Aiming Voodoo Video

BRKNRUN said:
Make it STOP!!!....I can't get away with playing with alignment methods!!!! Damn it all!!!!

Thanks for posting this info Ron.....I am glad you posted the bolded part.....I have messed with 90/90 (as well as many many other methods)....and I fully see how this works for the (what I call) shallow angles....

I was about to post how the method (just like all methods) start to fail (ME) when it goes beyond a half ball hit....(this 45-75 degree range seems to be where all methods start to have problems)...I am glad you posted the bolded part above...

What/how is the method applied for (beyond half ball)????

I have been trying to start with a 90/45 and pivot to center..but I am not sure if this is correct...(I would like your feedback on the correct method for beyond half ball hits...especially in the 45-75 degree range)

Your method seems to be a natural progression for a method I came up with...I call it the Bass Ackwards Alignment Method.....

Most people go stand directly behind the OB to find the line to the pocket....The common problem/complaint about this method is that you tend to lose the aim points and aim lines while you move from behind the OB to behind the CB.....I have come up with a twisted...(aka bass ackwards) method to this problem that seems (to me) to have eliminated it.

I don't even bother with standing behind the OB anymore.

I start by standing behind the CB to the pocket (or target)...I make a straight line from the CB to the Pocket..(or Target).....From this I am able to clearly see a line from the CB to the OB and OB to Pocket....It forms a "triangle"....I immediately note how shallow or deep the triangle is which gives me immediate information on (how steep the cut is) and also how the CB is going to react after contact (based on the shape of the triangle).

For some reason this method is making it real easy for me to see the line to the pocket for the OB and (since I am already behind the CB) I just place my back foot on the line from the CB to the OB and take a parallel forward step with my front foot....I basically just drop my cue on the line (From CB to OB) and...saw the line with my cue like I am cutting the table apart...so to speak.

Where/How the 90/90 method fits into all this....When I say I see the line...I actually am seeing "gutters" or "channels" that the balls will travel along...the gutters are just as wide as the balls themselves...Where those gutters intersect becomes the transfer of motion from the CB to the OB.

As I step onto the line (gutter) from the CB to the OB....The foot is placed in the center of the line...but I can view the left or right side (depending on which way the cut is) of the channel (90/90) and then simply imagine the pivot porton...(I really don't actually have to do the pivot part) I can just see where to set the cue square and shoot the shot.

Even without the 90/90 part I can use this bass ackwards method and really just (FEEL) all of the shots and ball paths...the 90/90 is just added feel.

The added part of 90/90 just seems to lock in the alignment that much more....(even though I don't use an actual manual pivot)

I am not sure If I am the only one in the world that starts alignment by looking CB to pocket...and then building information from there...but I wish I would have figured this years ago...It has really (recently) jumped both my shot making AND CB control.

I would like to hear your method for those 45-75 degree angles to see if it fits into what I am currently doing.:)

I won't ever say that any method does not rely on some sort of feel....methods are simply the tools used to gain feel....but the better the tool and ease of use of the tool allows you to more quickly turn your focus to the feel portion of the shot. :wink:
Click to expand...

Ken, what I will tell you is I don't argue with success. So what i am saying is if what you do works for you, keep doing it. There are many systems out there and they don't always work for everybody your system works for you but maybe not for me. I wish you luck playing your way and hope you contiue to play better pool. All I am looking to do is teach people to play better pool fast.

Regards
Ron V
 
LAMas said:
RonV,
Is this a current diagram?
View attachment 165723

What I see is that the line from the pocket/target enters the OB at it's equator at a point and passing through the OB center ( the Red line) is the OB 90 point.

The same relative point is located on the CB or CB 90 point and a line is
a line from the OB 90 point to the CB 90 point....the Blue Line.

The question is...is the cue aligned with the center of this Blue line....to start? This, without regard for the center of the CB until the pivot....to the Green line?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

This is not my diagram so i can't give much feed back on it. all I can say is this is not the way I would have done it.

Ron V
 
RonV said:
This is not my diagram so i can't give much feed back on it. all I can say is this is not the way I would have done it.

Ron V
Click to expand...

I now understand your version of 90/90 is different than the diagram.
The diagram works for me though.

I would like a more complete description of your method...is it what Cleary filmed?

Thanks.
 
RonV said:
Ken, what I will tell you is I don't argue with success. So what i am saying is if what you do works for you, keep doing it. There are many systems out there and they don't always work for everybody your system works for you but maybe not for me. I wish you luck playing your way and hope you contiue to play better pool. All I am looking to do is teach people to play better pool fast.

Regards
Ron V
Click to expand...

I hope you don't think I was trying to argue your method???

I like your 90/90 method...I feel it is the best so far of all of the CTE methods....Why do I always seem to be dismissed as a naysayer????

I was just trying to incorporate what you teach into my own methods.

The jist of my ramblings was to ask for your input on your method for shots that are more angle than half ball hits......specifically 45 -75 degree shots???
 
jsp said:
Hi Ron. From your descriptions, it seems like the pivot point is the bridge hand and it never changes throughout the whole process. So if the bridge is already "lined up with the center of the cb" to begin with, why not simply point the cue at the center of the CB right from start? What is the purpose of pointing to the 90/90 point and pivoting back to center ball if you can point to center ball right at the beginning? Am I misunderstanding something ? Thanks. And Merry Christmas.
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Same question---please.

I use a hip movement when using english. I line up center ball then shift my hip, which moves the tip either left or right. I have good success with this method.

You seem to indicate that when I get down on the shot I should be aligned with center ball and then move to to edge to edge, center to edge or edge to opposite edge whatever the shot calls for and then use hip pivot back to center ball.

I really appreciate your sharing but boy do I hate feeling so stupid.
 
BRKNRUN said:
I hope you don't think I was trying to argue your method???

I like your 90/90 method...I feel it is the best so far of all of the CTE methods....Why do I always seem to be dismissed as a naysayer????

I was just trying to incorporate what you teach into my own methods.

The jist of my ramblings was to ask for your input on your method for shots that are more angle than half ball hits......specifically 45 -75 degree shots???
Click to expand...

A small point of distinction. I don't think that we should call Ron's method a "CTE method". I guess align and pivot is a good term to put both 90/90 and CTE in as far as methods go. I'd call them Align and Pivot aiming systems.
 
JB Cases said:
A small point of distinction. I don't think that we should call Ron's method a "CTE method". I guess align and pivot is a good term to put both 90/90 and CTE in as far as methods go. I'd call them Align and Pivot aiming systems.
Click to expand...


You are correct...A&P is more accurate.

I have even been trying to avoid using the words Aim and System and instead use the words Align(ment) and Method....seems like there would have been less controversy.

BTW..JB....off topic....My wife asked me what I really wanted for Xmas........please check your email...;)
 
BRKNRUN said:
I hope you don't think I was trying to argue your method???

I like your 90/90 method...I feel it is the best so far of all of the CTE methods....Why do I always seem to be dismissed as a naysayer????

I was just trying to incorporate what you teach into my own methods.

The jist of my ramblings was to ask for your input on your method for shots that are more angle than half ball hits......specifically 45 -75 degree shots???
Click to expand...

Ken ,I don't think that at all..I really mean if that works for you and you got it from 90/90/that's great. i am willing to learn new things if they work..

Regards
Ron V
 
RonV said:
Ken ,I don't think that at all..I really mean if that works for you and you got it from 90/90/that's great. i am willing to learn new things if they work..

Regards
Ron V
Click to expand...

I like your attitude a lot Ron! I will call you one day when I am at the pool room if it is OK with you to learn more about 90/90 and such.

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
BRKNRUN said:
I hope you don't think I was trying to argue your method???

I like your 90/90 method...I feel it is the best so far of all of the CTE methods....Why do I always seem to be dismissed as a naysayer????

I was just trying to incorporate what you teach into my own methods.

The jist of my ramblings was to ask for your input on your method for shots that are more angle than half ball hits......specifically 45 -75 degree shots???
Click to expand...

Ken, If you want to cut more, the first one is.
1-90 to center swivel to center a you have it.
2 90 on the left to 90 on the right swivel to center and you have that one and that's all there is. i call this 90/90/ reverse.
I hope this helps.

Ron V
 
Thick cuts (about 1°-45°) are 90/90 which means inside edge of cb and inside edge of ob with a pivot to center.

Thinner cuts (about 46°-80°) are 90/center which means inside edge of cb to center of the object ball with a pivot to center.

Thin cuts (about 81°-90°) 90/outside edge of object ball with a pivot to center.

Is all the above correct Ron?

Are you using inner / center /outer tip on your cue stick to align everything up?

Can u help me understand now the diamond distances you are talking about that need adjustments?
 
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RonV said:
Ken, If you want to cut more, the first one is.
1-90 to center swivel to center a you have it.
2 90 on the left to 90 on the right swivel to center and you have that one and that's all there is. i call this 90/90/ reverse.
I hope this helps.

Ron V
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Yes it does...Thanks:smile:
 
Just thought I'd let people know that I tried this system out tonight and its fantastic. I struggled with a few shots (similar to what champ2107 posted). I also felt this system is best used when the user KNOWS which process to do for each shot (ETE, ETC, ETOE).

I struggled a lot with the hip pivot for shots that shoot to the left (i.e 1st diagram posted by champ2107). Any advice please?

In a similar situation, I struggled shooting shots to the right using CTE/Pro1. I am of the thinking that mixing aiming methods can be end in disaster as too much going on in ones head etc. HELP ME PLEASE :)
 
JB Cases said:
Maybe you should stop being a jerk. Merry Christmas.
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Whoa, I just saw this. Where did this come from?

Did I insult you?

My point was the point I've made more than once before.

I never used 3 Angles. I used (and still use) a system I learned from Hal which I call the quarters. It works. It's great. No pivot required.

However Hal Houle is AWESOME and so is Ron Vitello.
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I like Hal. I haven't met Ron V, but I've heard good things about him. I don't get your point in saying this.

Both of these men have spent a lot of time figuring out alternative ways to line up to the shot. What they have figured out works and for some reason that bothers you. I don't know why and frankly I don't care.
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I don't know what makes you think this


When I find something that I think is awesome I will tell people about it. If you don't think it's so great then PROVE why it's not. It's a simple proposition Mike. You have a pool room, you have a video camera, you have a ton of knowledge, you play better than I do.

So prove it. You clearly are on the negative side of the fence here so instead of jabbing at me why don't you just prove your assertions (whatever they may be).
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I don't know what fence you think I'm on the negative side of...

And I'm not jabbing at you. I'm making the commonality point I've made before. As you know I think there's something for you about focusing on the ball-ball relationship that is helpful for you. That's what I think is worth investigating.
 
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