What do you think of Southwest Cues?

leminhnam said:
out of curiosity, how's about deflection of SW cues? low or high? please enlighten me.
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The purpose of the Parabolic Taper designed by David Kersenbrock and used by Southwest and others was designed to increase the power generated when the cue ball is struck. David developed the design by using the principles of how a Parabolic Curve generates power.

I have never tested deflection using a Southwest cue or any cue that uses a Parabolic Taper (Butt Alone), but I would assume that deflection generated would have more to do with the cues shaft. From all I have learned over the years deflection is generated mostly by end mass of the shaft, how much a cues butt effects this I have no idea.

However, Southwest uses solid shafts that are not cored at the ferrule end like Low Deflection shafts.

JIMO
 
South West cues

I've owned many, and loved them all. Some of them I've just loved more than others. I have 2 now, a Franklin maple/ebony, and a fancy birdseye/purpleheart with scrimshawed ivory. Anxiously awaiting the mailman tomorrow who should be bringing the Pau Ferro '97 unused cue I just bought from Greg Short here on AZ. It's one of the few cues I feel like I can buy without hitting with it, and not worry whether I'll like it. My favorites are the Alves cues, and the Pau Ferro cues, and I take out the rubber bumpers. Sounds weird, but it changes the hit. I think Tommy Kennedy does that too. The deflection ranges from medium to medium-low as compared to a low deflection shaft, not as low as a predator, but a much more solid hit. Full disclosure-I haven't owned any that were made in the last 5-7 years, but I certainly would. I've always made money on all of the cues when I sold them-and usually regretted it-and my only issue is that sometimes a cue gets so valuable that you can't play with it everyday no matter how much you like it. If you haven't figured it out by now, like Justin, I'm a big fan. Some say they are overpriced, and they do cost alot, but let me ask you this. I have a very fancy South West-ivory inlays, scrimshaw,etc.-that I bought in the late 90s for $2750. I could have bought a Meucci or a Schon or a nice Mcdermott for $1200 which would now be worth $500. Which one cost more? That's the great thing about cues. They're one of the few toys on earth that, if you buy the right ones, you can own the best there is and it costs you NOTHING. The value actually goes up. Anyway, thats just my opinion, and I'm going to go sit by the mailbox:)
 
manwon said:
I have to disagree with you here Davids Cues are all custom, if not for David who by the way invented the Parabolic Taper South West Cues would be nothing like they are today. In addition the entire design used in South West Cues including the way they are Cored, Assembled, and the pin used are all directly due to David Kersenbrock in fact little if anything is Southwests design is theirs alone.

Now David has never marketed himself well, and David certain allowed Jerry to use his design. While Jerry and others including Omega DPK, Bender Custom Cues, and Ed Young have been very successful without Davids brilliant mind I don't think they would be where they are today.

JIMO
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Craig,
I don't disagree with what you say but Southwest got it's reputation around Jerry when David was doing design work for them. At least, that's what Laurie told me, personally. Jerry, Laurie, and company built the cues and marketed them as Southwest.
Laurie also told me than people were ordering cues as Brock, Kersenbrock, etc. for some time before the Southwest name became well known.
I've only seen a few cues made by David alone and they were very plain and very, very stiff hitting, much more so than any SW I've ever hit or anything else David was associated with.
 
Great cues. I have only handled ones made by Jerry. His calendar cue is a personal favorite of cues I have seen in pictures.

Now, I see them as over priced and in a style I don't care for at a high cost. I think other makers cues are a better value for me.

Still, I think if a person wants a Southwest, they should get one.
 
I've owned several over the years and I've liked every one of them. However, They are IMO reasonable if you can get them from SW..but over priced in the secondary market
 
I tell you what I think of MY PERSONAL Southwest hits like, looks like, etc., when I get it a few years from now. If I am not totally blown away I will sell it.:D
 
marshallpools said:
what change means?
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After you put off the bumper it sounds *more harder*. The bumber absorbs a bit.

Also made it with my Mordt and a Frey Sneaky. Next cue will be a bumperless cue. Was also surprised after i heard that from a guy- but bc he s a totally crazy cue-a-holic who also builds cues together with his buddy i gave it a try- it definitley changes it :)
But you ll have still to aim :D
 
manwon said:
The purpose of the Parabolic Taper designed by David Kersenbrock and used by Southwest and others was designed to increase the power generated when the cue ball is struck. David developed the design by using the principles of how a Parabolic Curve generates power.

I have never tested deflection using a Southwest cue or any cue that uses a Parabolic Taper (Butt Alone), but I would assume that deflection generated would have more to do with the cues shaft. From all I have learned over the years deflection is generated mostly by end mass of the shaft, how much a cues butt effects this I have no idea.

However, Southwest uses solid shafts that are not cored at the ferrule end like Low Deflection shafts.

JIMO
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Agree !
The LD deflection itself is a neverending discussion- but you shown up the most important thing- the end-mass. For sure there some other points, but nothing like the end-mass will have the greatest effect on it!

lg
Ingo
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
I posted the link to IndyQ as a reference because NOT all Southwest's weigh almost 20 OUNCES. I do not understand why you want to trash Roy for wanting to turn a profit on a Cue he owns that is in high demand, and you have zero idea what he paid for the Cue, like that matter as it is Roy's to sell at the price he wants.

Most of the Southwest's Roy has for sale, he buys from an owner who want a profit over the retail price they paid. Than Roy wants to also turn a profit to pay his bill, and hopefully stay in business.

No one is forcing anyone to buy from Roy, and Roy is free to sell to who he wishes, and say not to who he wish not to deal with.
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The thing is, Roy not only over charges for his SWCs but he is an As-hole to boot. I'll let you in on something, the reason Roy buys his SWC from the secondary market is because South West found out what an ass he has been in the past to his customers and the flat refuse to sell him a SWC.;)
 
Pushout said:
Craig,
I don't disagree with what you say but Southwest got it's reputation around Jerry when David was doing design work for them. At least, that's what Laurie told me, personally. Jerry, Laurie, and company built the cues and marketed them as Southwest.
Laurie also told me than people were ordering cues as Brock, Kersenbrock, etc. for some time before the Southwest name became well known.
I've only seen a few cues made by David alone and they were very plain and very, very stiff hitting, much more so than any SW I've ever hit or anything else David was associated with.
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Like I said Jerry marketed Davids design, Pin, style, taper (Parabolic) and his construction technique and he did a great job, but without David while Southwest Cues would still exist they certainly would be nothing like they are today.

Do a little research on what David was already doing when Jerry met him. David pretty much designed the shaft cutting machines that are being used by Southwest and everyone else today. David developed and build an Optical Pantograph Machine, and I could go on, as far as him not building anything but plain cues again do a little research, few have equaled his fancier designs especially in the days when CNC was not what it is today.

No disrespect, and I am a big fan of Southwest Cues along with the Franklin's and their contributions. But David is often forgotten by far to many, and with all of Davids Medical issues he still has made major contributions to Cue building and many Famous Cue Builders.


JIMO
 
manwon said:
Like I said Jerry marketed Davids design, Pin, style, taper (Parabolic) and his construction technique and he did a great job, but without David while Southwest Cues would still exist they certainly would be nothing like they are today.

Do a little research on what David was already doing when Jerry met him. David pretty much designed the shaft cutting machines that are being used by Southwest and everyone else today. David developed and build an Optical Pantograph Machine, and I could go on, as far as him not building anything but plain cues again do a little research, few have equaled his fancier designs especially in the days when CNC was not what it is today.

No disrespect, and I am a big fan of Southwest Cues along with the Franklin's and their contributions. But David is often forgotten by far to many, and with all of Davids Medical issues he still has made major contributions to Cue building and many Famous Cue Builders.


JIMO
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Again, I'm not disagreeing here. And, I only stated that the only Kersenbrock cues I've seen were plain, I in no way implied that was all David made. I'm well aware that he made a lot of different cues, I just haven't seen them.
 
Good cue's overall. The one's I had all played well and were very similar in feel. Does anyone know how they are doing since they raised their price's? It seem's as though the market is not what it was a few years ago but that is understandable when you could buy a cue for $1500 and sell it for $2000+ the same day.
 
All I know...

is that now I am playing with a Franklin Pre-date wrapless and I have stopped blaming the equipment.:grin:
 
jmurphy said:
The thing is, Roy not only over charges for his SWCs but he is an As-hole to boot. I'll let you in on something, the reason Roy buys his SWC from the secondary market is because South West found out what an ass he has been in the past to his customers and the flat refuse to sell him a SWC.;)
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Roy is a very unique fellow, and I tried once to make a deal with a Merry Widow Bert Schrager I owned & Cash for a Mike Capone Six Pointer Roy Owned.

We could not come to terms, Roy is tough to deal with because he wanted to get the best of the deal, and I too wanted the best of the deal. We found no middle ground, and that end the deal.

There are a lot of Forum Members who think Roy is O.K., and other Forum Members who think Roy is not O.K.

IMHO I do not know what you mean by over charge, but IMHO Roy is allowed to charge, or ask his price like any seller for a item he is selling. As a buyer you don't have to pay his price, or deal with him.

But I see zero reason to trash Roy who is trying his hardest to make a living off of his business IndyQ.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Roy is a very unique fellow, and I tried once to make a deal with a Merry Widow Bert Schrager I owned & Cash for a Mike Capone Six Pointer Roy Owned.

We could not come to terms, Roy is tough to deal with because he wanted to get the best of the deal, and I too wanted the best of the deal. We found no middle ground, and that end the deal.

There are a lot of Forum Members who think Roy is O.K., and other Forum Members who think Roy is not O.K.

IMHO I do not know what you mean by over charge, but IMHO Roy is allowed to charge, or ask his price like any seller for a item he is selling. As a buyer you don't have to pay his price, or deal with him.

But I see zero reason to trash Roy who is trying his hardest to make a living off of his business IndyQ.
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Roy has the right to charge what ever he wishes for his property (in this case South West Cues) Most people on this forum have a fairly good grasp of what the current fair market value is on many cues including most SWC. I don't take kindly to someone (who in this case is Roy) trying to gouge me on pricing, it insults my intelligence. On two different occasions now Roy went from Mr. Nice Guy to a First Class JERK, once over some questions on some cases and the second time when inquiring about his South West Cues.
The reason I trash him is because he has earned the criticism and since referrals are a big part of anyone business he should learn there are consequences to his actions.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
And that is your right to talk trash.
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That's the whole point. If he was respectful then I would have simply said he was a nice guy but we could not come to an agreement on our business interaction. However he was a total dick, so I have every right to make my opinion known so others may or may not factor what I have said about Roy in whether or not they decide to do business with the man. I am sorry if you disagree but business owners should think before they speak because you never know if being a dick to a customer will cost you business in the future.
 
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