Pro One

[LAMas]

Ok I'm watching this for the second time cause it went right over my head the first time. And here is why: Stan has just described in chapter 3 how to visualize center to edge and edge to center [target b]. Cool got that. Then he says Now after adjusting my stance a little I now see the edge of the cue ball aimed at the right quarter of the object ball. We will call that aiming point c. At that point he loses me because he doesn't explain why he just adjusted his stance and why he has to have the other aiming point. And without this understanding I can't fathom what Stevie or Landon is saying when he explains a shot being point a b or c.
I'll save my questions about the pivot until I understand where I'm aiming. Maybe I won't have to ask.

I don’t have the DVD, but I have been having success using variations CTE over several months.

What I have learned from others and several threads is that the initial lining up to the CTE-line is to get you in a starting position behind the CB – especially your forward foot. If you shot from that stance, you would hit the OB sending it at around a 30 degree cut angle. In order to shoot other cut angles, you must move off of that stance before the tip offset and pivoting. This can be a small distance for say a 25 and 35 degrees cut angle; and a larger distance for a “thin” 90 degree cut angle.

To aid with that movement to the side, the secondary features “quarters” or “A. B, C and 1/8 etc. on the OB are used to align with. In order to get the outermost eye aligned, you need to shift your eye, head, body and rear foot until the edge of the CB is aimed at the appropriate quarters or “letters” mentioned above. This achieves a new stance off of the CTE line from which, you raise your cue and bridge hand to the table and in your natural stroking position, you align the tip of your cue ½ tip to the side of the center of the CB and then pivot to the center of the CB, stroke (wherever the cue is aimed at) and shoot.

If you read all of the posts in this thread, you will get other pointers from those that have the DVD.
I hope that this helps.
:smile:

 

[champ2107]

Ok I'm watching this for the second time cause it went right over my head the first time. And here is why: Stan has just described in chapter 3 how to visualize center to edge and edge to center [target b]. Cool got that. Then he says Now after adjusting my stance a little I now see the edge of the cue ball aimed at the right quarter of the object ball. We will call that aiming point c. At that point he loses me because he doesn't explain why he just adjusted his stance and why he has to have the other aiming point. And without this understanding I can't fathom what Stevie or Landon is saying when he explains a shot being point a b or c.
I'll save my questions about the pivot until I understand where I'm aiming. Maybe I won't have to ask.

he adjusted his stance in line with the cte line and can also see the reference line, now he is in position to just drop down on the ball with a half tip pivot.


the b reference points shot will be the hardest to understand at first, often on a b reference shot you will have what you may think is a left pivot, but it will be actually a right pivot or you will drill the ball in the rail a diamond away and may end up banking it somewhere this understanding will come with practice.

 

[pulzcul]

Thanks Gentlemen, I think. Its funny how a concept can be perfectly clear to one person and mud to the next. I'm hoping that my major embarrassment will be realizing how simple it was after I "get it". I will endeavor to perceiver. Don

 

[champ2107]

anybody else have any questions? lol

Learn the a and c reference shots with almost strait in shots first which will help you learn to pivot. This will also help you understand which side to pivot from and then start making the cuts bigger. Then you will get into b references and the pivoting from the other side to make the ball because of the cut angle.

Once this stuff clicks it will be a snowball effect and you will pick it faster and faster with practice.

 

[Mikjary]

LEFT CUTS:

Aim point A: Thick cut angles
Aim point B: Thin cut angles
Aim point C (not discussed): VERY thin cut angles

RIGHT CUTS:

Aim point C: Thick cut angles
Aim point B: Thin cut angles
Aim point A (not discussed) VERY thin cut angles

So, in a GENERAL rule of thumb (this is a variable that is affected by playing conditions, speed, etc), if it's less than a 1/2 ball cut -- it's thick. If it's more than a 1/2 ball cut, it's thin. The direction of the pivot also can affect this based on the playing conditions. Meaning, for a thick left cut that's near borderline... it might be edge to A (left pivot) or edge to B (right pivot). There were some shots that were listed as (not obvious pivots). MOST shots are totally obvious. Some borderline shots are not. One direction will look perfect -- the other not close.

People always ask "Well, how do you KNOW?" Easy--- setup and pivot in one direction. If it's not right, the other way will work. Just reset. It will not take a LONG time to just KNOW. FAR less time than hitting a million balls. I'd guess less than 1000 and you'll be tuned in. So, when someone says, "Well gee whiz--- this take PRACTICE and if you're gonna PRACTICE why not just use ghost ball?" Well... because it doesn't take 20 years of practice - maybe just a few months to perfect--- that's why.

Dave

p.s. Order from thickest to thinnest:

LEFT:

A: right pivot
A: left pivot
B: right pivot
B: left pivot
C: right pivot
C: left pivot

RIGHT:

C: left pivot
C: right pivot
B: left pivot
B: right pivot
A: left pivot
A: right pivot

Right off the bat you should be able to eliminate 1/2 of these for 90% of all shots just based on looking at the shot. An experienced pool player should be able to see if it's an A, B or C alignment and just think is this a L/R pivot? As you progress, you'll always pivot from the same side and just make an alignment adjustment (or cue angle adjustment) to compensate. Cue angle adjustment meaning, if it's a right pivot...pivot beyond center to the left pivot starting position. Notice the angle of attack for your cue. Whenever you need a right pivot, start from this cue angle and back-pivot to center Left handers, do the opposite.

Pros who pivot-- never pivot from the unnatural side. That's why Bustamante is always starts at the left CB edge for each shot. You'll never see him on the right edge of the CB as a starting point.

Wow! This is a good post. A Cte sticky, for sure! :bow-down::smile:

Best,
Mike

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Wow! This is a good post. A Cte sticky, for sure! :bow-down::smile:

Best,
Mike

I made a typo because I typed that up quickly before I headed out of town. Please see that the thin quarter was replaced with 1/8. I went brain-dead, sorry. I edited my post-- so everything is correct now.


Dave

 

[Dead Crab]

I made a typo because I typed that up quickly before I headed out of town. Please see that the thin quarter was replaced with 1/8. I went brain-dead, sorry. I edited my post-- so everything is correct now.


Dave

That is information that would have been useful to put in the glossary of the disc. It is very easy to get lost on the DVD because Stan will be talking about point C, and then Landon will shoot a shot where he says he is aligning to B, and you are going HUH...whyzhedoindat?

In any event, it also clarifies what mechanical CTE is: a system that provides a set of discrete cut angle choices for a given CB-OB relationship. Through experience, it is learned that there is no guarantee that the desired angle will be among this set, and therefore Pro One is needed to interpolate between discrete angles. The transition from mechanical system to experience-based is critical for success, and for some people it may be 1000 balls, but for others may be considerably more.

 

[STICKBNDER]

LEFT CUTS:

Aim point A: Thick cut angles
Aim point B: Thin cut angles
Aim point 1/8: VERY thin cut angles

RIGHT CUTS:

Aim point C: Thick cut angles
Aim point B: Thin cut angles
Aim point 1/8: VERY thin cut angles

So, in a GENERAL rule of thumb (this is a variable that is affected by playing conditions, speed, etc), if it's less than a 1/2 ball cut -- it's thick. If it's more than a 1/2 ball cut, it's thin. The direction of the pivot also can affect this based on the playing conditions. Meaning, for a thick left cut that's near borderline... it might be edge to A (left pivot) or edge to B (right pivot). There were some shots that were listed as (not obvious pivots). MOST shots are totally obvious. Some borderline shots are not. One direction will look perfect -- the other not close.

People always ask "Well, how do you KNOW?" Easy--- setup and pivot in one direction. If it's not right, the other way will work. Just reset. It will not take a LONG time to just KNOW. FAR less time than hitting a million balls. I'd guess less than 1000 and you'll be tuned in. So, when someone says, "Well gee whiz--- this take PRACTICE and if you're gonna PRACTICE why not just use ghost ball?" Well... because it doesn't take 20 years of practice - maybe just a few months to perfect--- that's why.

Dave

p.s. Order from thickest to thinnest:

LEFT:

A: right pivot
A: left pivot
B: right pivot
B: left pivot
1/8: right pivot
1/8: left pivot

RIGHT:

C: left pivot
C: right pivot
B: left pivot
B: right pivot
1/8: left pivot
1/8: right pivot

Right off the bat you should be able to eliminate 1/2 of these for 90% of all shots just based on looking at the shot. An experienced pool player should be able to see if it's an A, B or C alignment and just think is this a L/R pivot? As you progress, you'll always pivot from the same side and just make an alignment adjustment (or cue angle adjustment) to compensate. Cue angle adjustment meaning, if it's a right pivot...pivot beyond center to the left pivot starting position. Notice the angle of attack for your cue. Whenever you need a right pivot, start from this cue angle and back-pivot to center Left handers, do the opposite.

Pros who pivot-- never pivot from the unnatural side. That's why Bustamante is always starts at the left CB edge for each shot. You'll never see him on the right edge of the CB as a starting point.

thats some good stuff right there. thanks spidey. i thought i was confused watch the DVD. i was thinking that there was quite a few different combos of shots. but didnt think i was understanding the video. i will try again with the right frame of mind. thanks!!

 

[SpiderWebComm]

That is information that would have been useful to put in the glossary of the disc. It is very easy to get lost on the DVD because Stan will be talking about point C, and then Landon will shoot a shot where he says he is aligning to B, and you are going HUH...whyzhedoindat?

In any event, it also clarifies what mechanical CTE is: a system that provides a set of discrete cut angle choices for a given CB-OB relationship. Through experience, it is learned that there is no guarantee that the desired angle will be among this set, and therefore Pro One is needed to interpolate between discrete angles. The transition from mechanical system to experience-based is critical for success, and for some people it may be 1000 balls, but for others may be considerably more.

Well sure. And some people (I know a few) will NEVER play good pool no matter what they do or how long they play. You can only talk about "the middle" if you know what I mean. And for the average player, this information will provide objective references to ball making instead of "feeling it" one day and "not" the other. The correct alignment/pivot and straight stroke will make nearly any ball you shoot. Does it take experience to know that in 1.2 seconds--- sure. Do some people think you can put on a magic hat and not practice and just KNOW it and do well---sure.

 

[mohrt]

I have the DVD and now concentrating on manual CTE. I'm still grappling with it after several sessions at the table. From what I gather, there is no specific "aim point" for the cue. You align your body/head/eyes so that you can see both lines in sight, then "move into" the shot with these two visuals. This is quite a concept to grasp, as there are so many variables that can alter how the cue comes to the table. What I'd like to see is some example diagrams: A cue ball, object ball and pocket, and the cue alignment/bridge before and after pivot. Maybe some examples like this, of varying thickness of cuts, will help make clear what we want to accomplish.

 

[JoeyA]

I have the DVD and now concentrating on manual CTE. I'm still grappling with it after several sessions at the table. From what I gather, there is no specific "aim point" for the cue. You align your body/head/eyes so that you can see both lines in sight, then "move into" the shot with these two visuals. This is quite a concept to grasp, as there are so many variables that can alter how the cue comes to the table. What I'd like to see is some example diagrams: A cue ball, object ball and pocket, and the cue alignment/bridge before and after pivot. Maybe some examples like this, of varying thickness of cuts, will help make clear what we want to accomplish.

The aim point of the cue is straight through the middle of the cue ball, after the manual pivot. I look at the shot after pivoting, just observing to see if the shot looks correct. If I am practicing, I will shoot the shot providing I am sure of which coordinates I used and see what the outcome is. If I am playing in competition and the shot looks "wrong", I am very likely to get up off the shot and go through the pre-shot routine all over.

Diagrams, better diagrams are always a plus. I agree.....

Another tip. Start with shots where the cue ball is only two feet from the object ball, at different angles to the object ball and pocket them using the CTE/Pro One coordinates until you can immediately tell if it is an A.B or C reference point, then try out the two different pivots to see which pockets the ball the easiest. Experience is a good teacher.

I think you are smart stickingwith the manual pivoting of CTE/Pro One.

It is an unusual concept for sure and it kind of takes you aback at first. It will get better as you realize and implement the precision of the movements, alignments and pivoting to the exact center of the cue ball.

good luck,

JoeyA

 

[jsp]

The aim point of the cue is straight through the middle of the cue ball, after the manual pivot. I look at the shot after pivoting, just observing to see if the shot looks correct. If I am practicing, I will shoot the shot providing I am sure of which coordinates I used and see what the outcome is. If I am playing in competition and the shot looks "wrong", I am very likely to get up off the shot and go through the pre-shot routine all over.

Joey, how often does your shot look "wrong" after you pivot?

 

[JoeyA]

Joey, how often does your shot look "wrong" after you pivot?

It seldom looks wrong. When it does it is always because of the wrong direction pivot. When I pivot from the other direction it's fine.

 

[champ2107]

LEFT:

A: right pivot
A: left pivot
B: right pivot
B: left pivot
1/8: right pivot
1/8: left pivot

RIGHT:

C: left pivot
C: right pivot
B: left pivot
B: right pivot
1/8: left pivot
1/8: right pivot

My opinion is the the above in bold should be eliminated because its not needed and basically makes the same cut angle as a B-inside pivot shot and i have never used that shot in 2 years of using cte. I looks like it should be there but its not needed.


Figuring out what shot to use i will also do a process of elimination if im having trouble with selection.

I only use five shot angles and this i believe is what Stan teaches in the dvd.

LEFT:

A: right pivot
A: left pivot
B: right pivot
B: left pivot
1/8: left pivot

RIGHT:
C: left pivot
C: right pivot
B: left pivot
B: right pivot
1/8: right pivot

Now if you use Steve moores 4 shot example,(i believe the 5th shot would be a back cut to the right corner 1/8 right pivot,scratch in the side) Basically almost every shot will go in somewhere on a open table either straight in or bank. Just get behind your shot and picture an open table and go through the list from top to bottom and you will figure out what shot goes where. I do this and it works when needed.

On a cut to the left, there are only three visual and the same goes for cuts to the right. A straight in shot is pretty easy to identify and so is the 1/8 overlap shot. That leaves the middle three shots. The two most used shots i have noticed are a A-C inside pivot followed by a B - inside pivot shot. They are in bold below.

C: left pivot
C: right pivot
B: left pivot
B: right pivot
1/8: right pivot

This is all the opinion of champ2107 :thumbup: