Pro One
- Thread starter chas6
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I was going to get one but i didnt want to get to good. Kills my action. lol!!:grin:
What would you say if I told you that a prominent coach who has multiple world and national champions in his resume' thinks completely the opposite?
What would you say if I told you that this coach advocates a short bridge distance for follow shots and long bridge distance for draw shots with a particular stroke for each of those? And that the coach demands a different grip on the cue for follow and draw?
This prescription does not take into account the use of spin. Nothing was said about the application of spin. So when I started to do what he told me I of course started with no spin just to get the stroke techniques down (and I am not there yet). Then, me being me, I wanted to see what happens when I spin the ball. And of course I used BHE.
The result is that, for myself, I found that I can use BHE just as I always have with just a slight adjustment in speed. In fact the result of using a good stroke is that you generate more power with less effort so at the beginning I was moving the cue ball too much.
So I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this point. When I have time I will do a third video on BHE and use your parameters to see what happens. I think having the camera set up over head will help to see what's actually happening.
As to the content and purpose of the thread I definitely want to say again that my advice to everyone is to try very hard to follow Stan's advice as he lays it out on the video. Any one can adjust their game accordingly later but as my diving coach used to say, if it feels wrong then it's probably right. What he meant was that I should just do it his way and ignore my untrained instincts. And luckily for me I did or I probably would have ended up in the hospital.
If I were a newbie to CTE and really wanted to learn then I wouldn't worry about spin right now. Focus on making it happen with center ball and I predict that the application of spin will take care of itself.
Also FWIW you can run out often using only center ball, follow and draw combined with the right speed. I once won a couple sets from someone who didn't believe I could beat him without using any side spin whatsoever.
I didnt want to get into this until i get my copy but i cant help myself lol
On the dvd is he using dead center of the cue ball as the alignment and inside of the cue tip to find center cue ball with a full tip off set left or right and then a pivot to center cue ball? is he also using just the edges of the object ball as aim points?
You say and i quote "Then, without moving, look left (or right) and from the cte line/spot, see if the CB edge is aligned. With one of those points. If not, then resight the cte line cuz you might have been a lil off in your initial attempt." can you get a little more detailed on that point you said?
thanks in advance Eric if you decide to answer
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Glad to see in the Video that Stan used BHE with the Pro1. As of now I use Ghost-Ball w/BHE. I look forward to learning more. I have to say I am confused about when to align to body to see "Center of Cue Ball to edge of object ball & edge of Cue ball to A,B,C and confused about how they choose alignment on bank shots.
Not picking on you, Eric, just want to point something out. IMO, many of the posts discussing CTE are meaningless because they fail to define the initial eye position relative to the cue. As I've attempted to point out in numerous "Perfect Aim" threads (which Geno continues to avoid), it makes no sense to say move your eyes one way or the other unless you first specify the initial location of the eyes.
In this case, Eric says "First you find the cte line. Then, without moving, look left (or right) and from the cte line/spot, see if the CB edge is aligned. With one of those points." This instruction can only have meaning if one's eyes are initially centered over the CTEL (which is to say - eyes centered over the cue). If you have your dominant eye over the CTEL (or non dominant eye), obviously the CB edge isn't going to align with aiming point A or C.
As explained in Kranicki's book, there are only two eye positions which give a true aiming picture: 1) with the cue centered between your eyes; or, 2) with the cue under an eye. All other eye positions require compensation (like sighting down one or the other side of the tip, for example), which are not a part of this aiming system.
I think it would help everyone if Stan affirms this, if it is so. (Center the cue between your eyes, or get nowhere with CTE, I believe.) And, as I've said many times previously, I believe "Perfect Aim" is simply a requirement to center the cue between the eyes; but Geno continues to refuse to admit or deny this.
This is my 2 cents. I think Stan has put out a quality dvd with good information. I have been shooting pool for a long time. I started shooting at age 13 and shot about 4 hours aday. Needless to say I got pretty good after shooting over the course of 8 years. Then I went to the military for five years and stayed deployed for 3 years of that time. I just started shooting pool again 3 months ago and it was coming back very slow lol. I bought stans dvd and took it to the table it does work it takes practice just like anything else in life you have to work for it. You have to have a constant way to line for everyshot. It gives you that. You have to be in line for everyshot. I think this is the most helpful thing it teaches bc thats what it does is it puts you in a straight sight alignment for every shot. Pool is memory anyway you look at it, but I believe if your going to practice this is a good system to learn as it incorperates, coming to the table the same way everytime, lining your shots up the same way everytime. The average pool player does not line up the same way everyday or from shot to shot in some cases which kills his/her consistancy from day to day. I think the system is pretty simple as JoeyA said start with short shots like Stans shows in the beginning of the dvd. You have to learn the basic principles before you can tackle the harder shots. I see people saying theres not enough info. I have no problem with this system with just using the info on the dvd You have to take it to the table and think about what you are doing. Ok well thats my 2 cents not trying to rant really liked the dvd and wanted to do my first post ttyl.
I have actually started blogging about my training, I suppose with CTE on here. I can tell you that for me learning this is like when I first started playing the game. When I first started playing I (and still do) pay attention to everything on the table. This is how I have come up with quite a few crazy shots.
When you start using CTE you must do the same thing. You must pay attention to the set-up, the lines, the pivot, your pause, your stroke, your follow through and your finish. You must be able to understand that just because you got it right (pocketed the ball) doesn't mean you got it right because you might of done a number of things wrong.
When you start using CTE you must do the same thing. You must pay attention to the set-up, the lines, the pivot, your pause, your stroke, your follow through and your finish. You must be able to understand that just because you got it right (pocketed the ball) doesn't mean you got it right because you might of done a number of things wrong.
I have only seen the Pro One video once, but my impression is that you are correct; any eye co-dominance or shifting dominance would torpedo the claimed effectiveness. In fact, any minor head rotation probably would.
The method is sufficiently described so that it can be reverse-engineered to determine where a monocular player would best place his eye, but since the reference lines diverge, there will not be an exact solution. In fact, there is not likely to be an acceptable one.
I echo this impression. Chapter 26 offers a solution to one of Dave's "challenge shot" sets. However, an explanation as to how this solution would ever be arrived at is not provided.
As with prior descriptions of the method, there seems to be no consideration of the target pocket location, which I think many of us would consider a requirement for any logical aiming system.
pivots
love the disc and am starting to absorb more every day,BUT, i need a lil help here: 1)what is purpose of pivot? not explained very well,at least to me 2) it seems that cuts to one's right would all be rt. pivots and vice-versa but an email from Stan says not so. maybe i'm spatially challenged but some of the info on disc is a little hard to figure. any input would be cool thanx
love the disc and am starting to absorb more every day,BUT, i need a lil help here: 1)what is purpose of pivot? not explained very well,at least to me 2) it seems that cuts to one's right would all be rt. pivots and vice-versa but an email from Stan says not so. maybe i'm spatially challenged but some of the info on disc is a little hard to figure. any input would be cool thanx
Shankster,
I appreciate your perspective. I really do but I think people like Geno & Stan really do understand aiming better than people like Kranicki. With all due respect to Kranicki, I haven't heard a whole lot about him as far as the pool world is concerned. Sure, there is something to be learned from Mr. Kranicki but it's my belief that you can learn a heck of a lot more from someone who has walked the walk and not just talked the talk.
Yesterday evening, I went out late to the pool room after getting a text message that some road players had come back to town (I missed them Friday night). It seems that they like to visit my pool room after 9:00 PM. Anyway, I arrived and they didn't. I stayed around, tired as I was after a day of removing multiple walls of tile at my son's house.
I decided to hit a few balls just to stay in stroke before I headed home and was making an effort to make some medium difficult shots; shots that I can make most any time, but I was having trouble with these shots. I wasn't using CTE and my old instinctive aiming wasn't getting the balls in the hole. After about 30 minutes of mixed results, I decided to put some of Geno's Perfect Aim to work and what do you know, I started making all of those medium difficult shots and more.
It is my belief that we don't all see things the same regardless of any eye problems that we might have or not have. It would be easy enough to blame my inability to make these medium difficult shots on being tired but that wasn't it at all. The problem was that my eyes weren't in the correct position and by using Perfect Aim, I changed a miserable short practice session into a very positive experience.
I've learned a lot over the years from people from all skill levels and have been admonished for keeping an open mind to anything that might improve my level of play. Once upon a time, I even tried watching a candle in the dark for extended periods of time to develop my ability to concentrate. It's a long story and this one is too but I'll leave you with this. Some people need "systems", "techniques" or "tools" to correct frequent or infrequent aberrations in aiming and THEY WORK, maybe not for you, maybe not for the next guy, maybe not now, but maybe later. If you think that Geno or Pro One/CTE or 90/90 is a mirage or a snake oil salesman selling their latest placebo for aiming, you are missing the boat.
When I get tired, I can tell immediately because something happens to my eyes and face. It is kind of hard to describe and it might not be the same for everyone but my face just gets tired first and then I start to miss balls that I seldom ever miss and normally it just gets worse from there.
The next time I get tired and start missing balls, I'm going to try a little Perfect Aim to see if it can extend my ability to play well for a longer period of time.
If people like Ron, Geno and Stan are able to play at a high level, they see what they see and just maybe (and it's no stretch for me) their perspective can be demonstrated, narrated or videoed for the benefit of those who see things similarly.
All of the naysayers in the world can say what they want (and I'm not saying you're one of those either) they're just denying that these people utilize certain visualizations and physical movements to enhance their play and that their techniques and systems can positively impact some of the people who play pool.
It's not snake oil medicine, it's not a placebo, it's not magic, it's not lala land, it's not smoke and mirrors, it's not a bunch of bull, it's not silly, it's not stupid, it's not the only way; it's just another way and there are many ways, none of which, are the only way to get to a better level of play and finally, none of them are the best way for everyone.
i dont have the dvd but will tell u how by the way i shoot cte. I will give you an example, a 70 degree cut to the corner pocket, which the ob has to be cut to the right to made, because of the angle you can only make the ball with a left pivot even though it has to be cut to the right. I have to go now or i would have gone into more detail with you.
It is very important to master the mechanical pivots before moving on!!!!
Get your eyes in the correct place and the cue will follow. FOCUS on your eyes not where the cue is.
Heard an awesome concept today when listening to a neurosurgeon who studies creativity through the cataloging of brain activity using FMRI scans.
"Science needs to catch up to art"
When I heard that I immediately thought of CTE and the arguments about it. CTE is a system but it's also art. It's art because the user has to use the aiming framework to create new paths on the fly that they have never tried before.
I can play such beautiful mind-bending patterns now when I shoot that it's frankly impossible for me to remember them all. I see cue ball and object paths that were totally closed to me prior to learning how to do CTE. So much guess work is now gone and I can hit the shots with total confidence. It's so cool to be able to thread the needle over and over and over again just because you can focus on where your cue ball is going and not be concerned even the tinest bit that you are aimed right.
Before I used to miss shots because I was very afraid of them, afraid that I wasn't aimed right and I would dog shots due to that fear. I used to hit other balls that were NEAR to the path of the object ball just because I wasn't SURE if the object ball would pass or not.
Now I play those shots easily and don't worry one bit if the OB will pass or not. Once I know that the path is clear I use CTE to line it up and the object ball goes into the hole so nice and clean that my opponent applauds the shot.
So yeah, to me regarding CTE science needs to catch up to art. I still don't really know WHY or HOW CTE works such that I could write a technical description replete with detailed instructions. I imagine that SOMEDAY some scientist who also happens to be a billiards nut and who ISN'T biased or prejudiced will take on CTE and figure out the science behind it.
Until then players like me with no background in science will just be experiencing the joy of using CTE to play better pool.
"Science needs to catch up to art"
When I heard that I immediately thought of CTE and the arguments about it. CTE is a system but it's also art. It's art because the user has to use the aiming framework to create new paths on the fly that they have never tried before.
I can play such beautiful mind-bending patterns now when I shoot that it's frankly impossible for me to remember them all. I see cue ball and object paths that were totally closed to me prior to learning how to do CTE. So much guess work is now gone and I can hit the shots with total confidence. It's so cool to be able to thread the needle over and over and over again just because you can focus on where your cue ball is going and not be concerned even the tinest bit that you are aimed right.
Before I used to miss shots because I was very afraid of them, afraid that I wasn't aimed right and I would dog shots due to that fear. I used to hit other balls that were NEAR to the path of the object ball just because I wasn't SURE if the object ball would pass or not.
Now I play those shots easily and don't worry one bit if the OB will pass or not. Once I know that the path is clear I use CTE to line it up and the object ball goes into the hole so nice and clean that my opponent applauds the shot.
So yeah, to me regarding CTE science needs to catch up to art. I still don't really know WHY or HOW CTE works such that I could write a technical description replete with detailed instructions. I imagine that SOMEDAY some scientist who also happens to be a billiards nut and who ISN'T biased or prejudiced will take on CTE and figure out the science behind it.
Until then players like me with no background in science will just be experiencing the joy of using CTE to play better pool.
Science doesn't need to catch up to anything.
Huh? So everything that exists and happens is already cataloged and described?
Remember it wasn't me who said that science needs to catch up to art. But as far as that goes without art there is no science. Everything that is created is created first in the mind. It has to be imagined first in order for man to make it. Science cannot yet map creativity. Science cannot yet explain all phenomena.
Or do you contend that science has already unlocked all the universe's mysteries?
Didn't mean to step on your science toes........ after all it was a scientist that said science needs to catch up to art. - Charles Limb, TED Talks. Look it up.