Please read this post from TvMike before trashing his good name and reputation!!!!

F

freedog69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As can be seen from the post below the issues with the PPV were not anything that Mike could have controlled. Please be patient while he sorts this cluster fu#$% from Ustream out. Don't jump to conclusion and damage his good name. Many people work extremely hard to try to bring to life this struggling sport. Be kind...

Regarding issues with todays Bad Blood production... please read and repost, pass along it is important to me.
.by Tvmike Hustlin on Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 1:13am.Regarding issues with todays Bad Blood production... please read and repost, pass along it is important to me. I will go ahead and say without even addressing all the parties involved that it is important to them as well.

Please post and repass or share it on facebook accordingly, a lot of people are upset and I would like to address some of these issues even before we have a "business" meeting about it.
--

Ustream Crew,

Actually this is blizzard of a shit storm to be frank with you guys. I understand that issues can occur but I have a slew and a ton of people who are demanding refunds and who are ravaging my name as a live stream producer. Raking and raping my name through the coals as we speak. I appreciate the compliments on my stream, show, quality especially coming from ustream itself that is an immense compliment. As you can see I REALLY know what I'm doing unfortunately it doesn't matter I might be the best in the country if people can't watch what they paid for essentially all that means absolutely NOTHING. Because they are not getting to see the match as they have been promised to watch.

I seriously would like Ustream to FORMALLY apologize to everyone who bought a PPV through an email sent to those customers. I would like a post by someone from Ustream to this forum. Below... I would like something reasonable sent to me that I can pass on to my viewers as well in a comprehensive explanation how the error with the PPV was solely on your back end. If you take a look at this thread you will understand how BAD this really is. I have people coming after me personally, financially etc when this technical outage and issue has nothing to do with my production and financially has nothing to do with me. Actually I've lost money on my end in hopes to delivering a superior product to everyone to boost my reputation

There is going to be a business meeting amongst the investor, the manager, myself and players and other persons involved on what we do with this. The very least I am to guess that they will request this PPV to be at no charge and then a similar event at a later date to be free as well. The amount of the first streams reputation on this franchise of challenge matches we have planned is severely damaged and majorly financially impacted future in ways we would of have no way of knowing at this point. Please take time to view this forum and collectively come to some conclusion at how you can help me let my viewers know how it can be justified or thoroughly explained so that *I* don't get the heat on my channel, my production or the other events we may produce.

Thank you for your serious consideration in this matter and remedy.

Here is a link to the forum I am referencing...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=226691

Mike Warden
 
Thanks for posting this freedog...I hope that this helps bring some civility to the issue and that people understand that Mike is attempting to fix this.

It seems from the post that Mike does in fact treat his customers as his #1 priority. I hope that all involved can show a little patience while this works out and give Mike the opportunity to rectify the wrongs.

Carl
 
I think the issue was that Mike was trying so hard to fix the stream that he did not have time to converse with his audience. What was he going to tell them the problem was with Ustream and I don't think he got to the root of the issue until well after the problems started. If Mike did not care deeply about his audience that why would he be trying so hard to brin everyone the great FREE streams he has brought in the past. To me the answer is easy He LOVES this sport and wants to help it grow.... Thanks Mike for all your efforts and in the end I hope Ustream does the right thing.
 
Could he have let everyone see the free stream with no issues the way Jcin on TAR did when he had issues with the paid stream on the final day of the Earl vs SVB?
 
It's a shame that technology isn't all that it should be.

I remember a year or two at the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship in Virginia, the same thing happened with the streaming, and it wasn't Ustream. Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats and Rob Sykora of BCn were there, but the Internet connection at the Conference Center sucked.

People paid and were pissed off, creating numerous threads on the forums, just like this instance.

I realize it's not fair to lose 25 bucks when you pay you hard-earned money. That's a given. The organizers who put on this event with Johnny and Earl, however, are stuck much more, especially TVMike. I am sure he was doing everything within his power to make things right, but his hands are tied of the connection isn't powerful enough.

For the folks who believe it should be aired for free today, well, how can TVMike air it for free if he can't even get it to air right for cost? :p

I'm sure there are many people who were a part of the organization of this event who are really bummed out, the same as those who paid their $25.

It's a shame this happened. Maybe the organizers should make a limited edition of the DVDs of this match, say 150 total, have them signed, autographed, and each numbered 1 to 150, and sell them for $250 each. If done professionally, it could help to make expenses for the organizers.

They should not air the finals and sell the DVD set as a limited edition of 150 copies. The $25 should be refunded to all who couldn't watch. That's a given.
 
JAM said:
It's a shame that technology isn't all that it should be.

I remember a year or two at the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship in Virginia, the same thing happened with the streaming, and it wasn't Ustream. Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats and Rob Sykora of BCn were there, but the Internet connection at the Conference Center sucked.

People paid and were pissed off, creating numerous threads on the forums, just like this instance.

I realize it's not fair to lose 25 bucks when you pay you hard-earned money. That's a given. The organizers who put on this event with Johnny and Earl, however, are stuck much more, especially TVMike. I am sure he was doing everything within his power to make things right, but his hands are tied of the connection isn't powerful enough.

For the folks who believe it should be aired for free today, well, how can TVMike air it for free if he can't even get it to air right for cost? :p

I'm sure there are many people who were a part of the organization of this event who are really bummed out, the same as those who paid their $25.

It's a shame this happened. Maybe the organizers should make a limited edition of the DVDs of this match, say 150 total, have them signed, autographed, and each numbered 1 to 150, and sell them for $250 each. If done professionally, it could help to make expenses for the organizers.

They should not air the finals and sell the DVD set as a limited edition of 150 copies. The $25 should be refunded to all who couldn't watch. That's a given.
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Couple things come to mind.

Mike said the issue was not with him getting the stream to Ustream. The issue was Ustream sending it out to the PPV customers. I heard him talking later and he said basically they were having server issues with the dedicated PPV servers which leads me to believe switching to a free stream may be viable.

I paid the $25 and started watching at 7-7 in the second set and had no issues. So I dont want a refund. If they decide to air the second day for free I would be cool with that and wouldnt ask for a refund. I mean how could I? :D Been there done that. I still get to see what I paid for.

But if they dont air the second day I certainly will file a dispute and seek a refund. I also am not going to be buying any $250 DVD's.

Also it seems the second day by itself is $25 also which leads me to believe they are going to get very few if any buyers based on no price break and the issues from Saturday.

So based on those things the only thing not showing the finals would do is ensure everyone who bought would seek a refund. Whereas now they have some (at least one) customers who will not seek a refund (assuming day two works in some fashion). If it were me and it was my call I would do it free and hope to recover some good will, bite the bullet and go find a wall to punch. Sometimes you just take a big kick in the nuts.

If free is not an option then I would be banging on every ustream admin and customer service email address and phone number I could get my hands on to make sure they got day two straightened out. I have done this on a Sunday before. Back when I had the President of Ustreams cell phone number. It worked pretty good then but they are a different animal now. Getting a human on a Sunday probably isnt easy. So it would make me a bit nervous to hold out on faith alone that it will work.

Then if I could prove Saturdays issues were ustreams fault and they are not willing to compensate me for the lost revenue in some way I would be consulting an attorney.

A variation of this very thing happened to me a few weeks ago. It was truly amazing how understanding the vast majority of people were. Even the people who were justifiably upset and angry were very civil when I responded to their messages. The people who buy streams for the most part understand that sometimes things happen and are very forgiving if you do your best to try and make them happy in some way. Hopefully Mike and company can do that.

Now I wanna watch Earl run 200 and out cussing the crowd, table, babies, unicorns, and potato chips all the way.
 
Somehow I am reminded of Kevin Trudeau. He poured millions of dollars into pool, trying to create something positive. He was misinformed from the start by his "handlers," thus ended up losing millions of dollars. He's still a bad guy today in some pool circles. He tried, lost millions, he failed, and he's a pool pariah.

In this instance with TVMike, there is no doubt in my mind that he is going to be stuck big time, as are those who hosted this event. I'm not sure who put up the 10 dimes, but they're stuck, too. Somebody had to pay for Johnny, Shawn, Nick, and Earl's expenses as well.

I realize losing $25 sucks a big weenie when you're promised to see an action match like Johnny vs. Earl, with all the hype via threads and posts that occurred in advance.

The only thing I am saying is these organizers tried, and it just didn't turn out the way it was anticipated due to technology.

I think there is no question they will have to refund the 25 bucks to all those who paid.

One thought is they could offer a raffle for a high-end pool product, maybe an autographed banner of this event, a personalized DVD set with autographs, or a cue case or a cue stick. The organizers could ask those who did pay the 25 bucks if they would want their names to be entered in a raffle for $25 for one of the above-referenced prizes or somethign similar.

This is just one entrepreneurial thought I have at 7:40 a.m. If those who paid their $25 did not want to enter the raffle, then they could ask for their refund.
 
JAM said:
Somehow I am reminded of Kevin Trudeau. He poured millions of dollars into pool, trying to create something positive. He was misinformed from the start by his "handlers," thus ended up losing millions of dollars. He's still a bad guy today in some pool circles. He tried, lost millions, he failed, and he's a pool pariah.

In this instance with TVMike, there is no doubt in my mind that he is going to be stuck big time, as are those who hosted this event. I'm not sure who put up the 10 dimes, but they're stuck, too. Somebody had to pay for Johnny, Shawn, Nick, and Earl's expenses as well.

I realize losing $25 sucks a big weenie when you're promised to see an action match like Johnny vs. Earl, with all the hype via threads and posts that occurred in advance.

The only thing I am saying is these organizers tried, and it just didn't turn out the way it was anticipated due to technology.

I think there is no question they will have to refund the 25 bucks to all those who paid.

One thought is they could offer a raffle for a high-end pool product, maybe an autographed banner of this event, a personalized DVD set with autographs, or a cue case or a cue stick. The organizers could ask those who did pay the 25 bucks if they would want their names to be entered in a raffle for $25 for one of the above-referenced prizes or somethign similar.

This is just one entrepreneurial thought I have at 7:40 a.m. If those who paid their $25 did not want to enter the raffle, then they could ask for their refund.
Click to expand...

The reason Kevin Trudeau was villified is that he lied, "fed ex didnt deliver the checks" is what I remember, no one likes a liar. If he would have been upfront the IPT would prolly still be around.

As far as $250 dvd's, Im not sure who is going to but them.
Maybe $20 dvds, at that point how many are you really gonna sell
I think this whole production shows how tough it is to make money from pool, its sad but its true
 
jamesroberts said:
The reason Kevin Trudeau was villified is that he lied, "fed ex didnt deliver the checks" is what I remember, no one likes a liar. If he would have been upfront the IPT would prolly still be around.
Click to expand...

There are some who do feel exactly like you do, but there is another school of thought that Trudeau did pour millions into pool and created the best venues that pool players had ever competed in. Some of those competitors don't feel that same way about Kevin Trudeau as others.

As one example, he did "gift" the BCA Hall of Famers with $30,000 each just for showing up in Orlando in December 2005 as well as a bye in the tournament, which was won by Efren, of course. Francisco Bustamante, who came in third, I believe it was, told me that it was the most money he had ever won at any pool tournament in his life, which, subject to check, was about 80 dimes.

I don't want to turn this into an IPT/Kevin Trudeau thread, but I did want to illustrate the contrast of how one entity can lose millions of dollars when they try to do something good for pool and can end up being the bad guy. In fact, I know of two unnamed entities who lost their entire savings when trying to create something positive for pool. Their heart was in the right place, but they failed. Because they failed, they're outcasts and considered no good, and today they're broke.

jamesroberts said:
As far as $250 dvd's, Im not sure who is going to but them.
Maybe $20 dvds, at that point how many are you really gonna sell
I think this whole production shows how tough it is to make money from pool, its sad but its true
Click to expand...

I only suggested a $250 DVD set, James, as a way for the organizers to recoup their expenses. I had thought that if they tailored them to be personally autographed, as well as had a few other things thrown into the gift package, like a poster or pool memorabilia, e.g., cue stick, cue case, posters, photographs, et cetera, it just might be worth 25 bucks to somebody as a raffle gift.

I also thought that if $250 DVD were each numbered as a limited edition, it might add value to them; thus, the cost of $250.

I realize most people in the mainstream pool culture wouldn't spend $250 for a pool item, but there's a few collectors out there who would. Limiting the DVD set would give it value, if done correctly. :)
 
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Good Advice!

JCIN said:
Couple things come to mind.

Mike said the issue was not with him getting the stream to Ustream. The issue was Ustream sending it out to the PPV customers. I heard him talking later and he said basically they were having server issues with the dedicated PPV servers which leads me to believe switching to a free stream may be viable.

I paid the $25 and started watching at 7-7 in the second set and had no issues. So I dont want a refund. If they decide to air the second day for free I would be cool with that and wouldnt ask for a refund. I mean how could I? :D Been there done that. I still get to see what I paid for.

But if they dont air the second day I certainly will file a dispute and seek a refund. I also am not going to be buying any $250 DVD's.

Also it seems the second day by itself is $25 also which leads me to believe they are going to get very few if any buyers based on no price break and the issues from Saturday.

So based on those things the only thing not showing the finals would do is ensure everyone who bought would seek a refund. Whereas now they have some (at least one) customers who will not seek a refund (assuming day two works in some fashion). If it were me and it was my call I would do it free and hope to recover some good will, bite the bullet and go find a wall to punch. Sometimes you just take a big kick in the nuts.

If free is not an option then I would be banging on every ustream admin and customer service email address and phone number I could get my hands on to make sure they got day two straightened out. I have done this on a Sunday before. Back when I had the President of Ustreams cell phone number. It worked pretty good then but they are a different animal now. Getting a human on a Sunday probably isnt easy. So it would make me a bit nervous to hold out on faith alone that it will work.

Then if I could prove Saturdays issues were ustreams fault and they are not willing to compensate me for the lost revenue in some way I would be consulting an attorney.

A variation of this very thing happened to me a few weeks ago. It was truly amazing how understanding the vast majority of people were. Even the people who were justifiably upset and angry were very civil when I responded to their messages. The people who buy streams for the most part understand that sometimes things happen and are very forgiving if you do your best to try and make them happy in some way. Hopefully Mike and company can do that.

Now I wanna watch Earl run 200 and out cussing the crowd, table, babies, unicorns, and potato chips all the way.
Click to expand...

......"roll with the punches," that's what Justin is suggesting here, and that seems like good and very practical advice in this situation! To boot, Justin's backed up the advice he's offering here, "DOING" exactly what he's described as a good solution to this problem. People who get these streams, "ARE," usually very understanding of the technical difficulties involved.

The unfortunate thing is, the new trend looks like, everyone with a video camera and the U-stream "connection", is going to be trying to LIVE stream events. As Justin can attest, it just ain't that easy to do PPV!

One thing is for sure, the technical end of PPV Live streaming is complicated. However, with money on the line, it's more difficult to bite the bullet and learn to master the political end of handling unhappy PPV customers, when something screws up!

I sure hope Mike is able to follow through with the broadcast today! Best of luck with the bigger issue, too, "maintaining the goodwill of your PPV customers!":thumbup:
 
Lawrence Cho?

jamesroberts said:
The reason Kevin Trudeau was villified is that he lied, "fed ex didnt deliver the checks" is what I remember, no one likes a liar. If he would have been upfront the IPT would prolly still be around.

As far as $250 dvd's, Im not sure who is going to but them.
Maybe $20 dvds, at that point how many are you really gonna sell
I think this whole production shows how tough it is to make money from pool, its sad but its true
Click to expand...

.....every time Tudeau's name is mentioned and addendum should be placed somewhere nearby, that reads something like this, "Originator of Pools pyramid scheme built upon qualifier money, with the hope of selling this (now illegal) concoction to Laurence Cho for internet gambling." Anybody else notice, when Congress made internet gambling illegal, Trudeau failed miserably to pay off promptly, in the next tournament in Reno?:cool:
 
Zbotiman said:
As Justin can attest, it just ain't that easy to do PPV!
Click to expand...
Live production for paying customers is not for the faint of heart. I still learn every time we do one.

The saying "The devil is in the details" was never more apt. Worst part is in streaming you can do everything right and still fail.
 
Luxury said:
Could he have let everyone see the free stream with no issues the way Jcin on TAR did when he had issues with the paid stream on the final day of the Earl vs SVB?
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In another thread you asked the same question & I posted the following response.



This is where Mike messed up. For a short while he did switch to free streaming during the 8 ball match. A few whiners wanted to know why it was free when they paid for it but the majority of us saw the bigger picture which was "so what, we get to see what we paid for so we're happy". Had they continued to do that, the post count on this debacle would be half of what it is right now.

I was in full screen mode the few times the stream was working so I didn't see everything in chat but I specifically recall Mike saying at least 3 times "I can't" when asked to switch back over to free streaming. He didn't offer an explanation but we already knew that it could physically be done so we're left to believe that "can't" actually meant "won't". Since no explanation was given, we're left to assume that means that he's holding out to get more ticket sales.

At that point the bulk of the ticket sales were already made so ultimately those of us that paid had to suffer on the off chance that he might make a few extra bucks. The streaming issues might not have been his fault but his customer service issues were all his fault & that is why I will never buy one of his ppv matches again.
 
JCIN said:
Live production for paying customers is not for the faint of heart. I still learn every time we do one.

The saying "The devil is in the details" was never more apt. Worst part is in streaming you can do everything right and still fail.
Click to expand...

So basically, paying for a pool PPV is a "crap shoot"? Anybody forking up their "hard earned money" is just taking a gamble?

I haven't paid for a PPV yet. I think I'll wait for all the bugs to get worked out before I take this "gamble".

Maniac
 
I never saw a price mentioned for the DVD's until this thread. They actually think that people are going to pay $250 for this DVD?? Especially in this economy? Even when the economy was good they wouldn't get that kknd of money. LOL
 
UrackmIcrackm said:
I never saw a price mentioned for the DVD's until this thread. They actually think that people are going to pay $250 for this DVD?? Especially in this economy? Even when the economy was good they wouldn't get that kknd of money. LOL
Click to expand...

Uh, it was *me* who *suggested* an entrepreneurial idea for a limited set of DVDs.

Nobody affilliated with this event stated they were going to sell them for $250.

I understand everybody wants to tar-and-feather the organizers of this event, but it's not fair to state that they were trying to sell the DVDs for $250 when it was my suggestion on this thread, not theirs. In fact, they probably don't even know about the suggestion of $250 DVDs.
 
JAM said:
Uh, it was *me* who *suggested* an entrepreneurial idea for a limited set of DVDs.

Nobody affilliated with this event stated they were going to sell them for $250.

I understand everybody wants to tar-and-feather the organizers of this event, but it's not fair to state that they were trying to sell the DVDs for $250 when it was my suggestion on this thread, not theirs. In fact, they probably don't even know about the suggestion of $250 DVDs.
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Thanks for the clarification. One of my personal rules for posting is to read every post in a thread before making a post. Admittedly, I skimmed over one of your posts, saw mention of the IPT and didn't bother reading anymore. I went against my own rule and got what I deserved. :embarrassed2:

For the record, I am not looking to tar and feather the organizers of the event. I simply have issue with the lack of customer service skills of the streamer. I was one of the very few patient people yesterday but by the end of it, I too had lost my patience and rightfully (to me) so.
 
I'm sure Mike certainly did not want this production to go down as it has. And he is likely correct the problem is through Ustream. However there is no need to use the ustream PPV crap and get raped by their fees when you can simply pass the room, block unregistered guests, and have a skilled IRC moderator tell who is entering by username matching paid by paypal. I have said this on numerous occasions and the only one who has actually used it is bigtruck. If Mike knew all he thinks he does the problem should have been set right before it started.

For anyone else who streams if you do not understand what I am talking about you are welcome to shoot me a pvt and I will be happy to explain if you would like to listen.
 
The free stream option would have gave the buyers what they paid for and the free watchers would have seen what you/Mike were offering for the next go round.

There has got to be a better provider for PPV than ustream if they take 50% of the revenue ouch and you have no control of refunds.

Good luck Mike I know you love the game and are trying to get it out there for a larger audience, work with your customers pay attention to how TAR has handled there issues in the past they took responsibility and learned from their mistakes. Make a decision on how you will handle this current adversity and communicate directly with your customers. Good luck I know you have a great product the question is can you get it in front of your viewers.
 
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