PRO ONE DVD: Answering Questions

The inside edge is never = to the CTEL. It's impossible. I'm also confused about how you can be 1/2 offset on either side and be at true CB center.

???????

I'm prob just reading this stuff wrong, it's been a long day. Sorry guys.

Also, the tip offset has nothing to do with "true" CTE. There's no such thing as "only true CTE has X offset". The offset can be a variable from 1/2 tip to a 1/2 ball. Doesn't matter.
 
The amount of overlap (i.e., pre-pivot ball-hit fraction) is the same, but the sighting-line angle changes with CB-OB distances.
Can you explain the sighting line angle?
Yes. If you sight tangent to the CB (along the visible "outer" edge) to point "A" on an OB, and then do the same thing for an OB farther away (with the 2nd OB along the same line of centers as the original CB and OB), the edge-to-"A" line for the 2nd OB will be at a different angle (i.e., the sighting lines for the two OBs will not be parallel). This might sound complicated, but it's really easy to show if you make a drawing or try it at the table.

Regards,
Dave
 
After viewing Stan's DVD several times, and after reading many of the posts in recent CTE and Pro-One threads, I've done my best to try to summarize this version of CTE on my CTE resource page (see version 4). I've also tried to use general terminology (e.g., inside/outside instead of A/B/C and left/right) to make the summary as concise as possible. I've also listed names and cut-angle ranges for the different lines of aim, in the spirit of previous versions of CTE. Again, this is my interpretation of the method. Other people might see it differently. Anyway, here it is:

While standing, sight through the center of the CB and the outside edge of the OB (i.e., sight along the CTE line). Then, based on the amount of cut needed, shift your sight line, bring your cue into alignment as you drop straight into your stance, and pivot as described below:

  • For a "straight-in" shot (very little or no cut), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the inside 1/4* of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip outside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "very thick" cut (more than about 3/4-ball hit), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the inside 1/4* of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip inside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "medium thick" cut (about 1/2-to-3/4-ball hit), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the center of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip outside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "medium" cut (about 1/2-ball hit), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the center of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip inside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "medium thin" cut (about 1/2-to-1/4 ball hit), sight along the inside 1/8 of the CB and the outside 1/8 of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip outside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "very thin" cut (less than 1/4-ball hit), sight along the inside 1/8 of the CB and the outside 1/8 of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip inside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
Note - On the CTE resource page, the information above is summarized even more concisely in tabulated form.

You develop a feel for the alignment and pivot required for a given cut based on lots of practice and experience.

*: If the CB-OB distance is less than about 1', sight to "inside 1/8" instead of "inside 1/4."

You also need to adjust your bridge length based on CB-OB distance: about 8-9" when several feet apart, about 7-8" when about 2' apart, about 6-7" when about 1' apart, about 5-6" when less than about 1' apart, and very short when the balls a very close.​

The DVD doesn't provide much guidance on how to decide which alignment and pivot to use for a given shot; although, all of the examples are useful to help figure out how the amount of cut influences the decision.

I'll be curious to hear whether or everybody thinks this is an accurate and fair description of the method. Again, this is my interpretation and opinion, based on what I have learned so far.

Concerning "Pro One," to me it seems less like an "aiming system" and more like a "level of ability" that one can develop through lots of practice with CTE, where bridge hand placement and accurate center-ball alignment come naturally without a mechanical fixed-bridge pivot.

As I point out on my CTE resource page, I think Stan's version is potential better than the other quoted versions because it has more lines of aim and because the pivot amount is small (which limits bridge length and CB-OB distance effects).

I hope the summaries on the resource page help people better understand and compare the different versions of CTE.
And they think golfers have alot going on in order to perform the exact shot...lol
Agreed! CTE might sound simple on the surface, but when you try to describe it in words clearly and completely, it's not as simple as it might sound at first.

Regards,
Dave
 
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Yes. If you sight tangent to the CB (along the visible "outer" edge) to point "A" on an OB, and then do the same thing for an OB farther away (with the 2nd OB along the same line of centers as the original CB and OB), the edge-to-"A" line for the 2nd OB will be at a different angle (i.e., the sighting lines for the two OBs will not be parallel). This might sound complicated, but it's really easy to show if you make a drawing or try it at the table.

Regards,
Dave

That makes sense. I think I'm referring to the perceived size of the OB compared to the perceived size of the CB. Visually speaking - I come off the CTEL for an "edge to A" visual more for a close shot than I would a far shot based on the size of the OB -- not the line of centers.

Like this:
comparey.jpg
 
Agreed! CTE might sound simple on the surface, but when you try to describe it in words clearly and completely, it's not as simple as it might sound at first.

Regards,
Dave

CTE (execution-wise) is prob the easiest objective way to pocket any ball ever. Math-wise, I still don't think we have the whole picture after years of discussion.... although we're a lot closer.
 
The inside edge is never = to the CTEL. It's impossible. I'm also confused about how you can be 1/2 offset on either side and be at true CB center.

???????

I'm prob just reading this stuff wrong, it's been a long day. Sorry guys.

Also, the tip offset has nothing to do with "true" CTE. There's no such thing as "only true CTE has X offset". The offset can be a variable from 1/2 tip to a 1/2 ball. Doesn't matter.

All I'm saying Dave is without any other ball involved other than the cueball, when you sight the cueball to true vertical center on it's own your tip is offset a 1/2 a tip either side of center!! The pro-One DVD shows this in Chapter 2..Stan shows a pre-pivot off-set either way of 1 full tip and pivots a 1/2 tip back to true vertical center..Hope this explains it!!
 
All I'm saying Dave is without any other ball involved other than the cueball, when you sight the cueball to true vertical center on it's own your tip is offset a 1/2 a tip either side of center!! The pro-One DVD shows this in Chapter 2..Stan shows a pre-pivot off-set either way of 1 full tip and pivots a 1/2 tip back to true vertical center..Hope this explains it!!
Sure does. I read your earlier post incorrectly.
 
If by solution, you mean cut angle, then the answer is no. The cut angle can change with the distance between the balls with a fixed alignment and fixed-bridge pivot of fixed bridge length. In other, words, if you use the same alignment and don't change the "effective pivot length," the cut angle will change with distance between the balls. FYI, I have a good illustration of this on my CTE resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Yes, thanks Dr. Dave..I will try some of your findings at the table!!
 
i stopped into shooters this afternoon, across the street from a couple customers of mine and grabbed a beer and got to watch johnny mora shooting 9 ball by himself on a diamond bar box 10 feet away from the bar! i think he missed a couple shots in about 8 games! He shot so soft, but damn he was putting some spin on the ball! thought i would share, no cte.
 
Simple as A, B & C.

After viewing Stan's DVD several times, and after reading many of the posts in recent CTE and Pro-One threads, I've done my best to try to summarize this version of CTE on my CTE resource page (see version 4). I've also tried to use general terminology (e.g., inside/outside instead of A/B/C and left/right) to make the summary as concise as possible. I've also listed names and cut-angle ranges for the different lines of aim, in the spirit of previous versions of CTE. Again, this is my interpretation of the method. Other people might see it differently. Anyway, here it is:

While standing, sight through the center of the CB and the outside edge of the OB (i.e., sight along the CTE line). Then, based on the amount of cut needed, shift your sight line, bring your cue into alignment as you drop straight into your stance, and pivot as described below:

  • For a "straight-in" shot (very little or no cut), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the inside 1/4* of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip outside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "very thick" cut (more than about 3/4-ball hit), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the inside 1/4* of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip inside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "medium thick" cut (about 1/2-to-3/4-ball hit), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the center of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip outside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "medium" cut (about 1/2-ball hit), sight along the inside edge of the CB and the center of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip inside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "medium thin" cut (about 1/2-to-1/4 ball hit), sight along the inside 1/8 of the CB and the outside 1/8 of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip outside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
  • For a "very thin" cut (less than 1/4-ball hit), sight along the inside 1/8 of the CB and the outside 1/8 of the OB. Guided by this line, place the cue 1/2-tip inside of the CB center, and then pivot to the center of the CB.
Note - On the CTE resource page, the information above is summarized even more concisely in tabulated form.

You develop a feel for the alignment and pivot required for a given cut based on lots of practice and experience.

*: If the CB-OB distance is less than about 1', sight to "inside 1/8" instead of "inside 1/4."

You also need to adjust your bridge length based on CB-OB distance: about 10-12" when several feet apart, about 8-9" when about 2' apart, about 6-7" when about 1' apart, about 5-6" when less than about 1' apart, and very short when the balls a very close.​

The DVD doesn't provide much guidance on how to decide which alignment and pivot to use for a given shot; although, all of the examples are useful to help figure out how the amount of cut influences the decision.

I'll be curious to hear whether or everybody thinks this is an accurate and fair description of the method. Again, this is my interpretation and opinion, based on what I have learned so far.

Concerning "Pro One," to me it seems less like an "aiming system" and more like a "level of ability" that one can develop through lots of practice with CTE, where bridge hand placement and accurate center-ball alignment come naturally without a mechanical fixed-bridge pivot.

As I point out on my CTE resource page, I think Stan's version is potential better than the other quoted versions because it has more lines of aim and because the pivot amount is small (which limits bridge length and CB-OB distance effects).

I hope the summaries on the resource page help people better understand and compare the different versions of CTE.

Thanks,
Dave

WOW!
That wording for reference points A, B & C make it difficult to grasp.

Here is a diagram for aiming the edge of the cue ball at the reference points.
picture.php


First align center of cue ball to outer edge of object ball, THEN:
For cuts to the right, aim the right edge of the cue ball at B or C only!
For cuts to the left, aim the left edge of the cue ball at A or B only!

This might be a little easier to understand???

JoeyA
 
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First align center of cue ball to outer edge of object ball, THEN:
For cuts to the right, aim the left edge of the cue ball at B or C only!
For cuts to the left, aim the right edge of the cue ball at A or B only!

This might be a little easier to understand???

JoeyA

Looks like a "mindo," Joey. The blue "left" and "right" should be reversed.
 
First align center of cue ball to outer edge of object ball, THEN:
For cuts to the right, aim the left edge of the cue ball at B or C only!
For cuts to the left, aim the right edge of the cue ball at A or B only!

This might be a little easier to understand???

JoeyA

Please help me understand. Example: For a right cut, if I am on the center to edge line (CTEL), then the right edge of the cue ball will line up at B or C. Otherwise, I am not on the true CTEL.

I understand the A,B or C points to be alignment aids for the CTEL. Or do I aim CTEL first and then adjust aim for CB edge to A,B or C (depending on the cut angle)?
 
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Please help me understand. Example: For a right cut, if I am on the center to edge line (CTEL), then left right edge of the cue ball will be at B or C. Otherwise, I am not on the CTEL.

I understand the A,B or C points to be alignment aids for the CTEL. Or do I aim CTEL first and then adjust aim for left CB edge to A,B or C?

With a cut to the right, you line up center to edge to the left side of OB and referencing B or C with right edge of CB.. With a right to left pivot.. I believe JoeyA has it backwards!!
 
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