Inlaying another makers cue upon customers request.

[Michael Webb]

Mike ,

How do you feel about a different maker fixing an inlay that is messed up by the original maker? Is that ok since it would be considered a repair?

Sometimes communication with the original parties involved has been lost and it's not always a situation that's repairable. Repairing an inlay is not disrespectful at all, It's another maker protecting the original maker from future conversations that could end badly. Every single cue maker I know has some glass windows in his house and when one cracks, it's amazing how many will follow and crack too. I think you'll understand that statement.

 

[Michael Webb]

I think one would be pretty naive to think this hasnt happened 100's of times. It is a common practice and has been for a long time.

I was told that one of the earliest cue dealers did this all the time. Most collectors know this.

Ken

Hi Ken
I also think you are correct which is part of the reason I wanted to do a thread on this subject. My hope is that some makers will actually read it and especially the new guys and not be afraid to tell someone no, and this is why.
I was raised that if you tell someone no, you should show enough courtesy to say why.

 

[Jr's Farm]

In your (maybe not so) hypothetical situation, is it that someone is passing the entire cue off as their own that is drawing your ire? Or just someone defacing an original and passing the the whole cue off as original?

If, for instance, a Plain Jane (insert known builder here)'s cue is modified, and the name removed, and left anonymous thereafter, is that still irksome? Just curious.

Also, where do you draw the line; dufferin, Brunswick, titlist, helmstetter, BB?

I've personally never done this, but a client is bugging me to inlay his Peschauer. I'm conflicted over it myself. If I ever decided to do it, I'd likely remove the original sig and leave it anonymous. Is that sacrilege?

Regards,
Frank

 

[conetip]

I guess all hot rod cars are wrong too.
There could be lots of reasons to have someone other than the original maker , make changes to the cue.
It is only when it comes to resale that it needs to be mentioned that not all the work on the cue is from the original maker.But heck, after xx number of years,unless the cue came with a certificate,who is going to remember great uncle Henry had the cue modified and by who.
Unless the seller or buyer is in the know,who is going to tell them the value of what they have.

 

[cuemaker03]

I agree with Mike Webb on this one, but I am curious as to how he feels if the original cuemaker has stopped making cues?

 

[Michael Webb]

In your (maybe not so) hypothetical situation, is it that someone is passing the entire cue off as their own that is drawing your ire? Or just someone defacing an original and passing the the whole cue off as original?

If, for instance, a Plain Jane (insert known builder here)'s cue is modified, and the name removed, and left anonymous thereafter, is that still irksome? Just curious.

Also, where do you draw the line; dufferin, Brunswick, titlist, helmstetter, BB?

I've personally never done this, but a client is bugging me to inlay his Peschauer. I'm conflicted over it myself. If I ever decided to do it, I'd likely remove the original sig and leave it anonymous. Is that sacrilege?

Regards,
Frank

Hi Frank, I don't draw lines, if it's a finished cue by another maker I don't do it. If it's a cue such as a titlist that I choose to convert into a cue, I use my imagination but try to keep it in line with a classic looking cue. As for you last sentence, Only you can choose what kind of Cue maker you want to become. I've been doing this since 1991, I have learned an awful lot from some great people and some not so great people. You could always give Mr. Pechauer a call and ask what he thinks about you doing this.

 

[Michael Webb]

I guess all hot rod cars are wrong too.
There could be lots of reasons to have someone other than the original maker , make changes to the cue.
It is only when it comes to resale that it needs to be mentioned that not all the work on the cue is from the original maker.But heck, after xx number of years,unless the cue came with a certificate,who is going to remember great uncle Henry had the cue modified and by who.
Unless the seller or buyer is in the know,who is going to tell them the value of what they have.

Hi Neil
We sure aren't talking hot rods here and as I have already stated, Only you can decide what kind of maker you want to be. I always say if I piss into a fan, I'm gonna get wet but there are those that swear then can dodge the spray.

 

[Michael Webb]

I agree with Mike Webb on this one, but I am curious as to how he feels if the original cuemaker has stopped making cues?

Hi Mike
Explain further Please. Was this something that you've experianced or someone else? Did the person who did this have permission from the original maker? I sure don't have all the answers. I'm just a wood pecker who turns wood.

 

[cuemaker03]

If a cue came into your shop by a maker who was still alive, but had stopped making cues and it was a dead plain jane, plain phenolic rings, no wrap, and a little oversized would you consider adding inlays if asked to do so. Would you look to obtain the makers permission first, or simply turn it away. Also how do you feel about cutting a wrap groove into another makers no wrap cue?

 

[patrickcues]

Mike:

I like the point that you are making here! I am reading not only as morally wrong but ethically wrong also! I wont inlay into a another's custom cue! I really like this thread!

 

[Michael Webb]

Mike:

I like the point that you are making here! I am reading not only as morally wrong but ethically wrong also! I wont inlay into a another's custom cue! I really like this thread!

Thank you Sir. Your have always been a good man in my eyes. This really is one of those threads that most people don't think about til it's to late, YUP, the cue goes up for sale and the shiit hits the fan. But to some of us, it's so much more.

 

[Michael Webb]

If a cue came into your shop by a maker who was still alive, but had stopped making cues and it was a dead plain jane, plain phenolic rings, no wrap, and a little oversized would you consider adding inlays if asked to do so. Would you look to obtain the makers permission first, or simply turn it away. Also how do you feel about cutting a wrap groove into another makers no wrap cue?

Wrapping a wrap-less would really depend on the cue., Inlays, I'm pretty firm on not doing it. As a golden rule, if I change the handle on a cue. I consider the cue and always call the maker. Handles are done on an individual basis. But there are some that should only be touched by the original maker, I would say it's important to know, who's who. Restoration work is different and again it's based on an individual basis.
Example, I had a Gina cue here from a friend in Mass, broken butt cap, I wouldn't touch it and explained why, so I called Ernie up and sent it to him. Ernie understood and appreciated my call. You might think, well, it's just a butt cap, It's not just a butt cap. It's the butt cap of an expensive cue made by a legendary Cue maker with a logo on it. See my point. Been a very long day, I'm looking crosseyed, sleep sounds like the next option, Nite Y'all


More shafts to cut tomorrow or is that today.

 

[Craig Fales]

In my opinion; once a cuemaker sells a cue it is no longer his cue. It belongs to the person who paid for it. This new owner has the right to do anything with that cue that pleases him. That includes refinishing the cue, rewrapping the cue, having a new shaft made for that cue, changing the ferrule, changing the tip, changing the weight of that cue or for that matter having new inlays installed into that cue. I have done all of the above and never considered that it could be offensive to the original maker.

I still think the owner of anything has the right to do anything with that item that he pleases, whether it be a custom cue, custom car or anything else.

If it bothers you that another cuemaker would add an inlay to a cue which was made by another maker then maybe you should no longer do any of the work mentioned in paragraph 1 above.

Let me ask you this, would you want a hack do something to your cue that makes it look like crap with big gaps around the inlay for example. The only name that is on that cue is yours. Now people who don't know a hack worked on it is going to assume that is what you did on said cue. Do you want people assuming that about you?

 

[Craig Fales]

So quick question.....if a new cue maker like myself whom does not own a cnc yet....makes a cue that is ment to be an inlayed cue......designs the inlays.....and even know how to write the program and have the file stored on a zip drive......approaches another cue maker with a cnc with the request to either cut the inlays or let the new cue maker use his or her machine to cut the inlays........I have not done this but honestly I have 4 cues I am waiting on a cnc to finish and have been tempted to do just this......how do yall feel about that??? This has been a question on my mind lately......I have always prided my self on doing 100% OF all work myself.....I don't use any kind of blank exept for house cues....I don't buy shaft blanks even....cut them outta boards I buy.....soooo.......I'm very torn....I'll probably just wait until I have my own.....but still a good question

If they were to let you use their equipment and you still were the only one to touch the cue then I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Michael Webb]

If they were to let you use their equipment and you still were the only one to touch the cue then I don't see a problem with that.

Good Morning Mr. Fales
Thank you

 

[blackpearlmaker]

Very nice thread the Mr. Webb. Lot of good points are showcased. And as i see it one thing must be learn, And that would be Respect to every Cuemakers work, even if he is a beginner or experieced. I know that the demand on this situation are from the customers. But still the cuemaker has the final word if he will choose the money or respect to his fellow craftsmen. On my observation, All cues needs for some upgrades, repair, etc. must be back to the original maker. As a sign of respect specially when it comes in adding of inlays and that would be a big issue.
I can't imagine what was void when someone altered somethings which is not original to him.

 

[Michael Webb]

Very nice thread the Mr. Webb. Lot of good points are showcased. And as i see it one thing must be learn, And that would be Respect to every Cuemakers work, even if he is a beginner or experieced. I know that the demand on this situation are from the customers. But still the cuemaker has the final word if he will choose the money or respect to his fellow craftsmen. On my observation, All cues needs for some upgrades, repair, etc. must be back to the original maker. As a sign of respect specially when it comes in adding of inlays and that would be a big issue.
I can't imagine what was void when someone altered somethings which is not original to him.

Good Morning Mr. Bautista
Thank you very much.

 

[cutter]

Inalying another makes cue

Mike,
You sure come up with some thought provoking threads.
I think it is a completely wrong to do. I think it would be like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Someone mentioned Plain Janes. Well they are still our creation. We pick the individual wood and we use our construction techniques. I don't want someone else's inlays added to my core cue.
Don't see many owners doing it, but I bet the ones that would, don't go to the hall and say. Here's my "______", oh by the way, the dog crap inlays were done by "want to be cuemaker".

As for the hot rod analogy, not many one of a kind hand made cars running around that can be modified. Most hot rod owners that I know, like to brag about how much they modified the base car, of which thousands were made.
Sort of like a Titleist. And by the way, I never met this Titleist guy, so guess he can't get mad if I modify his cue. He must hang out with buds, Chevy and Ford.

Now I'm having night mares about pink ivory inlays in a tulip wood cue. You know those big ones with the rounded ends.

 

[Michael Webb]

Mike,
You sure come up with some thought provoking threads.
I think it is a completely wrong to do. I think it would be like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Someone mentioned Plain Janes. Well they are still our creation. We pick the individual wood and we use our construction techniques. I don't want someone else's inlays added to my core cue.
Don't see many owners doing it, but I bet the ones that would, don't go to the hall and say. Here's my "______", oh by the way, the dog crap inlays were done by "want to be cuemaker".

As for the hot rod analogy, not many one of a kind hand made cars running around that can be modified. Most hot rod owners that I know, like to brag about how much they modified the base car, of which thousands were made.
Sort of like a Titleist. And by the way, I never met this Titleist guy, so guess he can't get mad if I modify his cue. He must hang out with buds, Chevy and Ford.

Now I'm having night mares about pink ivory inlays in a tulip wood cue. You know those big ones with the rounded ends.

Good Morning mr. Klein
Thank you, sometimes I get lucky with a thought. Not to often though. hmmmm, pink ivory and tulip wood huh, yummmm :help::crying:

 

[classiccues]

I believe that most buyers are savvy enough to pick up on when a cue has been modified from it's original state by someone other than the original maker . A good example would be the southwest in the w/fs section that JV started a thread on . I would say that it made the cue more attractive cosmetically but killed the value . I wouldn't want the cue for even 1/5 of what the owner is asking. It has now become a Bastard child that nobody but the owner would want IMO. Everything about the cue has changed it is more of a Richard HSU cue now than a Southwest.

There was also a BB around that keeps popping up that was inlaid by Phillippi . Usually the second or third post in the thread outs the cue as a non-original.

Matt

Matt,
You're such a drama queen I started a general thread about things I have noticed in the for sale section and someone else outted that cue.

The funny thing about that BB by Phillippi is that no one wants to touch it and the value has been bought way down. The flip side is that Harry Richards cue that Dennis Searing inlayed, or helped, or whatever, that everyone trips over when it comes up for sale. There is a famous cue called the Balaboti, I don't think I need to spell out the two cuemakers involved. There has always been debate onto it's true value. But I would say the value is and should be very high. (plus this cue was practically destroyed when it was put back together so the story goes)

In general, this is a bad practice. A refinish, rewrap, etc.. one thing. But trying to add value through inlays I'd hope more people would turn down the request.

JV