Center to where...Pro what..

[JB Cases]

Pro's still miss too and sometimes it might be a simple shot, and its not always because they were trying to do something with whitey but because they were not focused and concentrating. For me the biggest problem is my focus and loss of it at times.

Efren has said that focus is the number one piece of advice he can give to amateurs.

After five hours of brutal stroke training I agree. CTE is fantastic for me. Combined with a great stroke and focus it's downright deadly for my opponent.

And right now, for me, it's a real tough mental effort to truly focus on my stroke and get rid of my silly stroke.

 

[justadub]

I firmly stand behind the notion that many of you are making this much more difficult than it needs to be. You all have pool-playing supercomputers "up there" between the ears, in the form of the subconscious mind. Learn how to use it, and stop over-thinking / end-running your ability.

-Sean

I think there is something to this. I believe many of us "over-think" many things, and make them more complicated than they need to be.

However, I don't see any problem with seeing if a system such as this one works for any given individual. We all learn in different ways, and visualize things in different ways, so this material could very well be the thing that clicks for some, and still seems baffling to others. As an example, for most of my school-years, I could not grasp algebra the way it was taught. I took it a few different times, with different teachers, and struggled mightily. Then I took it again as a college course, with a professor that was flexible in the way he taught his material, and it finally registered with me. These aiming systems could be much the same for some folks. I hope to see if it applies to me sometime soon, when I can put aside the $$$ to grab this DVD myself.

It would be better for all concerned if folks could simply approach these discussions with the thought that not everything applies to everyone, and to not make blanket statements like "this will work for everyone" or "this is all bull$hit". Neither statement is true.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Efren has said that focus is the number one piece of advice he can give to amateurs.

After five hours of brutal stroke training I agree. CTE is fantastic for me. Combined with a great stroke and focus it's downright deadly for my opponent.

And right now, for me, it's a real tough mental effort to truly focus on my stroke and get rid of my silly stroke.

I really do believe to make yourself a very solid player you need mechanics that work for you, alignment, aiming system/method (not guessing), table time, and focus. I consider a point on the ball or the ghost ball as an aiming method, we all have one whether we realize it or not unless we just have hit millions of balls and its just muscle memory I suppose. If you get all these things working together in concert then you play well, atleast I do.

 

[JB Cases]

I did not see a preview anywhere online for the DVD being spoke of but when I searched yours popped up, John.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnLuFMvpvR4

Yeah I put Stan's info in the description. I intend to make some new videos to replace this one. Especially once I have my new stroke ingrained into my game. A proper stroke combined with CTE as I know it now it the nuts per my experience this week.

Some of the shots I miss on this video with my lousy stroke are now dead nuts hangers for me. Only my arm and shoulder hurts like hell from several hours of using muscles that I wasn't before.

And I will do a video review of Stan's video. I can't wait to watch it.

 

[Mowem down]

Is it your implication that the people who said that the information was clear to them and that they are now using the system successfully are lying?

I don't really understand why you would compliment Cleary for his "honesty" if you didn't think that people who have the opposite experience were being dishonest.

" Are you on drugs "....

 

[JB Cases]

" Are you on drugs "....

No but you didn't tip your hat to the people who said that they had the opposite experience for their "honesty".

Seems a bit strange to me.

 

[mrsmith1976]

It's a battle I fight every day. I agree.

Dave

Mike,

Do you honestly think that most of the people on this forum who are willing to to try a CTE style aiming system can't hit the cue ball in a straight line? Or those willing to spend $40 on a DVD jsut about aiming?

I bet extra large and extra crispy that 99% of the active participants on this forum are above average players already. Average would be an APA 4 to use as a frame of reference.

I think it's equally unfair to make the assumption that even a small percentage of the people on this forum can't hit the ball in a straight line.

For that matter everyone can hit the ball in a straight line

I think that what you mean is that people should learn to hit in a straight line to a specific target. Which would be aiming. Because even my wife who wouldn't even be classified an APA 2 makes the cue ball travel in a straight line even as she misses the object ball completely.

I am pretty sure that I am on fairly solid ground when I say that 99.5% of the people in these aiming discussions have done the "hit the ball straight through the spots" drill plenty of times in their lives.

I see first hand how these threads get so long....
Ok..my point is simply this. If you think that you are hitting the ball in the center and maybe just maybe you are not, then I would suggest you correct that first..I guess that I am the only player on Earth that realized that the center of the ball wasn't where I thought it was, or that I wasn't sending the cueball down the line that I thought I was sending it, or that I was putting uninteded sidespin on the ball due to bad mechanics. Your suggestion are that everyone that buys the CTE DVD does not have those problems.

If I have offended anyone who purchased the DVD by suggesting that you check your fundamentals first, I apologize.

And for the 1,000th time John...LOVE THE CASE:grin:

 

[justadub]

I see first hand how these threads get so long....
Ok..my point is simply this. If you think that you are hitting the ball in the center and maybe just maybe you are not, then I would suggest you correct that first..I guess that I am the only player on Earth that realized that the center of the ball wasn't where I thought it was, or that I wasn't sending the cueball down the line that I thought I was sending it, or that I was putting uninteded sidespin on the ball due to bad mechanics. Your suggestion are that everyone that buys the CTE DVD does not have those problems.

If I have offended anyone who purchased the DVD by suggesting that you check your fundamentals first, I apologize.

And for the 1,000th time John...LOVE THE CASE:grin:

It has been said in every CTE thread I've read through that this (or any other) system isn't going to work properly if you don't have a good, repeatable stroke. I think by this time it's probably thought to be a given.

Which is partially why I've resisted grabbing this DVD right away. (That, and being a little tighter than I'd like right after the holidays ) My stroke needs PLENTY of work! :grin:

 

[cleary]

Im not looking for an argument, just a clearer explanation of my two unclear points. If I could get that from JB, spiderweb or stan, then I'll be very happy.

Mostly, I just want to know how I can see both the CTE line and edge of cueball to A, B, or C at the same time. To me, when I get down on CTE, when I look at the edge of the cueball, I don't know how I could switch from A to B to C without leaving the CTE line. To me, the Edge to A/B/C line seems more important than the CTE line. Pleases correct me if Im wrong, I just want to understand, not argue.

 

[sfleinen]

I think there is something to this. I believe many of us "over-think" many things, and make them more complicated than they need to be.

However, I don't see any problem with seeing if a system such as this one works for any given individual. We all learn in different ways, and visualize things in different ways, so this material could very well be the thing that clicks for some, and still seems baffling to others. As an example, for most of my school-years, I could not grasp algebra the way it was taught. I took it a few different times, with different teachers, and struggled mightily. Then I took it again as a college course, with a professor that was flexible in the way he taught his material, and it finally registered with me. These aiming systems could be much the same for some folks. I hope to see if it applies to me sometime soon, when I can put aside the $$$ to grab this DVD myself.

It would be better for all concerned if folks could simply approach these discussions with the thought that not everything applies to everyone, and to not make blanket statements like "this will work for everyone" or "this is all bull$hit". Neither statement is true.

That's actually what I was trying to get at with the "you all seem to think 'aiming system so-and-so' is the holy grail to pool..." comment. Folks here are placing entirely too much emphasis on the notion that "learning this or that aiming system" will make them go up "x" number of balls in ability. And sadly, many of the proprietors of these same aiming systems are feeding this.

An aiming system is a means to an end. It's a point-purpose tool used to address one very specific problem. Although JB's point that the main point in "pocket billiards" is that first word -- pocketing the ball -- the bigger picture of the things used to pocket that ball encompass a lot more than what you point your cue at. Most importantly (far beyond any aiming system) is, "can you accurately deliver that cue?" This includes all those things like straight stroke, accurately finding the center of the cue ball and accurately cueing up to it, accurately delivering the cue through the ball, etc. I've seen far too often where someone missed a shot, and then said, "oops, I guessed I aimed wrong!" When, in fact, I was standing right behind him/her, watched his/her cue delivery, and what he/she was aiming at, was not the point where the cue hit. (I'm not talking about last-second pivots on pivot-aiming players, either -- I'm talking about obvious hitches / crooks in the stroke that, inadvertently to the shooter, threw the cue off line.) I see this in YouTube videos *a lot*, by the way, and not just those "watch me run a Cosmo rack of 9-ball on a barbox" chest-thumping videos, either. We're all vulnerable to the "not delivering the cue where we think we are" problem, and then blaming it on "I aimed wrong." No, bright eyes, you aimed correctly, you just delivered wrong!

The point of all this?
1. Let's not get zombie-eyed locked on "aiming systems" as if it's the pool panacea -- like you'll suddenly go up an entire category of player within a couple of days just from an "aiming system."
2. Let's not fall victim to the predatory marketing on this notion, either. Take those "this is the future of pool..." "those that choose not to integrate this aiming system will fall victim to those that do" predacious marketing claims with a grain of salt. View the aiming system for what it is -- a point-purpose tool to address a specific problem. You don't buy that battery-operated super wrench on TV to replace every single tool in your toolbox, right? Neither should you view any aiming system in this way.

That's it in a nutshell.
-Sean

 

[mrsmith1976]

It has been said in every CTE thread I've read through that this (or any other) system isn't going to work properly if you don't have a good, repeatable stroke. I think by this time it's probably thought to be a given.

Which is partially why I've resisted grabbing this DVD right away. (That, and being a little tighter than I'd like right after the holidays ) My stroke needs PLENTY of work! :grin:

sorry for beating a dead horse. Good luck with your stroke.

 

[justadub]

sorry for beating a dead horse. Good luck with your stroke.

Thanks! I certainly need it! :grin::grin::grin:

(It's a fun journey trying to get there, isn't it?)

 

[Celtic]

Here's my aiming system:

1. I'm worried about position because I am confident that I will pocket the ball.

Back when I actually played enough pool to shoot well this is how it was for me. I basically played shape, I did not conciously think about aiming at all, all I thought about was shooting the shot to make the cueball do something and go somewhere and the actual pot was a given. Purely subconcious aiming.

Now with shooting 5 games or less per a week for league I tend to use the aiming system of "make the cueball hit the object ball in the correct spot to make the object ball go into the pocket", and the more and more I shoot the less and less I have to think about the actual aim. Come late season before the playoffs I will be practicing alot of pool and if I am not to the point of "NOT" thinking about aiming the actual pots I am in trouble.

The pro's almost always shoot without thinking about the actual pot, that is a given ingrained into their subconcious, they are only thinking about the shape if I had to bet, and watching alot of pro's you can tell this is true if you have played at that level.

 

[peteypooldude]

Pocketing balls is only ONE aspect of the game.
But it is a dam necessary one . I use what I will call Spideys method
of CTE, That being a half ball off set. After viewing Stans DVD I
came to realize that it may be difficult for some to grasp. Stans DVD
is more of a study guide. There is so much information on it that you will have to pause the DVD and go to the table or take notes. He gives you a table grid to describe where each ball sits exactly. I think the ones having problems with it are watching the DVD as a whole instead of chapters.
He said from the beginning that the people already using it would be way ahead of the pack trying to perfect it. Take the DVD in chapters and work on specific shots until you get it. Thats what the table grid is for and similar to how I came to be comfortable using it.

 

[3kushn]

Originally Posted by PocketPoint View Post
I thought maybe the hardest part is playing position, not pocketing the ball.

Really? See how successful you are when you get perfect position after missing the shot.

Here is how the game is played, make the shot, get another shot, repeat until all the balls are gone.

If you do it in this order then you won't be breaking much, miss the shot, get perfect position for the next ball that you would have been shooting had you made the previous shot.

Pocketing the ball IS the most important task in POCKET BILLIARDS. It means you get to stay at the table and keep shooting.

This isn't common sense?

That's exactly why I'm embarrassed to play pool. I've got great CB control but lousy OB control.

 

[sfleinen]

Back when I actually played enough pool to shoot well this is how it was for me. I basically played shape, I did not conciously think about aiming at all, all I thought about was shooting the shot to make the cueball do something and go somewhere and the actual pot was a given. Purely subconcious aiming.

Now with shooting 5 games or less per a week for league I tend to use the aiming system of "make the cueball hit the object ball in the correct spot to make the object ball go into the pocket", and the more and more I shoot the less and less I have to think about the actual aim. Come late season before the playoffs I will be practicing alot of pool and if I am not to the point of "NOT" thinking about aiming the actual pots I am in trouble.

The pro's almost always shoot without thinking about the actual pot, that is a given ingrained into their subconcious, they are only thinking about the shape if I had to bet, and watching alot of pro's you can tell this is true if you have played at that level.

Celtic:

You NAILED it! Good post. Although I'm not at the pro level due to "other things in life" commitments that demand more of my time, I play at the Open level, and this is exactly how I aim... I don't. At least consciously. I'm not thinking angles, or pivots, or edges of the ball, or anything like that. I just get behind the shot, see the "back of ball" (the back-of-ball aiming method as used in snooker), eclipse it by the amount my subconscious tells me, a few practice strokes to be sure my delivery arm mechanics are correct, and then FIRE. I trust my subconscious, and especially in stressful situations, it's gotten me out of a lot of jams -- those that my conscious mind surely would've f*cked up by over-analysis.

I mentioned it earlier, but I have a feeling this thread is going to get a lot of traffic, so I'll post it again, in case folks missed it:

"Leveraging your subconscious (read: don't let your conscious get in the way!)"
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=216564

By all means, "try" aiming methods, but don't get wrapped-up in them. The search for an external "magic pool playing panacea" is a foolhardy effort. Search within yourself, and you'll find it.

-Sean

 

[8pack]

Im not looking for an argument, just a clearer explanation of my two unclear points. If I could get that from JB, spiderweb or stan, then I'll be very happy.

Mostly, I just want to know how I can see both the CTE line and edge of cueball to A, B, or C at the same time. To me, when I get down on CTE, when I look at the edge of the cueball, I don't know how I could switch from A to B to C without leaving the CTE line. To me, the Edge to A/B/C line seems more important than the CTE line. Pleases correct me if Im wrong, I just want to understand, not argue.

This is where i have a problem also.Lets say you have a thin cut shot to the right.Lets leave the balls there and now we want to bank the ball to the other side of the table which will require a thinner cut.
You cannot sight true cte and 2 different spots on the object ball if the balls are left in the the same place.Something has to change and if something changes on the ob then center will change on the cb.
Also distance you stand from the cb may play a role in how you see both edges behind the cb.

I am not trying to be negative just explaining the problem i have going about it like its explained.

 

[shankster8]

This is where i have problem also.Lets say you have a thin cut shot to the right.Lets leave the balls there and now we want to bank the ball to the other side of the table which will require a thinner cut.
You cannot sight true cte and 2 different spots on the object ball if the balls are left in the the same place.Something has to change and if something changes on the ob then center will change on the cb.
Also distance you stand from the cb may play a role in how you see both edges behind the cb.

I am not trying to be negative just explaining the problem i have going about it like its explained.

I share your and Cleary's confusion.

 

[poolplaya]

Im sure its just me but he might as well been speaking in martian. I would gladly return that Dvd for my money...And how can anybody say publicly they dont beleave the pros aim any certain way, and that when their info gets out the pros are going to " hone their skills even more and become more consistent" I dont think even I could say somthing so arrogant.

WTF!!!!!!!!!! Can you really not spell believe????? How can anyone ever take any opinion of yours seriously????? People on here are just awesome!!!!!

 

[elvicash]

Compared to many here, I know little about pool.

The claims have been that CTE causes you to make every shot. So you'll undoubtedly start winning major tournaments, unless another CTE beats you.

So you do not like the system it seems but others do like it. If you have something better system or whatever just put it out there but why you got to hate on something. Some of us are trying to learn something to improve our game. There can be only one winner at a major tournament some of those will be won by Stevie Moore and he uses Pro 1/CTE. He also has experience, knowledge, heart, ability to focus for long periods of time and come with the shot under pressure.

So let me ask you a quesiton PocketPoint are you a player, if so how good do you play. Are you maxed out playing at 100% with no chance of improvement if so good for you if not try to learn something if not this then something else, put yourself to the test and see how it comes out. Thats all anybody here is doing. Stan is not going to get rich selling these DVD's he is trying to share some knowledge raise the level of play.

As to winnijng a major event I think someone/anyone will win one using CTE before you win one yourself PocketPoint and I do not know who you are, but of course that is the beauty of the internet forum so just keep hating on something you don't understand.