Aiming Voodoo Video

[3RAILKICK]

Ron, I really appreciate the fact that you get paid for what you do. However, as a Christmas present to all of us, would you be willing to give away SOME tidbits on 90/90 for us?? I'm not asking you to give it all away for free, just what you can feel comfortable with. Not many of us are able to come to you, so here is all we can get.

Neil, I do not get paid unless someone comes to NYC and then i let them stay at my place so they can save at least $250.00 a night I play poker for a living and made $75,000 last year.Do you think I can make that giving lessons..I do it because the people really want learn the system and I enjoy teaching it..All my phone lessons are free and i spend an hour to an hour and a half...

I will teach you guys anything you want to learn for free I have said that in the past. So fire away with the questions.
I will do it on the forum or on the phone. 212-737-0077, And it will be more than tidbits

Anytime Neil
Regards
Ron V.[/QUOTE]

Ron V-

I have thanked you privately, but I want to thank you again publicly for spending your time generously on the phone with me recently.

It's coming together. If you make it to the printer after the holidays-I'm still very interested.

Thank you

Merry Christmas

Bill

 

[mikepage]

Well I tried me some 90/90 today and it's freaking awesome so far. [...]

3-angles was awesome

CTE was awesome

90/90 is awesome

Maybe we should just figure out what you used to do, and teach people to not do it.... just a thought...

 

[Monkey-Boy]

Could someone (RonV prefferably) explain fully what the hip pivot is? I live in the UK, so calling NYC or anywhere in the US for any length of time is going to cost a hell of alot of cash on my phone bill.

I mainly use CTE, its the only aiming system I have been taught, I use CTE on all shots, except for thin cuts, then I use the 90/90 system which is awesome for these shots.

Merry Christmas from the UK

 

[champ2107]

3-angles was awesome

CTE was awesome

90/90 is awesome

Maybe we should just figure out what you used to do, and teach people to not do it.... just a thought...

whats is this all about? what is your opinion on cte/90/90 aiming and instructors like yourself teaching it as a new aiming system?

 

[champ2107]

Could someone (RonV prefferably) explain fully what the hip pivot is? I live in the UK, so calling NYC or anywhere in the US for any length of time is going to cost a hell of alot of cash on my phone bill.

I mainly use CTE, its the only aiming system I have been taught, I use CTE on all shots, except for thin cuts, then I use the 90/90 system which is awesome for these shots.

Merry Christmas from the UK

get down on the table aiming at the left edge of the cue ball and hold that position, now dont move your feet or bridge, now move your hips [ass] to the left and stop when the tip of your cue hits center cb. this is a easy way to do it.

 

[LAMas]

90/90 pivot-based aiming system

What are the basics of the 90/90 pivot-based aiming system?

Here's a video demonstration of a version of the 90/90 system: http://vimeo.com/17712024

from cleary:

If you break the ball up into 10% increments, you want to line your cue up so that you are aligning the last 10% of the cue ball and object ball... or as Ron V calls, 90/90.

90/90 (pocketing without side spin/english)



Pivot your HIPS to the center of the cue ball. You should now be lined up to make the shot. If you pivot past center ball, don't try to fix it while your down, just get up and start over.



http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#ninety

 

[JB Cases]

3-angles was awesome

CTE was awesome

90/90 is awesome

Maybe we should just figure out what you used to do, and teach people to not do it.... just a thought...

Maybe you should stop being a jerk. Merry Christmas.

I never used 3 Angles. I used (and still use) a system I learned from Hal which I call the quarters. It works. It's great. No pivot required.

However Hal Houle is AWESOME and so is Ron Vitello.

Both of these men have spent a lot of time figuring out alternative ways to line up to the shot. What they have figured out works and for some reason that bothers you. I don't know why and frankly I don't care.

When I find something that I think is awesome I will tell people about it. If you don't think it's so great then PROVE why it's not. It's a simple proposition Mike. You have a pool room, you have a video camera, you have a ton of knowledge, you play better than I do.

So prove it. You clearly are on the negative side of the fence here so instead of jabbing at me why don't you just prove your assertions (whatever they may be).

Because I am not going to stop promoting Hal Houle and Ron Vitello and their aiming systems. I fully believe that these guys are pioneers in this and that in the future teaching and being taught their methods will be standard for all medium to advanced level players.

For my Christmas gift to myself I am going out to buy the best webcam I can for recording my overhead videos. Those videos will get put out there on YouTube and every other video hosting site known to man. So if I were you I'd get busy on the counter-videos if you intend to make them.

90/90 what little of it I know so far rocks! But don't take my word for it, learn it yourself and form your own opinion.

 

[JB Cases]

By the way Mike Page, I didn't get Pat banned, he did that all by himself. I ignored him and did not respond any more to what he wrote. So I don't even know what he got banned for exactly. From what I can read here he was asked to back off the attacks and decided to tell off the moderator or something like that. It's obvious that you think all these aiming systems are nonsense. They aren't and it would be great if you put your mind to figuring out why they work because they clearly do.

But whatever you choose to do is up to you. At some point we will cross paths again and I will try again to win some lunch money from you. Until then be good.

 

[mlalum]

Maybe you should stop being an jerk. Merry Christmas.

I never used 3 Angles. I used (and still use) a system I learned from Hal which I call the quarters. It works. It's great. No pivot required.

However Hal Houle is AWESOME and so is Ron Vitello.

Both of these men have spent a lot of time figuring out alternative ways to line up to the shot. What they have figured out works and for some reason that bothers you. I don't know why and frankly I don't care.

When I find something that I think is awesome I will tell people about it. If you don't think it's so great then PROVE why it's not. It's a simple proposition Mike. You have a pool room, you have a video camera, you have a ton of knowledge, you play better than I do.

So prove it. You clearly are on the negative side of the fence here so instead of jabbing at me why don't you just prove your assertions (whatever they may be).

Because I am not going to stop promoting Hal Houle and Ron Vitello and their aiming systems. I fully believe that these guys are pioneers in this and that in the future teaching and being taught their methods will be standard for all medium to advanced level players.

For my Christmas gift to myself I am going out to buy the best webcam I can for recording my overhead videos. Those videos will get put out there on YouTube and every other video hosting site known to man. So if I were you I'd get busy on the counter-videos if you intend to make them.

90/90 what little of it I know so far rocks! But don't take my word for it, learn it yourself and form your own opinion.

Well what exactly did Mike Page say to be called a JERK by JB Cases. This must be a new way not to be negative i guess.

 

[Nick B]

JB is a child with a Teflon jumpsuit. For some reason the MOD's tolerate his methods and tirades. I suspect he has pictures. Nothing else explains it.

Nick

Well what exactly did Mike Page say to be called a JERK by JB Cases. This must be a new way not to be negative i guess.

 

[Monkey-Boy]

90/90 pivot-based aiming system

What are the basics of the 90/90 pivot-based aiming system?

Here's a video demonstration of a version of the 90/90 system: http://vimeo.com/17712024

from cleary:

If you break the ball up into 10% increments, you want to line your cue up so that you are aligning the last 10% of the cue ball and object ball... or as Ron V calls, 90/90.

90/90 (pocketing without side spin/english)

View attachment 165626

Pivot your HIPS to the center of the cue ball. You should now be lined up to make the shot. If you pivot past center ball, don't try to fix it while your down, just get up and start over.
View attachment 165627


http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#ninety

Thanks for the diagrams...but I thought that this system was all about the Hip Pivot? If thats the case, the 2nd picture shows the Pivot Point at the bridge hand.

Merry XMAS!

 

[champ2107]

u didnt read my post i showed u a basic easy hip pivot that you will need to adjust with experience and shooting different angles. This stuff is not hard to learn but takes a while to master. Start off with a almost strait in shot and learn to pivot and go from there.

 

[RonV]

ron could you explain your hip pivot? I am having to slide my bridge hand over to get back to center. It does work for me, but leaves a lot of room for error.

Thanks

shev

ps jaw and dave thanks for responding to my question.

shev, when you get down on the cb ball you should be lined up with the center of the cb the way your going to end. So when you start your 90/90 and then turn your hip nothing else should move because the stick will move with the body and then stop at cener and that will put you dead center..

Ps, evryone wants to know where the pivot is. Well the pivot is always in your fingers open or closed bridge and that never changes. If the shot is long or short it will always be the same. I hope this helps you. If you need more just let me know.

Ron v.

 

[RonV]

Well I tried me some 90/90 today and it's freaking awesome so far. I understand the "hip pivot" a little I think. I don't really know yet what shots are a Edge to Edge vs. an Edge to Center but let me tell you this is the real deal. No video yet because my webcam I hooked up to the ceiling decided it does not like 30 feet of usb cables strung together. I am going to hunt for one that does pan and tilt and zoom and also a long usb cable.

Can anyone recommend a good piece of software for capturing video from a webcam that is FREE? I was using the logitech software that came with the logitec camera - but since the camera is out so is the software. I downloaded a couple programs but they all suck.

John, all shots are 90/90 as long as they are more than 2 diamonds apart..If the CB and THE OB are 4,5,6,7 diamonds apart you can aim them all the same way with no adjustment.That's the beauty of this method. You can shoot 90/90 from a semi straight to a half ball it and they will all go in..

Ok so why. Everytime the shot moves from one to the other the 90/90 goes right to the cut point just like the CTE except you do not have to change your aim position..So that's why i like the 90/90 because on all those shots i don't have to do anything. Not to say ther is anything wrong with CTE remember all systems work. Now you must remember this gives you a center ball hit..If you want outside spin just aim center to center, CB and OB then swivel 1 tip right or left depending on the cut. Now you can draw or hit with high follow.

Inside spin is for another day. I hope this answers alot of your questions, if not keep asking and i will give what ever you need..

Your Friend
Ron V

 

[RonV]

3-angles was awesome

CTE was awesome

90/90 is awesome

Maybe we should just figure out what you used to do, and teach people to not do it.... just a thought...

Hi Mike. I have nothing against you because your entitled to your opinion. BUT I feel sorry for you because you seem like a very lonely soul on this forum. It seems like your fighting for your life with your sly remarks.

Don't you kmow when you lost. It's like a fighter who goes down for the count but trying to get up on 11.MIKE YOUR ALL ALONE NOW.

Good Luck And Good Hunting
Ron V

 

[LAMas]

RonV,
To me then, 90/90 starts at center of the CB to center of the OB while approaching the shot. The cue is then aimed 90 on the CB to 90 on the OB which creates a parallel shift to the side of the CTC.

This shift will, for the same cut angle, be a smaller distance at the OB (90)as the separation between the CB and OB is greater and the OB appears to be a smaller and smaller diameter. I believe that this reduces the included angle after the pivot for OBs down table...self compensating.

In order to align correctly to the center of the CB while pivoting at the bridge, one needs to move the hip and the butt (at the side of the hip - normal position) of the cue to the side...until the tip is now aimed at the center of the CB.

For now, I shuffle my feet to the side when I effect the "hip pivot".

It works for me.

Thanks:thumbup:

 

[RonV]

RonV,
To me then, 90/90 starts at center of the CB to center of the OB while approaching the shot. The cue is then aimed 90 on the CB to 90 on the OB which creates a parallel shift to the side of the CTC.

This shift will, for the same cut angle, be a smaller distance at the OB (90)as the separation between the CB and OB is greater and the OB appears to be a smaller and smaller diameter. I believe that this reduces the included angle after the pivot for OBs down table...self compensating.

In order to align correctly to the center of the CB while pivoting at the bridge, one needs to move the hip and the butt (at the side of the hip - normal position) of the cue to the side...until the tip is now aimed at the center of the CB.

For now, I shuffle my feet to the side when I effect the "hip pivot".

It works for me.

Thanks:thumbup:

You should start at the 90/90 point but be in line with center of the CB that way when turn The hip and the tip goes to center you will have perfect alignment with center of the CB. You should never start in line with 90/90.Remember parallel shift does not cut the ball only swivel shift does..
IF YOU WERE TO AIM A CUT SHOT STRAIGHT IN THE POCKET WITH ANY SYSTEM AND ADD PARALLEL ENGLISH THE AIM POINT WOULD NEVER CHANGE.

Ron V

 

[jsp]

shev, when you get down on the cb ball you should be lined up with the center of the cb the way your going to end. So when you start your 90/90 and then turn your hip nothing else should move because the stick will move with the body and then stop at cener and that will put you dead center...

Ps, evryone wants to know where the pivot is. Well the pivot is always in your fingers open or closed bridge and that never changes. If the shot is long or short it will always be the same. I hope this helps you. If you need more just let me know.

You should start at the 90/90 point but be in line with center of the CB that way when turn The hip and the tip goes to center you will have perfect alignment with center of the CB. You should never start in line with 90/90.Remember parallel shift does not cut the ball only swivel shift does..
IF YOU WERE TO AIM A CUT SHOT STRAIGHT IN THE POCKET WITH ANY SYSTEM AND ADD PARALLEL ENGLISH THE AIM POINT WOULD NEVER CHANGE.

Hi Ron. From your descriptions, it seems like the pivot point is the bridge hand and it never changes throughout the whole process. So if the bridge is already "lined up with the center of the cb" to begin with, why not simply point the cue at the center of the CB right from start? What is the purpose of pointing to the 90/90 point and pivoting back to center ball if you can point to center ball right at the beginning? Am I misunderstanding something ? Thanks. And Merry Christmas.

 

[BRKNRUN]

John, all shots are 90/90 as long as they are more than 2 diamonds apart..If the CB and THE OB are 4,5,6,7 diamonds apart you can aim them all the same way with no adjustment.That's the beauty of this method. You can shoot 90/90 from a semi straight to a half ball it and they will all go in..

Ok so why. Everytime the shot moves from one to the other the 90/90 goes right to the cut point just like the CTE except you do not have to change your aim position..So that's why i like the 90/90 because on all those shots i don't have to do anything. Not to say their is anything wrong with CTE remember all systems work. Now you must remember this gives you a center ball hit..If you want outside spin just aim center to center, CB and OB then swivel 1 tip right or left depending on the cut. Now you can draw or hit with high follow.

Inside spin is for another day. I hope this answers alot of your questions, if not keep asking and i will give what ever you need..

Your Friend
Ron V

Make it STOP!!!....I can't get away with playing with alignment methods!!!! Damn it all!!!!

Thanks for posting this info Ron.....I am glad you posted the bolded part.....I have messed with 90/90 (as well as many many other methods)....and I fully see how this works for the (what I call) shallow angles....

I was about to post how the method (just like all methods) start to fail (ME) when it goes beyond a half ball hit....(this 45-75 degree range seems to be where all methods start to have problems)...I am glad you posted the bolded part above...

What/how is the method applied for (beyond half ball)????

I have been trying to start with a 90/45 and pivot to center..but I am not sure if this is correct...(I would like your feedback on the correct method for beyond half ball hits...especially in the 45-75 degree range)

Your method seems to be a natural progression for a method I came up with...I call it the Bass Ackwards Alignment Method.....

Most people go stand directly behind the OB to find the line to the pocket....The common problem/complaint about this method is that you tend to lose the aim points and aim lines while you move from behind the OB to behind the CB.....I have come up with a twisted...(aka bass ackwards) method to this problem that seems (to me) to have eliminated it.

I don't even bother with standing behind the OB anymore.

I start by standing behind the CB to the pocket (or target)...I make a straight line from the CB to the Pocket..(or Target).....From this I am able to clearly see a line from the CB to the OB and OB to Pocket....It forms a "triangle"....I immediately note how shallow or deep the triangle is which gives me immediate information on (how steep the cut is) and also how the CB is going to react after contact (based on the shape of the triangle).

For some reason this method is making it real easy for me to see the line to the pocket for the OB and (since I am already behind the CB) I just place my back foot on the line from the CB to the OB and take a parallel forward step with my front foot....I basically just drop my cue on the line (From CB to OB) and...saw the line with my cue like I am cutting the table apart...so to speak.

Where/How the 90/90 method fits into all this....When I say I see the line...I actually am seeing "gutters" or "channels" that the balls will travel along...the gutters are just as wide as the balls themselves...Where those gutters intersect becomes the transfer of motion from the CB to the OB.

As I step onto the line (gutter) from the CB to the OB....The foot is placed in the center of the line...but I can view the left or right side (depending on which way the cut is) of the channel (90/90) and then simply imagine the pivot porton...(I really don't actually have to do the pivot part) I can just see where to set the cue square and shoot the shot.

Even without the 90/90 part I can use this bass ackwards method and really just (FEEL) all of the shots and ball paths...the 90/90 is just added feel.

The added part of 90/90 just seems to lock in the alignment that much more....(even though I don't use an actual manual pivot)

I am not sure If I am the only one in the world that starts alignment by looking CB to pocket...and then building information from there...but I wish I would have figured this years ago...It has really (recently) jumped both my shot making AND CB control.

I would like to hear your method for those 45-75 degree angles to see if it fits into what I am currently doing.

I won't ever say that any method does not rely on some sort of feel....methods are simply the tools used to gain feel....but the better the tool and ease of use of the tool allows you to more quickly turn your focus to the feel portion of the shot. :wink:

 

[LAMas]

You should start at the 90/90 point but be in line with center of the CB that way when turn The hip and the tip goes to center you will have perfect alignment with center of the CB. You should never start in line with 90/90.Remember parallel shift does not cut the ball only swivel shift does..
IF YOU WERE TO AIM A CUT SHOT STRAIGHT IN THE POCKET WITH ANY SYSTEM AND ADD PARALLEL ENGLISH THE AIM POINT WOULD NEVER CHANGE.

Ron V

RonV,
Is this a current diagram?


What I see is that the line from the pocket/target enters the OB at it's equator at a point and passing through the OB center ( the Red line) is the OB 90 point.

The same relative point is located on the CB or CB 90 point and a line is
a line from the OB 90 point to the CB 90 point....the Blue Line.

The question is...is the cue aligned with the center of this Blue line....to start? This, without regard for the center of the CB until the pivot....to the Green line?

Thanks.