CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett

[JoeyA]

Thank you Neil. I know you appreciate my stuff, and I don't put you in the "CTE angry mob" category. You seem like a very reasonable, insightful, and logical person.

Neil,

Your point is well taken. I have mocked CTE's claims at times. I've also worked hard to understand its benefits. (I won't provide the link again ... people know where to find it.) Honestly, it is extremely difficult to resist the urge to mock CTE after all of the sometimes-ridiculous claims and hype we've heard over these many, many years. But I'll try to be a "good boy."

I do look forward to meaningful discussion after the DVD comes out, because then there will be a definitive resource.

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

You mistake CTE users presenting THEIR PERSPECTIVE for some scientific paper.

I haven't made a single claim about CTE/Pro One that I wouldn't demonstrate to anyone.

EVERY single thing that I say about CTE/Pro One is what I EXPERIENCE and what I SEE.

You nor any of the other naysayers get it and you probably never will.

CTE/Pro One is an ACCURATE and finite aiming system.

The CTE/Pro One video isn't even out and you NAYSAYERS are trying to poison the water and poison the forum.

CTE/Pro One can help some people play better pool (even banking).

CTE/Pro One will not make you a great player. (Some people like me need a lot more than a good aiming system).

Personally, I don't care what you or any of the other naysayers have to say about CTE/Pro One (EVEN AFTER YOU REVIEW THE VIDEO).

NONE OF YOU HAVE TAKEN THE POOL LESSON FROM STAN SHUFFETT.

NONE OF YOU ACTUALLY KNOW OR UNDERSTAND CTE/PRO ONE BUT THAT DOESN'T KEEP YOU FROM PONTIFICATING, MOCKING, RIDICULING AND IN GENERAL CAUSING ILL WILL IN THE FORUM.

You unfortunately won't get much appreciation from me even if you drank the whole dam barrel of CTE/Pro One.

As a "professional", you really haven't carried yourself as one when it comes to CTE/Pro One. I genuinely am disappointed.

And as to the rest of the naysayers, they aren't any better.

The whole bunch of you naysayers have painted yourself into a corner and can't afford for you to lose more face than you already have.

To knock an aiming system, that you have NEVER seen in person, to MOCK an aiming system that you have never seen, to RIDICULE an aiming system that you have not researched PROPERLY; well it's just an embarassment.

Oh yeah, "CTE/Pro One won't make you a great player". (Does that do it for you?)

 

[Mikjary]

dvd status

I spoke with Stan a couple of days ago and he mentioned he was reviewing the dvd and making sure it was ready for release. He wants to be satisfied it is a professional product and and communicates his instruction well to all who view it.

I'm sure this project has been a strain on him mentally, physically and financially these last couple of months. He has invested a lot of himself to put out this information. Knowing Stan's sincerity and attention to detail leaves no doubt it will be a success.

Best,
Mike

 

[champ2107]

This is the truth of the matter - Dave is being attacked by the CTE mob because he hasn't drunk the CTE Kool-Ade. He's a voice of unwelcome reason among all the content-free hymn-singing here in the Church of CTE. Stan (may his DVD outsell all others) forbid that any secular questions be raised against The Word by the heathen unbelievers. They shall be cast out and stoned by the faithful.

(Uh oh, now I've offended Joey's delicate religious sensibilities again. I'm gonna get the BIG FONT TREATMENT for sure.)

pj
chgo

Dr Dave is a smart guy and he realized he missed the boat with Cte and he didnt think anything would come of it when he first learned about it and didnt follow up on it.

He maybe worried his dvd's will fade away now after all that work he put into them now. His videos seem more for the beginner/average player and I see Cte as useful for the beginner to pro and has potential to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, in the pool world. <<< Dr Dave see's this!

Dr Dave I think see's Cte as a competitor and tried to discredit it and its users and he sucked in guys like PJ and a few others to get on his bandwagon without them even knowing it.

Going head to head with users of Cte was low and dumb for others considering a dvd is about to hit the market ...ijs

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

&/$%//&§)"&$/%

What is wrong with you?
Calm down, dude!

 

[Neil]

One thing to be clear on, Dr. Daves videos and CTE are not mutually exclusive. The more arrows one has in their quiver, the less likely they are to make a mistake. They both compliment each other nicely.

 

[JoeyA]

What is wrong with you?
Calm down, dude!

Not a thing.

I'm all good.

I just respond this way when I see an injustice being perpertrated against friends.

When the naysayers as a pack, start treating CTE/Pro One users with decency and respect, posts like that will be hard to find.

 

[JB Cases]

Believe me ... the feeling is mutual.

Very disappointed in CTE-Joey lately, :frown:
Dave

PS: I really liked the pre-CTE Joey a lot, but now you seem like a different person.

Maybe that's because the pre-CTE Joey wasn't a Dr. Dave target.

Let me see if I can put this in a better light for you.

If someone came along and reviewed the VEPS and every other post was pointing to other resources besides the VEPS where one could get the information, such as Robert Byrne's books and tapes, some of which are excerpted on Google Books, blogs, and other websites then you MIGHT feel a little stung by that.

Maybe not. But surely you can understand the inappropriateness of it. Or if someone were to do a review of one of my competitor's cases and I stepped in the thread every "chance" to link to my cases.

You do have a great resource and you do provide a great service. However when it comes to CTE you have missed the mark. And I don't care that you have "collected" a bunch of "information" from other people.

YOU don't have a single description of CTE that comes from YOU. You have no video showing you using CTE and proving your contentions about it.

So in essence YOU don't know anything about CTE other than what you have read on these forums and what you feel based on what you have read. You may have "tried" it but since you have not gotten any one-on-one instruction (to my knowledge) I can see why you would not get it.

So the reason that we who have tried and USE it are not happy with your behavior is because you constantly spam threads like this with your mocking posts and endless links. And then of course the more someone complains the more you thumb your nose and come back over the top with more links.

WE like the Dr. Dave who stays out of CTE threads as well unless he has something of real value to contribute. A post that makes fun of and mocks CTE, it's teachers and it's users is not helpful nor of value. A post that links to your site's "CTE Resource page" for the 100th time is not helpful or valuable. And certainly posts that link to your site's other resources are not helpful or valuable in a CTE thread.

I feel like I am talking to myself and honestly I see behavior in you that I know I have been guilty of and right now, looking at how it must look to others, I am very ashamed of it.

I sincerely hope that you take just a little time to reflect on what I have said. We all like what you have done for pool. I have said that I think you should be in the hall of fame someday. Please consider leaving this topic alone until you can investigate it thoroughly with video. Otherwise you are not helping to clear it up and are only causing further divisiveness and animosity.

Best,

John Barton <-------fan of VEPS and IEP and Dr. Dave's work!

 

[Tom In Cincy]

1007 posts and here is the top ten AGAIN;

When will these guys GIVE UP? or will they ever GIVE UP.

rank/poster/ # of posts/ rank 200 posting ago (800)/new posts

#1lfigueroa 94 Still #1 only 10 posts
2 Patrick Johnson 86 Still #2 only 9 posts
3 JoeyA 72 Up from #5 up 25 posts
4 JB Cases 66 dropped from #3 up only 9 posts
5 cookie man 57 up from #6 up 13 posts
6 peteypooldude 51 Up from #9 up 16 posts
7 champ2107 49 Still #7 only up 7 posts
8 GetMeThere 48 down from # 4 ZERO posts
9 dr_dave 46 up from # 11 only up 12 posts
10 Neil 42 down from #8 only 4 posts

Second 10
11 Shawn Armstrong 36 dropped from #9 ZERO posts
12 Mikjary 32 Still #12 only 6 posts
13 eezbank 28 up from # 14 only 8 posts
14 SpiderWebComm 22 down from #13 only ONE post
15 sfleinen 17 up from #16 only TWO posts
16 stan shuffett 16 down from #15 No NEW POSTS

 

[eezbank]

Thanks for posting Tom.

1007 posts and here is the top ten AGAIN;

When will these guys GIVE UP? or will they ever GIVE UP.

rank/poster/ # of posts/ rank 200 posting ago (800)/new posts

#1lfigueroa 94 Still #1 only 10 posts
2 Patrick Johnson 86 Still #2 only 9 posts
3 JoeyA 72 Up from #5 up 25 posts
4 JB Cases 66 dropped from #3 up only 9 posts
5 cookie man 57 up from #6 up 13 posts
6 peteypooldude 51 Up from #9 up 16 posts
7 champ2107 49 Still #7 only up 7 posts
8 GetMeThere 48 down from # 4 ZERO posts
9 dr_dave 46 up from # 11 only up 12 posts
10 Neil 42 down from #8 only 4 posts

Second 10
11 Shawn Armstrong 36 dropped from #9 ZERO posts
12 Mikjary 32 Still #12 only 6 posts
13 eezbank 28 up from # 14 only 8 posts
14 SpiderWebComm 22 down from #13 only ONE post
15 sfleinen 17 up from #16 only TWO posts
16 stan shuffett 16 down from #15 No NEW POSTS

 

[champ2107]

How is it possible that Pj and GMT have a combined 137 posts in this thread going head to head with cte system users telling them, it does not work without even trying it

 

[JB Cases]

Joey,

Thank you for the well written trip report and your thoughts on the system. I look forward to receiving my DVD.

 

[mlalum]

Maybe that's because the pre-CTE Joey wasn't a Dr. Dave target.

So the reason that we who have tried and USE it are not happy with your behavior is because you constantly spam threads like this with your mocking posts and endless links. And then of course the more someone complains the more you thumb your nose and come back over the top with more links.

WE like the Dr. Dave who stays out of CTE threads as well unless he has something of real value to contribute. A post that makes fun of and mocks CTE, it's teachers and it's users is not helpful nor of value. A post that links to your site's "CTE Resource page" for the 100th time is not helpful or valuable. And certainly posts that link to your site's other resources are not helpful or valuable in a CTE thread.

I feel like I am talking to myself and honestly I see behavior in you that I know I have been guilty of and right now, looking at how it must look to others, I am very ashamed of it.

I sincerely hope that you take just a little time to reflect on what I have said. We all like what you have done for pool. I have said that I think you should be in the hall of fame someday. Please consider leaving this topic alone until you can investigate it thoroughly with video. Otherwise you are not helping to clear it up and are only causing further divisiveness and animosity.

Best,

John Barton <-------fan of VEPS and IEP and Dr. Dave's work!

Dr. Dave has never been anywhere close to approaching your behavior JB. You bloviating on other people's behavior is the funniest thing i've read this week. Your use of WE is really funny too. Like anyone wants to be associated with your insane behavior.

As far as spam is concerned your oversized case picture is the biggest spam on this thread. Have a nice day. And those emails and PMs you send me you really shouldn't bother as i delete them as soon as i see them.

 

[sfleinen]

Recommendation for Stan, next time you talk to him

I spoke with Stan a couple of days ago and he mentioned he was reviewing the dvd and making sure it was ready for release. He wants to be satisfied it is a professional product and and communicates his instruction well to all who view it.

I'm sure this project has been a strain on him mentally, physically and financially these last couple of months. He has invested a lot of himself to put out this information. Knowing Stan's sincerity and attention to detail leaves no doubt it will be a success.

Best,
Mike

Hi Mike!

Thanks for the DVD status. I'm certainly looking forward to my copy.

One thing I was hoping you can relay to Stan, though, the next time you talk to him:

• Please tell him to stay away from outright "is accurate" statements or claims in the video itself. For example "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any PROOF as to why it's "an accurate center-pocket system." I don't have to tell you that I echo the sentiments of quite a few folks on these boards who are sick and tired of the unsubstantiated claims. Making balls fly into the center of the pockets is *NOT*, and I repeat *NOT*, "proof." What *is* proof, is if he overlays the table with such things as laser or chalk lines, and describes the math why "x" amount of pivot arrives at the correct location (the ghostball location) to pocket the ball.

I'm sure doing all the math mumbo-jumbo is not Stan's purpose in the video -- as he wants to *teach* the system itself, for the purposes of helping people elevate their game. And there's nothing wrong with that; that is the point of the video afterall. But if he's going to try to pontificate that "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any proof *why* (again, pocketing balls is NOT proof), it's going to rub quite a few of the insightful types the wrong way.

I can make videos all day long doing a pirouette before I get down on a shot -- and explain "this 'is' the reason" why I'm pocketing balls like water because, oh, I don't know, "it keeps the sight of the table surface 'fresh' in my mind by mixing up the images." But, without showing the math/geometry behind it (or a scientific reason why), it's nothing but useless pontification.

Please note I mention this as 100% CONSTRUCTIVE input. I'd like to see this video meet the needs of a much larger demographic than merely those folks who are already signed-on and onboard with CTE/pivot-aiming.

With the best of intentions,
-Sean

 

[Slide Rule]

Dave, this is just MY opinion, and should not be confused with what anyone else might or might not think about the subject.

In my opinion, your work and your links are a valuable part of what this forum is supposed to be. And, I really appreciate them, and have linked to them myself in the past.

Now, with that being said..... you are feeling a bit of a sting right now in this thread. Quite frankly, you have deserved it. Now you know how Stan and Spidey feel! They try and help others, and get flamed for it. Just as you now are experiencing "the shoe on the other foot". But, you brought it on yourself with all your jabs at CTE. IMO, you handled the whole thing wrong. You could have just said that you don't fully understand it yet, and left it at that. Instead, you have chosen to mock it many times. When you do that, don't be too surprised when your stuff then starts getting mocked.

Well said!

As an Engineer, just about anything physical can be minutely described and used for prediction. At least, I thought so when I was younger. Pool is a humbling experience that is overcome by actual improved efficiency gained by living on or under a table.

I have visited Dave's site many times and have purchased one of his and Tom's videos. His site is very good and video is excellent. I will acquire more of the videos.

But the general feeling that I perceive, is that Dave has not paid his dues. He is paying them now through the slings and arrows. Every negative does not require a thread response. Perhaps a PM from time to time would address specific issues.

 

[scrappy]

wOw where do you guy's find the time to type all this stuff ?

seriously why not just agree to disagree ? this stuff is getting old, if you like something and it works for you then fine just use it without all the drama and derogatory comments

a forum is supposed to be about sharing ideas / information NOT a non stop argumet about which aiming system is superior geez

 

[champ2107]

Hi Mike!

Thanks for the DVD status. I'm certainly looking forward to my copy.

One thing I was hoping you can relay to Stan, though, the next time you talk to him:

• Please tell him to stay away from outright "is accurate" statements or claims in the video itself. For example "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any PROOF as to why it's "an accurate center-pocket system." I don't have to tell you that I echo the sentiments of quite a few folks on these boards who are sick and tired of the unsubstantiated claims. Making balls fly into the center of the pockets is *NOT*, and I repeat *NOT*, "proof." What *is* proof, is if he overlays the table with such things as laser or chalk lines, and describes the math why "x" amount of pivot arrives at the correct location (the ghostball location) to pocket the ball.

I'm sure doing all the math mumbo-jumbo is not Stan's purpose in the video -- as he wants to *teach* the system itself, for the purposes of helping people elevate their game. And there's nothing wrong with that; that is the point of the video afterall. But if he's going to try to pontificate that "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any proof *why* (again, pocketing balls is NOT proof), it's going to rub quite a few of the insightful types the wrong way.

I can make videos all day long doing a pirouette before I get down on a shot -- and explain "this 'is' the reason" why I'm pocketing balls like water because, oh, I don't know, "it keeps the sight of the table surface 'fresh' in my mind by mixing up the images." But, without showing the math/geometry behind it (or a scientific reason why), it's nothing but useless pontification.

Please note I mention this as 100% CONSTRUCTIVE input. I'd like to see this video meet the needs of a much larger demographic than merely those folks who are already signed-on and onboard with CTE/pivot-aiming.

With the best of intentions,
-Sean

those same people u speak of will just find something else to ***** about, do you actually think a guy like pj wouldnt find something wrong in his eyes even if the dvd was made perfect? no offence ment pj ...ijs

 

[peteypooldude]

Hi Mike!

Thanks for the DVD status. I'm certainly looking forward to my copy.

One thing I was hoping you can relay to Stan, though, the next time you talk to him:

• Please tell him to stay away from outright "is accurate" statements or claims in the video itself. For example "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any PROOF as to why it's "an accurate center-pocket system." I don't have to tell you that I echo the sentiments of quite a few folks on these boards who are sick and tired of the unsubstantiated claims. Making balls fly into the center of the pockets is *NOT*, and I repeat *NOT*, "proof." What *is* proof, is if he overlays the table with such things as laser or chalk lines, and describes the math why "x" amount of pivot arrives at the correct location (the ghostball location) to pocket the ball.

I'm sure doing all the math mumbo-jumbo is not Stan's purpose in the video -- as he wants to *teach* the system itself, for the purposes of helping people elevate their game. And there's nothing wrong with that; that is the point of the video afterall. But if he's going to try to pontificate that "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any proof *why* (again, pocketing balls is NOT proof), it's going to rub quite a few of the insightful types the wrong way.

I can make videos all day long doing a pirouette before I get down on a shot -- and explain "this 'is' the reason" why I'm pocketing balls like water because, oh, I don't know, "it keeps the sight of the table surface 'fresh' in my mind by mixing up the images." But, without showing the math/geometry behind it (or a scientific reason why), it's nothing but useless pontification.

Please note I mention this as 100% CONSTRUCTIVE input. I'd like to see this video meet the needs of a much larger demographic than merely those folks who are already signed-on and onboard with CTE/pivot-aiming.

With the best of intentions,
-Sean

If I said it was NOT a center pocket system, In my eyes I would be lying.
If I line a straight in shot up using cte and apply follow, I WILL scratch
behind the ob. One of the big things I have noticed about the system
is that I hit the ob squarer(if thats a word) than anyone I play with.
That being on the break or straight in. I do beleive it will exceed
expectations. If some remember, I was against the release of cte. I wanted to keep it a secret.
It is truly amazing. But OTOH it does not take the place of knowledge.
I have seen a beginner pocketing balls using cte, But that does not
mean they KNOW the shots, They just know how to make them. It
does not tell you when to play safe or how to get shape. I will say that
I think the players who are using basic cte are going to see results faster
than those who are still using GB.
Sorry my typing is so bad Sean lol :embarrassed2:
Petey

 

[peteypooldude]

wOw where do you guy's find the time to type all this stuff ?

seriously why not just agree to disagree ? this stuff is getting old, if you like something and it works for you then fine just use it without all the drama and derogatory comments

a forum is supposed to be about sharing ideas / information NOT a non stop argumet about which aiming system is superior geez

I dont like the arguments either, But this topic is followed by some
extremely smart mouth people. It does get old. Watch the replies and you will see
Have a Great Day
Petey

 

[sfleinen]

those same people u speak of will just find something else to ***** about, do you actually think a guy like pj wouldnt find something wrong in his eyes even if the dvd was made perfect? no offence ment pj ...ijs

champ2107:

Perhaps. But the point is not to "assume," throw your hands up in the air, and say "oh screw it -- the only people that are going to buy this DVD are folks already signed-on with CTE/pivot-aiming, so I'll just speak from the pulpit for them." I'm sure that's NOT what Stan wants to do. Sure, he *could* and get away with it -- those already signed-on with CTE/pivot-aiming will nod their heads in acknowledgment when Stan goes, "Pro/1 'is' an accurate center-pocket system" without any kind of infrastructural proof.

Those that aren't already signed-on with CTE/pivot-aiming (i.e. the beginners, the inquisitive [like myself], or the curious skeptics) will raise an eyebrow, perhaps mutter a few words, and then eagerly look forward to the explanation why -- only to have that most important/expected part be skipped/glossed over.

In summary, I think it'd be best if Stan just explained the system -- stick to the guts of the system, how to implement it, etc., and not even touch the sales pitches at all. If an introduction is needed in the beginning of the video, just explain that it's an aiming system that is an alternative to the traditional ghostball method, perhaps explain some of the virtues of it (e.g. "it's good for people who have trouble visualizing the ghostball"), and leave it at that.

Leave the Billy Mays and "Vince" stuff to the infomercials. I like a Bob Vila or Norm Abram approach instead.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean

 

[champ2107]

If I said it was NOT a center pocket system, In my eyes I would be lying.If I line a straight in shot up using cte and apply follow, I WILL scratch behind the ob. One of the big things I have noticed about the system is that I hit the ob squarer (if thats a word) than anyone I play with.

That being on the break or straight in. I do beleive it will exceed expectations. If some remember, I was against the release of cte. I wanted to keep it a secret.

It is truly amazing. But OTOH it does not take the place of knowledge. I have seen a beginner pocketing balls using cte, But that does not mean they KNOW the shots, They just know how to make them. It does not tell you when to play safe or how to get shape. I will say that I think the players who are using basic cte are going to see results faster than those who are still using GB.
Sorry my typing is so bad Sean lol :embarrassed2:
Petey

u just have to stop hitting enter when u type petey :thumbup: