Pro One

[JB Cases]

Well, I've gone over this 3 times and tried to do it step by step and it just won't work for me. When I see so many of you saying you're making ALL shots the same day you receive the DVD and after my initial work I'm just lost.
I don't care how I move my eyes or my head I do not see the lines adjusting or setting up for a backup aim.
The left to right and right to left are different just before the 4th chapter and that hasn't helped me.
There's other points but I'm going to keep trying for another couple of weeks and see if the lightbulb gets lit. Lord knows I could use the help and practice doesn't scare me, but I would like to know that I'm practicing the right way.
Good luck to all you guys.

Don't give up but do wait a little bit for people to absorb this and start figuring out HOW to help those who don't see it.

I don't know how long ago I decided to give CTE a shot. 6 months maybe. At the beginning I didn't really "get it" either. I stuck with it because Hal Houle gave me another system 8 years ago that really helped me and if he and others were saying that CTE is better then I believed them.

But at the beginning with all the arguments and partial information and conflicting information it was very hard to figure out. Eventually with trial and error and some helpful PRIVATE advice I was able to figure out CTE to the point that I use it exclusively for aiming and I use it when I gamble on pool.

I have a pool table 5ft away from my desk so I have the ability to get up and try things when I want to. When I didn't then it was very difficult for me to practice CTE because in the pool room setting I am self-conscious and also often involved in conversation. People come up and want to play, etc....

So I can appreciate how it must be for people looking at a video which has instructions that are contrary to what most of us grew up on and not be able to take it to the table at will. Even if you do have a table I can see how it can be really frustrating without someone to help you.

All I can say is that the benefits are worth the journey if you care about playing better. The other night I played and I can honestly say that CTE Aiming was 85% responsible for allowing me to make a lot of game winning shots which I otherwise would have missed. I say this because I know myself and my game and I know what my strengths and weaknesses are (were) when I play pool.

The other 15% that was responsible for me making those shots is learning a different way to stroke so that my stroke was pure and straight. Why do I give it 15% - because I know that even if my stroke wasn't now changed I still would have made most of those shots due to CTE Aiming. Now though, having a good stroke combined with CTE has boosted my confidence level tremendously and my real world results show it.

Just a few moments ago I did a little drill that I often do when I come to work. I put up 10 balls near the end rail about half a diamond away. Then taking cue ball in hand I put the cue ball at a slight angle and shoot each one in. The cue ball and the object ball are close. This is the type of shot that is easy to misjudge the hit. I used CTE and made all ten. I do all sorts of drills like this throughout the day in order to test the limits of what I can do with CTE. If I had a way to record all that and the time to edit it then you would see some of the most incredible looking shots going in consistently.

So don't give up. Let it go for now if you are frustrated and wait a bit and you will see that the "group" will come up with ways to teach and explain it that you can get. Now that we are all privy to the same information it should be much easier for us to have conversations about it.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You might be right. If I am doing it "wrong", I'm still getting the desired results. Just a disclaimer, tho; I've been using CTE( HAl Houle's version) for many years. Maybe we should ask Stan to clarify on his version of CTE?


Eric

Hal had about 20 ways of saying the same thing. Hal used to say to sight down the CTEL and then poke your head out to see "the outermost edge." He also made that 3-cut post (and left out the pivot on purpose).

Teaching someone how to sight an outermost edge isn't easy because everyone sees differently. Using the A, B, C terminology gives objective references for the perspective required to pocket the ball, regardless how one sees.

Basically, it's all the same. On a thick cut when you "poke your head out a little bit," you're really sighting edge to A/C (depending on the direction). On a back cut when you're poking your head to the inside of the CTEL, you have an edge to A/C (depending on the direction) perspective.

Hal told us the same thing many different ways to make sure we understood the info. Some people like to shift to see a "new edge" and others like less cryptic references like edge to A, B or C from the CTEL.

If you have a "have to make" shot, you can sight the outermost edge, check the edge to A/B/C alignment, check 90-90/90-half or even a SAM number --- all at the same time. Takes 2 secs. All these systems triangulate to the same point. Multiple references defeat illusions.

Sorry for the long post--- I'm getting Zinfandeled-up

 

[pulzcul]

Well, I've gone over this 3 times and tried to do it step by step and it just won't work for me. When I see so many of you saying you're making ALL shots the same day you receive the DVD and after my initial work I'm just lost.
I don't care how I move my eyes or my head I do not see the lines adjusting or setting up for a backup aim.
The left to right and right to left are different just before the 4th chapter and that hasn't helped me.
There's other points but I'm going to keep trying for another couple of weeks and see if the lightbulb gets lit. Lord knows I could use the help and practice doesn't scare me, but I would like to know that I'm practicing the right way.
Good luck to all you guys.

Don't feel bad, I don't get it either. I just watched it today and I feel stupid. Gonna try it again tomorrow and see if my "bulb" might light. Don

 

[irock]

The hardest part for me was lining up using the outside edge of the CB with A B & C. Once you are lined up on CTE, look at where the CB edge is lined up on the OB. Picture an imaginary line from the edge of the CB to A a & B on left cuts, one line will look much more paralell with the CTE line, the other will be off. Remember, left cuts will only be to A or B and right cuts will only be to B or C.

 

[irock]

pulczul, don't feel bad, I was starting to feel like Gilligan. Thank you to all my AZ friends for helping me out.

 

[LAMas]

Well, I've gone over this 3 times and tried to do it step by step and it just won't work for me. When I see so many of you saying you're making ALL shots the same day you receive the DVD and after my initial work I'm just lost.
I don't care how I move my eyes or my head I do not see the lines adjusting or setting up for a backup aim.
The left to right and right to left are different just before the 4th chapter and that hasn't helped me.
There's other points but I'm going to keep trying for another couple of weeks and see if the lightbulb gets lit. Lord knows I could use the help and practice doesn't scare me, but I would like to know that I'm practicing the right way.
Good luck to all you guys.

In the upper left picture, notice the ETC (edge to center) line and try to see that with your right eye. You should have to move your eye, head, body and thus a new stance. From this new stance, put your bridge hand and cue 1/2 tip to the right and then pivot.

 

[JohnPT]

Good on you guys for having the patience to work on this. I too bought the DVD. Not too long in it I got annoyed I felt like Stan was taking things for granted like I'm supposed to already know what he's talking about.

Anyhow, I had finished watching the CTE segment and just starting the PRO1 when I decided to go downstairs and try it out on the table. I had worked hard on training myself to drop my cue straight down vertically onto the line of the shot from the get go and the the PRO1 you kinda swing through from the side just felt really weird for me. After only a couple tries I decided it wasn't gonna work for me and haven't bothered to finish the DVD.

What it did do is made me realize that I guess I dont feel too bad about my aim and I don't having any feelings of missing out. I am confident I'd shoot better by taking the time to learn CTE and just apply it to refining my own technique.

 

[JB Cases]

I am about to make a video of what I do. I sight the CTE Line - put my hand down - pivot to center - shoot.

I am anxiously awaiting the video so I can see how it jibes with what I am doing now but I can't imagine it being much easier than what I am doing now.

There are very few shots where I adjust my basic routine. Those are mostly when the cue ball and object ball are close togehter and when the object ball is close to the rail. I will adjust ever so slightly for throw.

I think when the lightbulb does go off then it's a game changer.

 

[JB Cases]

Good on you guys for having the patience to work on this. I too bought the DVD. Not too long in it I got annoyed I felt like Stan was taking things for granted like I'm supposed to already know what he's talking about.

Anyhow, I had finished watching the CTE segment and just starting the PRO1 when I decided to go downstairs and try it out on the table. I had worked hard on training myself to drop my cue straight down vertically onto the line of the shot from the get go and the the PRO1 you kinda swing through from the side just felt really weird for me. After only a couple tries I decided it wasn't gonna work for me and haven't bothered to finish the DVD.

What it did do is made me realize that I guess I dont feel too bad about my aim and I don't having any feelings of missing out. I am confident I'd shoot better by taking the time to learn CTE and just apply it to refining my own technique.

I think for me this was the biggest change as well. I have spent a lot of time "stepping into the shot" from behind the cue. Lay the cue down on the shot line and step into it.

All the pivoting and wiggling my ass to swing the cue in from the side was disconcerting.

But it paid off. And what I have noticed by watching a ton of video trying to see what the pros do is that very few of them ever step into the shot the way we are taught. You hardly ever see a pro putting their cue down first along the shot line. Almost always they are coming into the shot from the side.

Now I KNOW that this DOES NOT mean that they are using CTE or anything like it.

My own personal theory on this motion is that it's what pros do because it's what works best for them. In other words I think that the natural evolution when getting to be a top level pool player is to come into the shot from the side. Somewhere I read that maybe they do this so that the cue is not in the way of aiming, I don't know. But if you really look then you will see that most pros come in from the side.

Now, so do I and I play better than I did before.

I tend to feel very bad when I miss a shot because missing usually costs me money.

 

[champ2107]

everyone struggling, trying to get this cte stuff to sink in still?

 

[champ2107]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjCnZSVjBrw&feature=related

i found this interesting and it made cte pop in my head.

 

[JB Cases]

Got my DVD yesterday and have watched it one and ahalf times. I will be posting my thoughts once I have put in some table time with it.

My initial reaction is that it's well done and clear as to the production and the pace. However it is true that it will be confusing to some people depending on their familiarity with Hal Houle's systems in practice and especially with CTE.

This information to me is not something that you can easily "get" by simply viewing the DVD once. Joey A is right about learning the terms and the vocabulary.

Also there is information on it that does not coincide with CTE as it has been described online. No real surprise there as there is no official version of CTE.

But as I said before this is a concrete version that everyone can follow with exact steps. Thus we can all be on the same page and help each other to digest and understand the information.

I can see where Stan can make the claim that it is an exact system and a center pocket system and even where the claim can be made that it is mechanically sound.

As I dive into the nuts and bolts I will be more able to discuss them. For now this is just a short note to let you all know that I have the DVD.

 

[JoeyA]

Got my DVD yesterday and have watched it one and ahalf times. I will be posting my thoughts once I have put in some table time with it.

My initial reaction is that it's well done and clear as to the production and the pace. However it is true that it will be confusing to some people depending on their familiarity with Hal Houle's systems in practice and especially with CTE.

This information to me is not something that you can easily "get" by simply viewing the DVD once. Joey A is right about learning the terms and the vocabulary.

Also there is information on it that does not coincide with CTE as it has been described online. No real surprise there as there is no official version of CTE.

But as I said before this is a concrete version that everyone can follow with exact steps. Thus we can all be on the same page and help each other to digest and understand the information.

I can see where Stan can make the claim that it is an exact system and a center pocket system and even where the claim can be made that it is mechanically sound.

As I dive into the nuts and bolts I will be more able to discuss them. For now this is just a short note to let you all know that I have the DVD.

I can't wait until you have had time to practice executing the shots as outlined in the video.

 

[LAMas]

From what I heard (for manual CTE, not Pro One), you would move your head/eyes/stance to the point where you see the two visuals needed for the shot (slightly off the CTEL), then move straight in toward the CB from that point -- sliding your bridge hand in on that line until you are at a half-tip offset position -- then pivot and shoot.

Anyone else hear it this way?

This thread is very informative to me. I don't have the DVD but there has for the first time bits of info that have come together for me.

What you say seems correct for it works well for a first crack at the table. I was and am looking for a way to more accurately make thin cuts. I am a double distance and GB user. For thin cuts where double distance spots are off of the edge of the OB on the cloth or rail my appoximations are often not accurate.

I spent some time lining up my cue on the CTE line; moving my head, eyes, feet and body to the side until the edge of the CB was lined up with the opposite edge of the OB. I double checked my alignment with my cue on the edge to opposite edge. Without moving my new stance, I slid my bridge and cue to 1/2 tip off of the center of the CB and then pivoted to center of the CB and shot.

I missed the OB edge a couple of times but made more thin cuts with slight adjustments like less than a 1/2 tip offset especially at the longer separations betweeen the CB and OB.

With more practice it will get better and better - I am sure.

I played around with tip offsets from the straight in shot for small thick cuts and the same for the just off the CTE 30 degree cut.

I then tried the edge of the CB aimed at the center of the OB and was getting close to a 45 degree cut. I applied top to the CB to increase the angle and that worked to alter the angle a bit.

I know that for me, I have to determine the angle that I want to achieve to get the OB to the pocket/target and can use CTE to achieve these cut angles by making the routine adjustments that I make with double distance and GB aiming.

I enjoyed my time at the table where the hints and PMs from Dave, Mike, Pete and others came together for the first time. Before this thread, I was using different tip offsets and bridge distances behind the CB to get meaningful results from earlier explainations of CTE...as I understood them.

I also fortified my belief that using primary and secondary points on the OB; CTE compensates for the CB appearing smaller when the distance between the CB and OB increase for the distances betweeen these points also gets smaller and the included angle necessarily get narrower.

Thanks for the trip.:smile:

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Thanks LAMas for the diagrams. I had a lesson with Stan over a year ago and some things are confusing to me now. I plan to go back to Stan for a refresher especially for banks and combinations.

 

[champ2107]

Just got my copy

 

[champ2107]

10 mins in he is showing cte exactly like i shoot it, except for what i assume is the A and C reference or double checking that i think is coming.

wow, that reference point looks like it will really help, especially when its a B reference! this is where i would have trouble is on B reference type shots.

20 mins in and so far its identical how i shoot cte, minus the reference check.

30 mins and still no problem, banks are easy and the same as i have always shot them with cte,

40 mins in, now onto pro 1, now the pivot seems to be only an air pivot, like spiderwebbcom shows on his vids?

 

[JoeyA]

10 mins in he is showing cte exactly like i shoot it, except for what i assume is the A and C reference or double checking that i think is coming.

wow, that reference point looks like it will really help, especially when its a B reference! this is where i would have trouble is on B reference type shots.

20 mins in and so far its identical how i shoot cte, minus the reference check.

30 mins and still no problem, banks are easy and the same as i have always shot them with cte, but the reference points are getting a little tricky with the in between checks , but should easy to figure out on the table.

40 mins in, now onto pro 1, now the pivot seems to be only an air pivot, like spiderwebbcom shows on his vids?

I showed CTE/Pro One to a local up and coming player who has ordered the DVD but it hasn't come in just yet (he ordered it later after he read all the stuff on AZB) and he ALWAYS had trouble making a "B" back cut. Now he is splitting the pocket. Granted, he has only been playing a couple of years but still, this is one shot that he feared every time he saw it. Now, he can make it practically every shot where in the past (B.CTE/pro One.), he missed this shot practically every time.

He had some difficulty with the new terminology at first but it's slowly sinking in. It only gets easier with time.

 

[bes]

Pretty Confused

I had no previous experience with any aiming systems (except ghost ball), so this is all new. I go the video and have watched the CTE part a couple times.

I'm totally confused. I HAVE to be missing something. Maybe several somethings.

There seems to be no actual, specific reference, adjustment, or alignment with the pocket or whatever target is desired - save for initially sighting towards the far (away from target) side of the ball. Is this correct? I assume it isn't, but can't figure out what I'm missing.

Question/example: Say you line up a shot where the cue and object balls are 1 diamond off the long rail and 1 diamond apart. Let's say the object ball is 1 diamond from the short rail, which leaves you a 45 degree cut. I can't seem to make it work, but, lets say you (or I) line up CTE, find the Edge to "C" line, line up your cue (with 1/2 tip offset), do the pivot, then drive the object ball into the center of the pocket.

Now move both balls back a diamond farther from the target. As I see it, you'll HAVE to make some significant adjustment, since a 45 degree cut will result in a miss (about a diamond off). You'll need to end up with a cut angle of about 25.6 degrees to make this shot (if my geometry is right).

What adjustments are made, when, and how to end up with such a significantly different result. The half tip pivot is consistent - roughly 2 degrees with a 6" bridge length. The angle of the line from the edge to "C" (or "A" if cutting the other way) won't change (as I understand it), since the balls are the same distance apart.

I know I'm missing something big, but can't figure it out. I'll watch the video some more, but would really like some help...

bes
p.s. I would LOVE for this to work for me. My eyes aren't getting younger, so any aiming help will be great. Right now, my brain hurts...

 

[LAMas]

There are two shots that don't require a tip shift or pivot...the straight in shot and the 30 degree cut angle shot where you aim the center of the CB to the edge of the OB (CTE). You may cut this less than 30 degrees due to impact/skid.