1pocket Question

[lfigueroa]

I don't think there really is a wrong shot here. It looks like your opponent is going to have some type of bank left no matter what. If they can get out being down 6-3 from here then they deserve the game.

I think getting the 6 up near the 1 as close to the rail as possible is a good play. Leaving it on the head string or lower could give your opponent another ball if they make a bank and giving more options on turning the game in their favour.

No, I don't think you can be thinking that. At even moderate levels of play (to say nothing of the higher levels) both guys should be a threat at 6-3 with the balls like this (the 8/9 combo bank favors him defensively and offensively), not necessarily to win outright, but to tie the game or or at least get two and draw within one. If I've got a three ball advantage and only need two I have to fight to keep it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Big Perm]

I see what you're saying, Big Perm, but as I see it, that almost forces the guy to shoot the 8/9 combo bank. Unless he really butchers that shot he's going to end up with three open balls on his side. AND, if he she-ats out, he could conceivably make a ball on a shot like that.

Lou Figueroa

Good points, thanks for the lesson.....

 

[bstroud]

Hi, Bill, long time no talk.

I really like your idea and to be honest hadn't thought of it (I don't think anyone else did either), but it's a great idea. I'm going to give a try today and see how it works out. I'll report back.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

Hard to tell from the diagram but it looks like you could bank the 6 ball 2 rails to your long rail and tuck the cue ball behind the cluster forcing your opponent to break up or snuggle up to your cluster. In either case you will have the advantage and can break up the cluster and send him up table.

Bill

 

[brandoncook26]

You know it's a funny thing about playing bank pool players 1pocket. I've beaten Piggy (twice) and Jarvis (once) and the late Charlie Green (broke even) and they were not such tough matches for me. I'm not saying I want to play them every day, but I think there is a distinction to be made between a Bank Pool player and a good 1pocket player who knows how to bank. Of course, Brumback fried me twice

Lou Figueroa

Yeah, but although Johnny is an amazing banks player (maybe the best), he is in no way a slouch at the other disciplines. I'm surprised he doesn't do better in one hole and 9 ball every year at the derby (I think he won the 9ball all star in Lexington in the 90's).

 

[lfigueroa]

I hit that kick shot good, but I'm not so sure the likely outcomes are as likely as you paint them. But, I shall try the kick today and report back.

Lou Figueroa

OK, so I tried the kick today and I got a double kiss, and sold out a bank; and hit it too thick, and sold out a bank.

I believe the issue is that the ball is frozen to the rail, making for a small target -- if the six where off the cushion a scooch and in a big ball type of position, then it might make more sense to me.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Hard to tell from the diagram but it looks like you could bank the 6 ball 2 rails to your long rail and tuck the cue ball behind the cluster forcing your opponent to break up or snuggle up to your cluster. In either case you will have the advantage and can break up the cluster and send him up table.

Bill

OK, Bill, I gave you shot a couple of tries today and I think you win the prize for the best solution. My first try I ended up coming up just a little short of getting to the 8/9, but basically got close enough to hide everything else on the table form a direct hit. On the second try I made it to the 8/9 and opened then up and did not give up a shot. So I like it. The only thing is that you have to hit the shot a touch harder than you might first thing to get the follow to widen up the path of the CB. But once you commit to the shot, it's the way to go, IMO.

Thanks!

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Yeah, but although Johnny is an amazing banks player (maybe the best), he is in no way a slouch at the other disciplines. I'm surprised he doesn't do better in one hole and 9 ball every year at the derby (I think he won the 9ball all star in Lexington in the 90's).

He's scary at everything and if he gets into trouble he *can* whip in some banks on you

Lou Figueroa

 

[dabarbr]

OK, so I tried the kick today and I got a double kiss, and sold out a bank; and hit it too thick, and sold out a bank.

I believe the issue is that the ball is frozen to the rail, making for a small target -- if the six where off the cushion a scooch and in a big ball type of position, then it might make more sense to me.

Lou Figueroa

Yes, it's quite understandable that there is a big difference if the ball is frozen or very tight to the rail. This would be the deciding factor to me weather to take this shot or not. Being off the rail about a quarter inch to three quarters would be ideal. I liked the shot because you can get the cue ball uptable to possible take away the bank on the two ball in the open there.

Thanks for taking the time to test and getting back to us with your results.

 

[14.1pocket]

If I've got a three ball advantage and only need two I have to fight to keep it.

I agree. There are many options here. Breaking up the 8/9 on this inning seems like the worst one to me. Shooting the 6 and leaving long banking options is the shot I would prefer here and I think minimizes damage if there is going to be any.

 

[The Renfro]

If the 6 is frozen to the rail I m definitely spin kicking it loading the cueball with high left so it crawls back up table ...

You get a feel for this type of shot and you end up with the cueball up table between the 1 and pocket with the 6 in the bottom of your pocket or with the 8/9 playing blockers. With the 6 now on you side he cannot shoot the 8/9 carom bank or he sells the 6...

I don't like the 6 in the banking lane of the 3 because the 1ball 2 railer he made on you should have been a freebie as he should have hit it with english and speed to use the 6 ball's position that you set up to possibly block an easy clear of the 1 if he left it in his hole. This will keep you defensive for multiple innings while he 1rails, 2rails and 3rails balls down to his hole...

One of Grady's tapes shows the spin kick and using it to move balls and play safe... Is the only thing I think I recall from whichever tape it was..

 

[lfigueroa]

If the 6 is frozen to the rail I m definitely spin kicking it loading the cueball with high left so it crawls back up table ...

You get a feel for this type of shot and you end up with the cueball up table between the 1 and pocket with the 6 in the bottom of your pocket or with the 8/9 playing blockers. With the 6 now on you side he cannot shoot the 8/9 carom bank or he sells the 6...

I don't like the 6 in the banking lane of the 3 because the 1ball 2 railer he made on you should have been a freebie as he should have hit it with english and speed to use the 6 ball's position that you set up to possibly block an easy clear of the 1 if he left it in his hole. This will keep you defensive for multiple innings while he 1rails, 2rails and 3rails balls down to his hole...

One of Grady's tapes shows the spin kick and using it to move balls and play safe... Is the only thing I think I recall from whichever tape it was..

The problem with the frozen six is that you have to hit it *perfect* for it to work out. There is no margin for error.

Try Bill's shot -- it's the nuts.

Lou Figueroa

 

[bstroud]

OK, Bill, I gave you shot a couple of tries today and I think you win the prize for the best solution. My first try I ended up coming up just a little short of getting to the 8/9, but basically got close enough to hide everything else on the table form a direct hit. On the second try I made it to the 8/9 and opened then up and did not give up a shot. So I like it. The only thing is that you have to hit the shot a touch harder than you might first thing to get the follow to widen up the path of the CB. But once you commit to the shot, it's the way to go, IMO.

Thanks!

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

This shot is a good lesson on one pocket for everyone. On every one pocket shot shot you should try to do at least two things. On most shots you can do more than that. I learned from Eddy Taylor that the more balls you can move toward your pocket on every shot the better.

On this particular shot the closer the 6 is to the rail the easier it is to judge.
The cue ball will slow down when the 6 is close to the rail so that is why you need to hit it a little harder than you might think.

Bill Stroud

 

[Zbotiman]

OK, Bill, I gave you shot a couple of tries today and I think you win the prize for the best solution. My first try I ended up coming up just a little short of getting to the 8/9, but basically got close enough to hide everything else on the table form a direct hit. On the second try I made it to the 8/9 and opened then up and did not give up a shot. So I like it. The only thing is that you have to hit the shot a touch harder than you might first thing to get the follow to widen up the path of the CB. But once you commit to the shot, it's the way to go, IMO.

Thanks!

Lou Figueroa

Lou, how about telling us what you had to do with the cue-ball to get it over to the 8 & 9 by the rail after hitting the 6 away? With the cue-ball as close to the rail as it appears in the diagram, the speed of the shot looks awkward. It also appears like if you hit the 6 hard enough to get the middle ball collision on the 6 to spin it over to the 8 & 9, the object ball might travel as far as 3 or maybe even 4 rails and be heading back towards the same pocket? Just like to hear your thoughts on this shot.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

This shot is a good lesson on one pocket for everyone. On every one pocket shot shot you should try to do at least two things. On most shots you can do more than that. I learned from Eddy Taylor that the more balls you can move toward your pocket on every shot the better.

On this particular shot the closer the 6 is to the rail the easier it is to judge.
The cue ball will slow down when the 6 is close to the rail so that is why you need to hit it a little harder than you might think.

Bill Stroud

Absolutamente, Bill. It's true in the end game and also true during the opening -- you can't just be bunting balls away.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, how about telling us what you had to do with the cue-ball to get it over to the 8 & 9 by the rail after hitting the 6 away? With the cue-ball as close to the rail as it appears in the diagram, the speed of the shot looks awkward. It also appears like if you hit the 6 hard enough to get the middle ball collision on the 6 to spin it over to the 8 & 9, the object ball might travel as far as 3 or maybe even 4 rails and be heading back towards the same pocket? Just like to hear your thoughts on this shot.

It's like Bill said, the closer to the rail the easier it is.

You're right: at first glance the shot looks awkward. BUT, if you put follow on the CB, with a little speed, the CB will "hold up" from the follow still on the ball when it comes off the rail and its path will widen up.

Lou Figueroa