Naysayers Unite

I for myself do not believe in aiming system other than ghost ball which always makes perfect sense to me. Aim at the ghost ball, be aware of the friction, be aware of the gear effect (it does change the OB's path wether you use topspin or backspin) and allow for deflection and throw.

I'm not saying any of these other systems don't work, I only wish to be taught wrong. I just don't understand why people needed to invent them in the first place. I believe aiming comes from experience, memory and good judgement. If you can't aim by yourself or can't see the lines with your eyes, then maybe any system will just slightly cover what you are lacking.....to aim with your eye.

And you know what they say about judgment, it comes from experience...which usually comes from bad judgement.

BTW. I'm not bashing on anything as I don't know them, I just feel that anyone who can aim naturally shouldn't need those. Correct me if need be.
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
I think I will have to create a naysayer-group on yahoo, where we can freely discuss how cte does not work without constantly being trolled by the pivotists.
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Yes, that is a GREAT IDEA!

But you forget the naysayers mission statement: "Naysayers, we can't be miserable alone, we must invite those happy aiming system users to our threads so we can try to make them miserable too! :D:D:D:D:D
 
JoeyA said:
Yes, that is a GREAT IDEA!

But you forget the naysayers mission statement: "Naysayers, we can't be miserable alone, we must invite those happy aiming system users to our threads so we can try to make them miserable too! :D:D:D:D:D
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You just can't give it a rest can you?
Well since you mentioned it, I overheard one of those slap-happy aiming system users pose the question. "Will those DVDs show me how to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time? I'm having a little problem with that part of it." :D:D:D:D:D
 
I've watched the video several times, but just can't make a lot of sense of it. Being an engineer may be a curse, but, when I hear some of the claims, my BS alarm just goes off. I admit to having a built-in need for logical explanations. Math would help even more.

Favorite Goofy claim: "There are 360 points on the surface of the ball." This is silly - there are 360 degrees in a full circle, but there are way, WAY more than 360 points. Theoretically, there are an infinite number of points along the circumference of a circle. In reality, there are far fewer than infinity, but orders of magnitude more than 360.

Second Favorite Goofy claim: "This is an exact, center pocket system." How can it be when the center of the pocket is NEVER referenced. I find any system where the target isn't a primary variable or focus point to be questionable.

There are some others, but, I just can't get past some of the basic (IMO) goofiness of the concept. Admission: I have a very tough time visualizing and aiming at 1/2 balls, 1/4 balls, etc. My brain and eyes just don't seem to work that way. Aiming along invisible lines at poorly understood (by me) points, then pointing the cue elsewhere just isn't something I'm wanting to spend more time on. I tried, but basically wasted a couple dozen table hours "teaching" myself to (badly) miss lots of shots I used to make easily. About the time I realized I was calculating where I needed to aim to be a pivot away from correct I decided I had better things to do...

Positives (can't help myself): I think that real attention paid to consistent setup and alignment should be a real boost to most of us. Real focus on the cue and object ball should help too. Paying attention to misses and making (and remembering) the adjustments also should be rewarding in the long run.

p.s. The Pro 1 system (no pivot or visible adjsutments) does seem to lend itself to false claims. I don't really think a lot of folks are getting paid to make these claims, but it would be very easy for anyone to say (maybe to shark their peers?) that they rely on it. It would be hard to disprove, and might cause their opponents to waste a bunch of practice time...
 
bes said:
I've watched the video several times, but just can't make a lot of sense of it. Being an engineer may be a curse, but, when I hear some of the claims, my BS alarm just goes off. I admit to having a built-in need for logical explanations. Math would help even more.

Favorite Goofy claim: "There are 360 points on the surface of the ball." This is silly - there are 360 degrees in a full circle, but there are way, WAY more than 360 points. Theoretically, there are an infinite number of points along the circumference of a circle. In reality, there are far fewer than infinity, but orders of magnitude more than 360.

Second Favorite Goofy claim: "This is an exact, center pocket system." How can it be when the center of the pocket is NEVER referenced. I find any system where the target isn't a primary variable or focus point to be questionable.

There are some others, but, I just can't get past some of the basic (IMO) goofiness of the concept. Admission: I have a very tough time visualizing and aiming at 1/2 balls, 1/4 balls, etc. My brain and eyes just don't seem to work that way. Aiming along invisible lines at poorly understood (by me) points, then pointing the cue elsewhere just isn't something I'm wanting to spend more time on. I tried, but basically wasted a couple dozen table hours "teaching" myself to (badly) miss lots of shots I used to make easily. About the time I realized I was calculating where I needed to aim to be a pivot away from correct I decided I had better things to do...

Positives (can't help myself): I think that real attention paid to consistent setup and alignment should be a real boost to most of us. Real focus on the cue and object ball should help too. Paying attention to misses and making (and remembering) the adjustments also should be rewarding in the long run.

p.s. The Pro 1 system (no pivot or visible adjsutments) does seem to lend itself to false claims. I don't really think a lot of folks are getting paid to make these claims, but it would be very easy for anyone to say (maybe to shark their peers?) that they rely on it. It would be hard to disprove, and might cause their opponents to waste a bunch of practice time...
Click to expand...

Actually, there are NO points....it's round! The points are on the pockets!

MM...and BTW, just because someone SAYS CTE is BS, that doesn't mean they really believe that!!!:D
 
If pool were big business there would have been a lot of people buying stock in CTE stock and very high hopes for a huge profit. I would imagine after the hyped up CTE/pro one dvd came out and all the reports of the confusion it would be time to sell sell sell and the stock would be plunging about now.

People don't enjoy being confused and wasting money and after so many people are reporting that this is the result the dvd is never going to be as popular as I'm sure Stan imagined.

Sure you can try to read a ton of posts and sort through the posts that actually help understand the system from the posts that make it even more confusing or call Stan during one of his scheduled phone answering sessions and hope he's available. But people aren't going to spend all the money to sign up for all that.

Just my honest opinion from a Naysayer.
 
MM...and BTW, just because someone SAYS CTE is BS, that doesn't mean they really believe that!!!:D[/QUOTE]

I say it's BS, and I believe it. :)
 
I bought the DVD and watched it with an open mind. I was dissatisfied with the overall product. I do believe that CTE has something to offer in terms of game improvement for me but in this DVD, the material was not presented well enough for me to get it.

I would ask for a refund if the product came with a money back guarantee.

Please take this for what it's worth from an open-minded customer.
 
Tramp Steamer said:
I say it's BS, and I believe it. :)
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Again, if its BS, why does it work? My pocketing has improved drastically over the past 3 months of switching to my system. I rarely practices and only play about once a week.

My friends laughed when I told them I was switching and tried to explain the system. Now they want me to teach them. Strange...
 
arcticmonkey said:
I bought the DVD and watched it with an open mind. I was dissatisfied with the overall product. I do believe that CTE has something to offer in terms of game improvement for me but in this DVD, the material was not presented well enough for me to get it.

I would ask for a refund if the product came with a money back guarantee.

Please take this for what it's worth from an open-minded customer.
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Sadly, I agree. I don't think Stan do a good job of explaining the system to someone that knows nothing about it. I met with Stan at the Derby and he cleared up some issues for me free of charge. Worked with me for maybe 45 min and watched me work on it for another 20 min.

I still prefer my aiming voodoo over his system, but I've taken a few things from his dvd to add to my game.
 
PocketPoint said:
If I'm Stevie Moore type player, I'm a world class player, but I'm probably not making a great living from pool. I'll agree to be in the dvd and say I use CTE for let's say, $500.

At $40 per dvd, if Stan can sell 13 additional DVD's by using Stevie, then it's worth it.


I AM NOT saying this is what happened. I am saying to be careful about things like this. Just because a pro says he uses some system, doesn't mean it is so.

I'm not saying anything bad about Stevie, I've seen him play in person and he's a top player.
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Sure, you're saying something bad about Stevie. You're insinuating it, you're saying it.

You're just like all of the rest of the naysayers. Never anything nice to say.

The whole bunch of you have to make these type of sleazy remarks, just to have your day in the sun. It's really sad.

It's bad enough that you snipe in on every thread concerning CTE/Pro One and ridicule the users of aiming systems but now you have to go and throw Stevie Moore under the bus. Nice job.......:barf::barf:
 
JoeyA said:
Sure, you're saying something bad about Stevie. You're insinuating it, you're saying it.

You're just like all of the rest of the naysayers. Never anything nice to say.

The whole bunch of you have to make these type of sleazy remarks, just to have your day in the sun. It's really sad.

It's bad enough that you snipe in on every thread concerning CTE/Pro One and ridicule the users of aiming systems but now you have to go and throw Stevie Moore under the bus. Nice job.......:barf::barf:
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Really into this CTE Guard Dog role, huh?

Down, boy; you're getting foam all over the forum.

pj
chgo
 
cleary said:
Again, if its BS, why does it work? My pocketing has improved drastically over the past 3 months of switching to my system. I rarely practices and only play about once a week.

My friends laughed when I told them I was switching and tried to explain the system. Now they want me to teach them. Strange...
Click to expand...

We don't (the Naysayers) think that is does, cleary. I don't know what your current skill level is but if it's on the low end then almost anything will show up as a perceived improvement. Two, three, and four-speed players tend to plateau at a slower pace than say six, seven, and eight-speeds which means that improvements are more readily noticeable.
I am in no way implying that you are being dishonest, but regardless of whatever you think has caused your gain in ability, anecdotal evidence is always highly suspect.
 
JoeyA said:
Sure, you're saying something bad about Stevie. You're insinuating it, you're saying it.

You're just like all of the rest of the naysayers. Never anything nice to say.

The whole bunch of you have to make these type of sleazy remarks, just to have your day in the sun. It's really sad.

It's bad enough that you snipe in on every thread concerning CTE/Pro One and ridicule the users of aiming systems but now you have to go and throw Stevie Moore under the bus. Nice job.......:barf::barf:
Click to expand...

Joey,

It looks like you're up to your a$$ in alligators. Yaw Loooosiana boys are used ta dat, I'm shaw. Now some bad things are getting linked to Stevie Moore. How desperate are the keyboard cowboys getting?

He's a friend of a friend. If anybody wants to get a message to him, step into the light and be heard. Have some keyboard courage. If you want to say it to him to his face, that's even better. Or maybe the pack mentality has taken over and some people should think about what they say and at whom it's directed.

I used the big blue for solidarity. Next time, go in the swamp with a few fat guys. Don't ask me why.

Best,
Mike
 
cleary said:
Ok, I want you to REALLY dig deep here an think REAAAAAAALY hard about this one...

How much money would you have to pay a professional player to use an aiming system that "doesn't work"?

And if you did somehow pay them enough... how do you plan on recouping those losses? From a DVD????? wow..

Just please, break down the costs...

Stan paid a production company to film, edit and master a dvd. Then paid Discmakers to replicate the dvd. Even charging $40/per, he MIGHT be making $7 or $8 per dvd profit. At this rate, if he sold 1000 copies (guessing he wont) thats about $8k profit that Im sure hes cutting up a piece to Stevie for being in it.

Cuetec sells thousands and thousands of cues all over the world at a much better profit margin and can afford to pay professionals to use their products.

Anyway you look at this, its the most ridiculous thing you could come up with.

Now one more time, if you DID somehow pay them and they were using it, wouldn't their game fall apart if it didn't work?
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Paid to actually use it.... no.

Paid to *say* they use it...

Lou Figueroa
or maybe
they're just friends
 
PocketPoint said:
If I'm Stevie Moore type player, I'm a world class player, but I'm probably not making a great living from pool. I'll agree to be in the dvd and say I use CTE for let's say, $500.

At $40 per dvd, if Stan can sell 13 additional DVD's by using Stevie, then it's worth it.


I AM NOT saying this is what happened. I am saying to be careful about things like this. Just because a pro says he uses some system, doesn't mean it is so.

I'm not saying anything bad about Stevie, I've seen him play in person and he's a top player.
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I've seen him play in person too (Vegas 10Ball Open last year) and he dan't use nothin' that looks like him in Stan's DVD.

Lou Figueroa
wonder why
 
Luxury said:
If pool were big business there would have been a lot of people buying stock in CTE stock and very high hopes for a huge profit. I would imagine after the hyped up CTE/pro one dvd came out and all the reports of the confusion it would be time to sell sell sell and the stock would be plunging about now.

People don't enjoy being confused and wasting money and after so many people are reporting that this is the result the dvd is never going to be as popular as I'm sure Stan imagined.

Sure you can try to read a ton of posts and sort through the posts that actually help understand the system from the posts that make it even more confusing or call Stan during one of his scheduled phone answering sessions and hope he's available. But people aren't going to spend all the money to sign up for all that.

Just my honest opinion from a Naysayer.
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I do believe the yeasayers have lost this one, despite their bestest efforts.

Lou Figueroa
sorry, Joey
 
arcticmonkey said:
I bought the DVD and watched it with an open mind. I was dissatisfied with the overall product. I do believe that CTE has something to offer in terms of game improvement for me but in this DVD, the material was not presented well enough for me to get it.

I would ask for a refund if the product came with a money back guarantee.

Please take this for what it's worth from an open-minded customer.
Click to expand...


What?! No refund on what was advertised to be the greatest thing since sliced bread?!

How about all you yeasayers talk about "integrity " now.

Lou Figueroa
shocked, I say
 
cleary said:
Again, if its BS, why does it work? My pocketing has improved drastically over the past 3 months of switching to my system. I rarely practices and only play about once a week.

My friends laughed when I told them I was switching and tried to explain the system. Now they want me to teach them. Strange...
Click to expand...


Dr. Dave and others (me included) have provided many reasons why it "works."

Lou Figueroa
to a point
 
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