue it just has a different feeling than a production cue...but that doesn't mean it is a better shooter.
The fit, finish, woods and any other material will be superior to the production cue...but unless your an "open" player, I'm not sure you will notice any difference in your play.
My regular player is a 20+ year old Joss...I'll never get rid of it. But I still order custom cues because I enjoy the process and look forward to building a nice collection over the years. I cherish them all...regardless of how they were built.
-Patrick
It comes down to personal taste and feel. You could pick up a Meucci and play lights out with it all night long and pick up $10k Gus Szamboti and go "whats the big deal?". If you don't like the hit it doesn't matter.
I buy custom cues because I feel more attached to them. I selected the woods, the wrap, the basic specs, etc. I worked with the cuemaker during the build process and hopefully make a friend along the way. When you get the cue it just has a different feeling than a production cue...but that doesn't mean it is a better shooter.
The fit, finish, woods and any other material will be superior to the production cue...but unless your an "open" player, I'm not sure you will notice any difference in your play.
My regular player is a 20+ year old Joss...I'll never get rid of it. But I still order custom cues because I enjoy the process and look forward to building a nice collection over the years. I cherish them all...regardless of how they were built.
-Patrick
Just keep in mind that a cue made by someone who makes cues one at a time in limited numbers is NOT a CUSTOM cue unless they made it specifically for YOU to YOUR specifications. Also keep in mind that if you opt for that route you will probably pay a lot if not all of the money up front and be waiting for several months, so if you are not the patient type I would go with a nice production cue like a Schon or a Pechauer or a Jacoby. If you are patient and know what you want in a cue then by all means go custom.
I think that "custom" cues should be referred to "hand-made" cues, although not completely accurate, but a much better description. "Custom" should be only referred to when its built specifically according to one's tastes.
I love this answer and analogy, so I will build on it. Ammo makers are making great ammo for some gun. Should it fit your chamber perfect, it will be great ammo for you. I still load my own because using my fired cases and sizing them properly, I still get a much better fit for my gun. I also still have more bullet choice flexibility and that is what really will make a gun shoot.
The relationship to cues is that by having a custom made, you get perfect fit to what the player wants. Maybe a production cue can fill your idea of perfect. To be honest, a production cue could fill my perfect, except for 2 things. Tip, but that is easy to change. Appearance. Appearance at the highest levels is still art and the custom guys have a corner on that market. Hit could be argued all day long, but I have hit with a few production cues which I felt were just fine. Still, in the end, in a custom, you can pick every last detail and that can be important for some people.
A custom cue is not “better” than a production cue but there are advantages and disadvantages.
First the most important thing is the shaft. That is where the work is done. I have an expensive cue with two original shafts with ivory ferrules. However, I play with a Predator shaft on the expensive cue because it is a better tool. It was a little disappointing to learn (through testing) that the Predator shaft played beter (less defelction) but that is the way it goes. Now I have three shafts and play with only the Predator. Every so often I try to go back to the original shafts but they are just not as good, though they are things of beauty.
I love my expensive playing cue and would play with no other. It makes me feel good to have this valuable piece of jewelry. I think that I played more often when I bought it because I had so much money involved. Most of my toys are second hand because I can’t justify paying so much for motorcycles, skid steers, and electronic gear. So when I have a cue worth over $2,000.00 it is a special item. Secretly, I like it that I usually have one of the best cues in the place no matter where I go.
The down side includes the idea that I am forever watching out for the damn thing. Boy would I feel horrible if someone stole it so it seems I spend half my time keeping my eye on my cue and case (the case is also expensive).
If I had it to do over I think I would just buy a good production cue with a Predator shaft. It is just too aggravating to be ever aware of where my cue is. However, I really like my current cue and in a sense I am stuck with it. Unlike many people here I do not buy and sell cues. I know what it is worth and I know I would never get what it is worth so it is mine forever.
Yeah it is true I am careful with it and try not to bang it around. I am like that with all of my toys so it is no big deal. But you can’t play with it for 15 years and not bang it around now and again. I had the original cue maker refinish it for $150.00 and that was a fair price. About three months later I dinged it pretty good so the refinish is only for my satisfaction.
I guess it depends on the type of person you are, I now know that I never should have bought such an expensive cue to be used as a playing cue, but I did and I will keep it for as long as I play. Then I will pass it on to my kids or my grandchildren.
I would recommend that you put as much money into your cue as you do in your other toys. My cue is specual but it is a little too special.
My cue is worth about $2,500 and I only paid $3,000 for my last 650 V Star motorcycle so the cue is way out of bounds for me.
First the most important thing is the shaft. That is where the work is done. I have an expensive cue with two original shafts with ivory ferrules. However, I play with a Predator shaft on the expensive cue because it is a better tool. It was a little disappointing to learn (through testing) that the Predator shaft played beter (less defelction) but that is the way it goes. Now I have three shafts and play with only the Predator. Every so often I try to go back to the original shafts but they are just not as good, though they are things of beauty.
I love my expensive playing cue and would play with no other. It makes me feel good to have this valuable piece of jewelry. I think that I played more often when I bought it because I had so much money involved. Most of my toys are second hand because I can’t justify paying so much for motorcycles, skid steers, and electronic gear. So when I have a cue worth over $2,000.00 it is a special item. Secretly, I like it that I usually have one of the best cues in the place no matter where I go.
The down side includes the idea that I am forever watching out for the damn thing. Boy would I feel horrible if someone stole it so it seems I spend half my time keeping my eye on my cue and case (the case is also expensive).
If I had it to do over I think I would just buy a good production cue with a Predator shaft. It is just too aggravating to be ever aware of where my cue is. However, I really like my current cue and in a sense I am stuck with it. Unlike many people here I do not buy and sell cues. I know what it is worth and I know I would never get what it is worth so it is mine forever.
Yeah it is true I am careful with it and try not to bang it around. I am like that with all of my toys so it is no big deal. But you can’t play with it for 15 years and not bang it around now and again. I had the original cue maker refinish it for $150.00 and that was a fair price. About three months later I dinged it pretty good so the refinish is only for my satisfaction.
I guess it depends on the type of person you are, I now know that I never should have bought such an expensive cue to be used as a playing cue, but I did and I will keep it for as long as I play. Then I will pass it on to my kids or my grandchildren.
I would recommend that you put as much money into your cue as you do in your other toys. My cue is specual but it is a little too special.
My cue is worth about $2,500 and I only paid $3,000 for my last 650 V Star motorcycle so the cue is way out of bounds for me.
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JoeW - I couldnt agree more with you except on the Shaft front. For me, my cue wouldnt be the cue it is without the shafts provided by the cue maker (Wayne Holmes Custom Cues of North Carolina). Ive always used Maple, so its what I am used to, you may have always used Predators, therefore always used them.
I just love the whole hit of my cues
I just love the whole hit of my cues
The good thing with custom is that you get to pick EVERYTHING you like and having it made into a cue. Specific designs, wood choice, shaft size, weight, materials, joint and pin and so on. When you buy a production cue, you kinda always have to make a compromise even the smallest but if you find one and you like everything about it then get this one and not the other one in the backstore (assuming you buy the cue in a store in person).
Trust me, its in the little details that a good cue stand out and if you want to make sure you get everything right, I would suggest a custom cue.
Try other people's cues and ask them about the specifics of it to see what you like about it so you can stack up ideas for your dream cue
Trust me, its in the little details that a good cue stand out and if you want to make sure you get everything right, I would suggest a custom cue.
Try other people's cues and ask them about the specifics of it to see what you like about it so you can stack up ideas for your dream cue
This subject comes up once or twice a year. For further insight from past threads, you may wish to use the Search feature at the top of the Main section.
With that said....first thing you need to figure out before spending you hard earned cash is what type of 'hit' do you like in a cue. Do you like the stiffer hit of say a one piece barstick, or a little more flex? This will narrow the field for you, in both production and custom cues.
Bear in mind, the shaft, ferrule, and tip are THE business end of the cue, but not all shafts are created equal. Typically, with a maple shaft, a custom maker is going to have a higher quality shaft wood in his stock. Based on your desires, he can handpick through that stock to find a shaft that will be to your liking. That is not going to happen on the production side, as a rule. I am not going to address typical LD shafts, as I do not use them...preferring to trust the maker to match the right shaft to the butt.
Next, do you like a meatier butt or a thinner butt? Some folks prefer the meatier old school feel in the butt...while others prefer thinner.
The point I am trying to make is this...know what you want first. Once you figured out what you like, then you can narrow your choices down, on both the custom and the production sides. Either can play well for you, it's really knowing what you want first.
Lisa
With that said....first thing you need to figure out before spending you hard earned cash is what type of 'hit' do you like in a cue. Do you like the stiffer hit of say a one piece barstick, or a little more flex? This will narrow the field for you, in both production and custom cues.
Bear in mind, the shaft, ferrule, and tip are THE business end of the cue, but not all shafts are created equal. Typically, with a maple shaft, a custom maker is going to have a higher quality shaft wood in his stock. Based on your desires, he can handpick through that stock to find a shaft that will be to your liking. That is not going to happen on the production side, as a rule. I am not going to address typical LD shafts, as I do not use them...preferring to trust the maker to match the right shaft to the butt.
Next, do you like a meatier butt or a thinner butt? Some folks prefer the meatier old school feel in the butt...while others prefer thinner.
The point I am trying to make is this...know what you want first. Once you figured out what you like, then you can narrow your choices down, on both the custom and the production sides. Either can play well for you, it's really knowing what you want first.
Lisa