What is the name of the governing body here in the US . Do they have a website?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
US Mens Player Association
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BC, there is none. No Governor. No pro player association representing all pro players. I think Johnny Archer was trying to get something off the ground but I think it had a limited number of players involved.
Players Association
Thanks Joey
I remember in the late 70s or early 80s I think they tried to form one with Allen Hopkins as leader, If I am not mistaken a few of the top players thought they deserved it more so they wouldn't join and it all went in the toilet.
I wonder if they wish they could have a redo on that one?
Thanks Joey
I remember in the late 70s or early 80s I think they tried to form one with Allen Hopkins as leader, If I am not mistaken a few of the top players thought they deserved it more so they wouldn't join and it all went in the toilet.
I wonder if they wish they could have a redo on that one?
A regional thing works best because of conveniences. Regional leaders know people in the area, they know who is capable and who is not capable. The national level identity is more geared for people who don't know anything about pool. The national level organizer tries to get new people involved or help direct them to regional people.
The national level is all about getting exposure and new people.
Regional level is all about keeping people around and informed.
Sigel seems like a good choice because he had a lot of experience with a previous incident 5 or so years back. Mike Sigel to be specific.
From the way I seen him handle himself he likes dealing with new faces more than tired old ones.
The national level is all about getting exposure and new people.
Regional level is all about keeping people around and informed.
Sigel seems like a good choice because he had a lot of experience with a previous incident 5 or so years back. Mike Sigel to be specific.
From the way I seen him handle himself he likes dealing with new faces more than tired old ones.
There is a better chance of the players following the Easter Bunny dressed up as the cop from the Village People than following Mike Sigel.
Which other player has a resume as extensive as Sigel or has as much national recognition? (It is a gambit.) Please contribute to the discussion rather than highlight well-known points.
A contribution is something like: "I think this player is great because ___." Or I don't think that player is great because _____ and that has the following implications _____. I don't like your idea because ____ I think it has good points like ______ but the downsides are ______.
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Outside of wrangling snake oil salesmen to donk off a few million swindled from old ladies and piss off everyone in the pool world I don't really see what Mr. Sigel's qualifications to lead any type of organization are.
If you want to base it on national recognition Earl would be better suited because more people know who he is. To take it farther Jeanette gives them both the 2 ball in recognition.
When someone makes it worth players coming together then they will. History says they will screw it up shortly after but things can always change if an organization makes enough sense.
Edit: You edited your post when I was writing my response. To your edit I simply say that the ability to run out has absolutely nothing to do with leading an organization. I'm pretty sure Pete Rozelle couldn't make a ball but he managed to grow the NFL pretty well.
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mlalum
Banned
Your arguments are mostly in direct contradiction of the saying, "There are no bad ideas.'' You're so off the mark it's hard to take them seriously.
If I am not mistaken Mike Sigel was the leader of the group who did not want Allen Hopkins to lead 30 years ago , therefore no one ended up leading and they have had 30 years of non growth.
Doesn't matter to me who is or was the leader , although in financial matters I think Allen Hopkins has been far more successful.
The last I heard Archer was speaking on behalf of some type of players organisation before the US Open , I'm sorry if that didn't work out either.
At the end of the day it's the same as it has been since the 1870s, the equipment sellers and the snake oil guys make all the money and the players get scraps if they are lucky.
They could start their own tour and put on 12 tournaments a year and make all the money themselves I doubt most of them would be able to pay their part of the startup cost.
I wish I knew Johnny Archer I would like to ask him a couple of questions and see what his response would be.
In the years I've been involved in pool, there have been at least eight to ten men's associations come and go. Sad but true.
I agree that managing a sport and playing a sport well are not related activities. You did cite other people who you believe have more recognition and successfully understood I based my qualification on recognition. You have argued against my selection for a leader of a player association.
Did you have an idea of your own? Something in the direction of a players association, a player association mission, or something about the players and the sport.
A top player was asking questions about TAR matches and hinting around about what it took and how much money was to be made. I started running down the expenses from travel, gear, help, software and bandwidth to the organizational challenges of dealing with hotels and room owners and the always present issue of customer service and support on a PPV.
His eyes kind of glazed over after the first thirty seconds then he asked where we were going to eat.
The devil is in the details. Wanting to just show up, play and leave won't get it done. Corey Deuel got a big dose of it first hand when he ran his event. He really impressed me with his level of play while running that event. You notice he hasn't done one since.
Unless you have done it or been on the inside it really is hard to understand all the little things it takes to make an event go. Little things like getting tables and lights in place. What...you mean the hotel wants to charge $400 to put up a light and $400 to take it down? We have 16 tables. Little things like that pop up ALL THE TIME. Then there is the money. Won't get into that.
Allen Hopkins works for about half the year to do his event. Mark Griffin and his staff started working on the 2011 Nationals and US Open 10 Ball and US Open One Pocket about a month after the 2010 event ended. If you call Barry Berhman today he can probably tell you exactly how many days until the 2011 US Open 9 Ball Championships begins.
It is an easy path on paper for the players to control their own destiny. Create and find funding for a tour they own. While this sounds good in theory I think it is much easier to swallow showing up, doing what you have worked your whole life to do and going on about your business. If they choose the second option then they are going to have deal with the pitfalls of that strategy.
An eloquent explanation of why some tournament promoters finally give up. A helluva lot of work with little (if any) reward at the end. I can remember working months putting together a major event and drawing a good field of players and large audiences every night. When a few of the players realized that I might be making some money on this venture, that appeared to disturb them. Yes, I was about to make a 15K score and I only worked for six months to do it. But that bothered some people.
Meanwhile, I've literally sold ONE house and made more money than I did on all the pool tournaments I've promoted in my life!
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I agree completely, I just wonder if enough of them are ready to step up to the plate if they had a chance ?
Not a Trudeau deal, something they own and operate, maybe they are ok with things the way they are . That was one of the things I would ask Johnny Archer, are they ready or does it involve too much work to make the future better than the past.
There just isnt enough money now to do traditional pro tournaments.
As for the players being ready to create a tour or well organized group I have my opinion but its their business and I wish them the best at what they try to do.
I have lots of ideas. With some other people we have plans and money to try something new. Far from a player organization but it will be working in concert with players and the ones who are involved will have a stake in things. No one will get rich but it will be real and I believe it will work and most important will become a starting point for things in the future.
I believe the bigest single fault in mens pool is people over reaching and over promising. The bottom line is any endeavor must make sense for all involved or it is doomed to fail.
The idea of small matches sound great, like boxing but for pool and unregulated, that is even better for the people putting the money up.
There has to be something worthwhile for the players and the fans aside from small set matches. The tournament scheme just doesn't seem to be implemented well, which makes the small match production get perceived as a higher quality and higher frequency occasion.
My guess is the players are old enough and experienced enough to understand who they are dealing with and what to expect and how to protect themselves(, maybe).
This has been a thoroughly interesting thread.
Since they went through big money, are going through big hype, maybe the next thing they will experience is the big lesson from teaching one from all their decades of being in the action.
There has to be something worthwhile for the players and the fans aside from small set matches. The tournament scheme just doesn't seem to be implemented well, which makes the small match production get perceived as a higher quality and higher frequency occasion.
My guess is the players are old enough and experienced enough to understand who they are dealing with and what to expect and how to protect themselves(, maybe).
This has been a thoroughly interesting thread.
Since they went through big money, are going through big hype, maybe the next thing they will experience is the big lesson from teaching one from all their decades of being in the action.