CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett

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pj do you consider yourself informed enough to be giving opinions on cte
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I clearly state the information on which my opinions are based - more clearly than any CTE user has stated the information on which his opinion is based.

And yes, I think the information I have is more than enough for the opinions I have. I don't think you see all of the information I have about CTE (some of it is reasoned information, not "given" information), so you think I have less than I do.

considering the fact you have no idea how to do it,how it works,why it works
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For instance, I know considerably more about this than you think.

never even attempted to learn it.
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And never will, unless it turns out to be something very different from what I think. That's not a slam; it's just not for me.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Sure, if you mean "used in conjunction with the player's 'feel' for aiming".


CTE is clearly not "just like ghost ball or any other aiming system" because it does not define a complete, accurate CB/OB alignment in simple terms. Both CTE and ghost ball rely on the player's ability to execute, but of the two only ghost ball defines the necessary aim completely and simply.

This isn't necessarily a disadvantage for CTE (in fact, it may be just what its users need). It's just the often repeated, totally unsubstantiated, and almost certainly impossible, claim that CTE users insist on making - probably because they just don't know any better (and mistakenly think it's some kind of insult).

pj
chgo
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The "it" I referred to was not Cte, but rather the visual feel necessary to implement any system short of using your cue or cuetip to diagram a shot out on the table. You can expand on this and say you visually feel the ghostball position or contact point or parallel lines, etc. Unless you've figured out how to incorporate a laser into your PSR without anyone noticing, you visually feel all these things. Though they are real world physical landmarks, you still must visually feel your way to the correct shot alignment.

Cte and 90/90 users comment on the simplicity of using it. Though the technical aspects are currently being reviewed, many who use it do so without definition. Hopefully this gap will be bridged and the system will be validated. We already know there is feel involved...just like blah, blah and blah.

Stand behind a shot and aim it with your method of choice. Now close your eyes and approach the shot. Get down on the shot and pull the trigger. Any luck? Did you hit the CB? Although this is a painfully obvious example, my point is feel is a major component of most systems.

What ever category Cte falls into, there should be the understanding and acceptance that within physical abilities and correct implementation of the system, users will be successful. And like most systems there are elements yet to be fully explained and linked with Cte. Feel is definitely a common denominator. Simple execution is another.

Best,
Mike
 
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eezbank said:
:woot::woot:
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Cuts both ways, dude.


sp.jpg

Dave could post his links nonstop for years and never equal the advertising for CTE that goes on here.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
CTE is clearly not "just like ghost ball or any other aiming system" because it does not define a complete, accurate CB/OB alignment in simple terms. Both CTE and ghost ball rely on the player's ability to execute, but of the two only ghost ball defines the necessary aim completely and simply.

This isn't necessarily a disadvantage for CTE (in fact, it may be just what its users need). It's just the often repeated, totally unsubstantiated, and almost certainly impossible, claim that CTE users insist on making - probably because they just don't know any better (and mistakenly think it's some kind of insult).

pj
chgo
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And how do you know this ?
 
Mike:
Feel is definitely a common denominator. Simple execution is another.
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CTE does not define a precise aiming solution like ghost ball does. Unlike ghost ball, feel is a necessary part of how CTE's aiming solution is defined, not just a normal part of execution.

Feel free to emphasize the similarities between all systems; but to balance the message I'll continue to point out this fundamental difference between CTE and "exact" systems like ghost ball.

pj
chgo
 
And Happy Thanksgiving to you RandyG. Charlie told me to tell you HI, and he had some very good things to say about you as an instructor.
2011 will be a special year.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Cuts both ways, dude.


View attachment 161889

Dave could post his links nonstop for years and never equal the advertising for CTE that goes on here.

pj
chgo
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I don't see anyone jumping in any of his threads to spam him when he advertises or promotes his products.

Love the straw man argument though. Thanks for the entertainment.

Ez< wondering when PJ will get it...
 
In ghost ball, do you not need to find the "point of contact" on the object ball, through feel? I know where/how to set up to find the exact point of contact with cte consistently, using just the QB/OB and a pre shot set up routine, which i will repeat from shot to shot, Cte will find the point of contact for me, is what im sayng. Am I missing something here or maybe I don’t understand ghost ball because i do suck at pool? :)
 
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eezbank said:
I don't see anyone jumping in any of his threads to spam him when he advertises or promotes his products.
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Here's your chance:

Have fun,
Dave

PS: I like your creative avatars and attached images, especially Spock with the Vulcan Salute. Again, both angles between his fingers are wrong, but he gets an "A" for effort.
 
champ2107 said:
In ghost ball, do you not need to find the "point of contact" on the object ball, through feel?
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I would say that finding the ghost-ball contact point is sufficiently trivial that it involves no feel. A typical amateur is just as good at it as is a pro.

I know where/how to set up to find the exact point of contact with cte consistently, using just the QB/OB and a pre shot set up routine, which i will repeat from shot to shot, Cte will find the point of contact for me, is what im sayng. Am I missing something here or maybe I don’t understand ghost ball because i do suck at pool? :)
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You can't do it using just the cueball and object ball. You must involve the pocket as well. Sometimes the player wants the object ball cut by 37 degrees, other times by 39 degrees. There's no getting around

(1) deciding which of these you want, and
(2) finding the stick line that achieves it

You can move the judgment around, but you can't get rid of it.

Aiming systems are about moving the judgment around to fit your perception strengths.
 
When I walk up to the table and see what pocket i have decided to shoot the ball in, can u tell me how that pocket becomes involved in my aiming other than that is the pocket i decided to pocket the ball in?

Also are you talking about cheating the pocket or blocked pockets?


added after: Its sounds to me like you have never used cte?

I guess spider cheated some way on this video or did some kinda photoshop magic???
http://www.youtube.com/user/unvmygame#p/a/u/0/815E5WwCjwY
 
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Can the Proof Be Possible?

Almost every time the subject of aiming systems comes up on one of the forums, the posters start disagreeing and the thread degrades into an off topic flame war. Taking into account what they say about opinions, I believe that the critics either can’t stand the idea that a system of any kind is possible or they think they are trying to hide what they believe to be an inside secret, or at least a secret they believe gives them a competitive edge.
The system(s) I have been taught are strictly for pocketing balls and do nothing more than provide a means of accurate ghost ball striking. These systems can probably be proved by applying Thales Theorem for inscribed angles: An inscribed angle inside a circle, one side of which is a diameter always subtends to a right angle opposite the diameter line. On a pool table, the diameter line through a ball pointed to a pocket, which happens to be the corner of a square inside which the ball is situated, forms a right triangle the exact same shape as those formed by the contact point to the center of the pocket and to both of the rails extending from that pocket. While this is not rocket science, I think this is the principle on which most of the aim and pivot type systems are based. I also think someone with a proficient background in geometry would be able to develop a good proof analysis. I have been trying to come up with a diagram of proof but cannot quite get there. If one does nothing but visualize the two triangles in the object ball and cue ball, or better yet, develops a system for visualizing it in the cue ball, the ghost ball, and the object ball, it should be beneficial to some extent. I certainly don’t claim to be an expert, but I have had success with the aim and pivot method, cue stick alignment methods, and simple visualization. I suggest there is no one-size-fits-all and I have not discussed variables, like throw, deflection, etc.
The following, based on Thales Theorem, applies only to the striking of an object ball at a specific point and all of the aforementioned contains personal observations, some related.

A GEOMETRIC PROOF
Aim at the object ball contact point from an offset position on the cue ball in the direction of the cut.

Pivot the cue to the center of the cue ball for a center ball hit.

These two steps move an inscribed angle inside the ghost ball which forms a right triangle with the 90 degree angle at the contact point.

This is the hard proof and it is nothing more. There will be success and failure, much of which will be the subject of conjecture, but most of the systemic performance problems will probably be with the fact that we are working with a blunt 12 to 13 mm. thick aiming device.
 
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