Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

Sorry, this makes no sense.

Pool was much more popular a long time ago, when people actually played those games with huge numbers... balkline, straight pool, etc. Back when every town had a pool hall, opponents were routinely glued to their chairs for hours... and spectators filled the room to see it.

Nowadays, the games and the rules have all been changed to give the opponent more opportunities, yet pool is less popular. Go figure. When a miracle high run does happen you're seeing something exceptional and exciting, even the amateur knows a straight pool run of 500 or a 9b 10 pack is something miraculous. They aren't hoping it ends so they can see the other guy shoot. They WANT to see it go on.

If you crank the numbers, probably both players in typical pro level 9b matches AVERAGE at least one chance per game. Like clockwork. It doesn't change anything. There's an occasional burst, a 3-pack here and there, but 5-packs and up are pretty rare. Pool isn't unpopular because of some rare thing that occasionally happens... the average ESPNer probably doesn't even realize a 5-pack is humanly possible.

Pool is just unexciting to watch because nothing about it looks superhuman. Most of us can't dunk or hit a golf ball 300 yards or throw a 50 yard touchdown pass, that looks superhuman and talented. But all of us have made any pool shot you see on TV. Pool isn't easy but when played well it looks easy and therefore bores people.
 
CreeDo said:
Sorry, this makes no sense.

Pool was much more popular a long time ago, when people actually played those games with huge numbers... balkline, straight pool, etc. Back when every town had a pool hall, opponents were routinely glued to their chairs for hours... and spectators filled the room to see it.

Nowadays, the games and the rules have all been changed to give the opponent more opportunities, yet pool is less popular. Go figure. When a miracle high run does happen you're seeing something exceptional and exciting, even the amateur knows a straight pool run of 500 or a 9b 10 pack is something miraculous. They aren't hoping it ends so they can see the other guy shoot. They WANT to see it go on.

If you crank the numbers, probably both players in typical pro level 9b matches AVERAGE at least one chance per game. Like clockwork. It doesn't change anything. There's an occasional burst, a 3-pack here and there, but 5-packs and up are pretty rare. Pool isn't unpopular because of some rare thing that occasionally happens... the average ESPNer probably doesn't even realize a 5-pack is humanly possible.

Pool is just unexciting to watch because nothing about it looks superhuman. Most of us can't dunk or hit a golf ball 300 yards or throw a 50 yard touchdown pass, that looks superhuman and talented. But all of us have made any pool shot you see on TV. Pool isn't easy but when played well it looks easy and therefore bores people.
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The only problem I have with this is that I remember the first time I seen a SL 9 in the APA play. I didn't care about pool until that night, and so many of the other people that were in the bar.

Everyone, who couldn't play a lick were completely mesmerized by the gracefullness and effortless play
 
CreeDo said:
Sorry, this makes no sense.

There's an occasional burst, a 3-pack here and there, but 5-packs and up are pretty rare. Pool isn't unpopular because of some rare thing that occasionally happens... the average ESPNer probably doesn't even realize a 5-pack is humanly possible.
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I am not thinking about ESPN or the pros. I am thinking about our sport.

I sited the worst case scenarios as a result of the structure of our games. If I compare the structure of all other successful INTERACTIVE sports to the structure of our games, I can see a stark difference. The issue exists even if each player gets 5 chances each game.

If a player pockets a ball, he is entitled to shoot again at another ball. In the meantime, the opponent cannot participate in any way. This is not a recipe for viable competition. There is not one INTERACTIVE sport with this structure. I can't come up with one.

I have often wondered if people instinctively sense an unfairness and subconsciously back away as a result.
 
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Paul Schofield said:
It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. The combination of these three together is a recipe for absolute failure. All sports know that this is unacceptable. No successful legitimate sport has this structure. This current structure of pool mirrors a video game, not a sport. Play Pac Man and make your opponent sit and watch you clear screens. Play pool and make your opponent sit and watch you run balls/racks.

Take note of the following: a 240,000 straight rail billiard run, a run of 622 balkline billiards, a run of 31 three cushion billiards, a run of 4137 points in English Billiards, a 526 ball run in straight pool, an 18 pack in bar-box nine-ball, an 11 pack in nine-ball on a big-table. Where are these games now? Are these examples of successful games with viable futures? All these games are evidence of failed attempts to come to terms with the “FATAL FLAW”. Players get good so let’s make the game harder. Is Ten Ball with tiny pockets the answer to improving interest in the game? I don’t think so.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, bowling, and other successful sports have written into their rules, regular and predictable opportunities for players/teams to participate. This makes for viable competition and result in popular successful sports. Pool needs to look inward at its structure and look for ways to do the same. The fix would send pool’s evolution in an entirely different direction. Evolution takes a long time and pool is light years away from being ready for prime time. If the “FATAL FLAW” was fixed, I think it is very possible that over time, one new game would emerge that would have the broad based appeal needed so that pool could join all the other successful sports.
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u have to love pool/ respect the game of pool, to watch pool. its not appreciated for the talent as much as many sports. i think reality tv would be good for pool. and not any scripted crap.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
That's true in theory, but how often does that come even semi-close to happening in reality? Maybe the 150 and out in 14.1 and that doesn't happen that often. And that is taken care of with the round robin format that is used often in straight pool tournaments. It is far more the norm in a 9 or 10 Ball race for both players to have sufficient chances to seize command.

And yes, two players can both play very well and one good or bad roll can decide the outcome. That's how most sporting events are decided when two players play equally well, it comes down to one or two little things, like sinking the 60 foot putt or holing out from the fairway, or the stroke in tennis that hits the net and leaks over, or the grounder right at the third baseman that hits the bag and scoots to the corner for a base clearing double instead of a double play, or the pass that's tipped at the line of scrimmage yet makes it to a different receiver for a touchdown. Very often in any sport where both sides play equal it will come down to something little or lucky. These things happen in all sports it's just that usually one side plays better than the other so the outcome is not affected, and this is true in pool too.
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Go back to the original post's premise then think about each set of a match . . .
 
Paul Schofield said:
I am not thinking about ESPN or the pros. I am thinking about our sport.

I sited the worst case scenarios as a result of the structure of our games. If I compare the structure of all other successful INTERACTIVE sports to the structure of our games, I can see a stark difference. The issue exists even if each player gets 5 chances each game.

If a player pockets a ball, he is entitled to shoot again at another ball. In the meantime, the opponent cannot participate in any way. This is not a recipe for viable competition. There is not one INTERACTIVE sport with this structure. I can't come up with one.

I have often wondered if people instinctively sense an unfairness and subconsciously back away as a result.
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My opinion is that you are over-thinking this whole "interactive" thing. Pool is a beautiful game because IT IS UNIQUE and NOT like other "interactive" sports. There is not one other sport with this structure (your words), thank God!!! We have a game played by more persons worldwide than any other game imaginable. I'm still trying to figure out why in the hell everybody's always wanting to "fix" it? Ain't a damn thing wrong with it.

And.....what the heck do YOU plan on doing for it???

Maniac
 
crosseyedjoe said:
Go back to the original post's premise then think about each set of a match . . .
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I'm not sure what your point is here. The premise of the original post is this:

"Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence."

What I'm saying is this is theoretical more than it is reality. It VERY rarely happens, and certainly not enough that pool has lost its appeal because of it. Let me give you an analogy. The way baseball rules are written theoretically it is possible that a game will never end and neither team will ever win. I doubt baseball would have the following it does if this was its reputation. But it so rarely happens that a super long extra inning game is exciting rather than boring and actually adds to its appeal when it does happen. It gets talked about rather than becoming the downfall of the game. I think pool is similar. If a guy is getting close to running out a set with his opponent frozen in his chair the whole match, the crowd would flock to that table to witness history. On the rare occasions it does happen it is special and is something fans don't want to miss.
 
Until this past year, the MOST SUCCESSFUL sport in the country (NFL, duh) decided it's overtime games as "sudden death". Meaning that if the score is tied at the end of regulation, the first team to score in overtime wins. Whether or not the other team had a chance to score as well. Winning the coin flip usually meant winning the game, as all the team had to do was drive the field far enough for their field goal kicker to make a reasonable kick from. And that's what teams would do, they wouldn't even try for the end zone.

This dynamic was in place for a very long time, and is only now being tweaked, and if I remember correctly, only for playoff games. So 16 regular season games can be ended with one team not having a chance to score. In the MOST POPULAR sport in the country.
 
I think it'll take a very charasmatic person with a love for the game to bring people back to it.Look at football in the U.S.A. very popular,but in every other country soccer is there football,and it just hasn't caught on here,and not for lack of trying.Pool needs an ambassador that everyone can get behind.
 
NineballBEN said:
I think it'll take a very charasmatic person with a love for the game to bring people back to it.Look at football in the U.S.A. very popular,but in every other country soccer is there football,and it just hasn't caught on here,and not for lack of trying.Pool needs an ambassador that everyone can get behind.
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But who? Mike Sigel is a name most of the older players know and has a reputation well rooted in Hollywood and pool tournaments as well as pool promotions.

If there is an ambassador it has to be something advertisers can sell, somebody with a name, otherwise its just a sales guy with a pitch.

Kevin Trudeau could've been a great ambassador to pool and non-pool types. Mike Sigel is a great choice because of his popularity from being on the road and in Hollywood. Other than that the players are just players, maybe there are some exceptional players but none with the established history of Mike Sigel.
 
I doubt an appealing personality will significantly help with where pool is right now. When Tiger came on the scene in golf he had a huge impact on the popularity of the game. He made more money for everyone, players included, because his presence led to a substantial increase in the PGA Tour's TV contract at renewal time. But keep in mind that golf was already doing very well, had significant mass appeal at the time and plenty of exposure including a major network TV deal plus it's own dedicated cable channel. And besides, the thing that Tiger really had going for him was not his personality, but his greatness. People are attracted to greatness. But in any event, even if the great one pool player came along, the game just doesn't have the exposure necessary for one person to have the huge impact Tiger did.

Think Bobby Fischer. There's a game that was largely ignored in the U.S. When he came along beating everyone, all chess got out of it was a temporary blip on the radar screen and not much more. It didn't last and never really had much of an impact on the game's mass appeal when looking back on it.
 
The ambassador idea is worth running with, but what could they do that people aren't doing already?
 
Comments

People go to play or watch Pool because:

1) It is a cheap date in today's current conditions.
2) The allure of gambling, especially high-stakes gambling.
3) It can be a pretty social thing to do.

Pool has plenty of defense, it is just applied in turns at the table.
 
I was thinking more like some TV celebs,like Jordan playing golf(not that golf needed him),someone that can play at a decent speed and can re-introduce it to the masses.Just a few that come to mind: 1) Will Smith
2) Nickolas Cage
3) Danica Patrick
4) Jack Nicholson
5) Colin Ferrel
6) Samuel L. Jackson
.....ok. granted I'm just trying to put some names out there,I'm not a hollywood public relations expert or a spin doctor.Hope this kinda gets the old creative juices flowing!!:p
 
Kevin Trudeau was the last ambassador, the only thing he had was money.

What is missing is a rich person that can burn through cash like KT because big risk is big reward. No one can take big risks like he did but I blame the economy for whittling down the few that can take the risk.
 
If a picture is worth a thousand words, the picture below speaks volumes about the structure of pool’s popular games. His opponent is at the table scoring points. His predicament is unlike anything that exists in the sports world.

If he was a baseball player, he would be trying to throw strikes and trying to catch the ball.

If he was a basketball player, he would be trying and steal the ball and trying to block shots.

If he was a golfer, he would be playing and scoring,

If he was a football player, he would be trying to tackle players, and trying to strip and intercept the ball.

If he was a boxer, he would be blocking punches.

If he was a bowler, he would be rolling the ball and scoring.

If he was a swimmer, he would be in the pool swimming a 100 meters.

If he was a hockey player, he would be trying to block and steal the puck.

If he was a tennis player, he would be trying to smash or drop the ball.

If he was a fisherman, he would be fishing.

Look at each and every sport!

He is none of the above. He is a pool player, watching his opponent score point after point, while he sits in a chair and there is not a damn thing he can do about it. He is disconnected and disengaged. He waits for his chance. Please name for me a successful sport that has this structure.
 

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Fatal Flaw

Way back when....in golf, you were allowed to leave your ball on the green IN THE WAY (stymied) of the opponents line to the hole~! Sometimes the shooter would have to chip his ball up and over the opponents toward the hole. F.Y.I.


subdude1974 said:
True, no defense in golf. But no matter how many birdies and eagles you make or how many shots in a row you hit pure, your opponent is playing as well. He doesnt sit until you hit one in the bunker on the 18th hole. There is only one similarity between pool and golf. It is all about controling a little white ball. That is all.
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Paul Schofield said:
Look at each and every sport!

He is none of the above. He is a pool player, watching his opponent score point after point, while he sits in a chair and there is not a damn thing he can do about it. He is disconnected and disengaged. He waits for his chance. Please name for me a successful sport that has this structure.
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Okay Paul, I am going to name you a VERY SUCCESSFUL sport that has that structure. Listen closely, I'm getting tired of repeating it. That sport would be ....POOL!!! More people worldwide engage in this sport than ANY OTHER participation sport there is. I believe that qualifies it as a successful sport. Just because the world of pool is not rotating around the sun on the orbit YOU want it to does not make pool unsuccessful. Get over it for crying out loud. All the b*tching and no solutions. Even if you could come up with a solution the pool community would probably not accept it. But.....why fix it if it ain't really broke???

I'm going to pull a John Barton maneuver and say that this is the last post I am going to make on this thread. It's kinda like trying to reason with a 4-year-old why he can't have a some of candy 20 minutes before lunch time.

Good luck to you sir in your quest to change pool. It WILL change, as it has through the many generations of its existence, but the change as always be be slow and gradual.

Once again, pool in its current structure is a UNIQUE and worthy sport. I have nothing more to ask from it. It doesn't HAVE to have a "defensive" side to it.

Once again.....just my $.02 worth!!!

Maniac
 
So, what, you want the guy to be shooting spit balls at the other player while shooting?

That is the point of pool. To punish you if you are not good enough to stay at the table. It is a tough game, not for the faint of heart. But it is this toughnest that makes it great. This truly reflects life....life ain't always fair.

Trying to compare pool to other types of games does pool a dis-service. Pool is pool and not like anything else.
 
Maniac said:
Okay Paul, I am going to name you a VERY SUCCESSFUL sport that has that structure. Listen closely, I'm getting tired of repeating it. That sport would be ....POOL!!! More people worldwide engage in this sport than ANY OTHER participation sport there is. I believe that qualifies it as a successful sport. Just because the world of pool is not rotating around the sun on the orbit YOU want it to does not make pool unsuccessful. Get over it for crying out loud. All the b*tching and no solutions. Even if you could come up with a solution the pool community would probably not accept it. But.....why fix it if it ain't really broke???

I'm going to pull a John Barton maneuver and say that this is the last post I am going to make on this thread. It's kinda like trying to reason with a 4-year-old why he can't have a some of candy 20 minutes before lunch time.

Good luck to you sir in your quest to change pool. It WILL change, as it has through the many generations of its existence, but the change as always be be slow and gradual.

Once again, pool in its current structure is a UNIQUE and worthy sport. I have nothing more to ask from it. It doesn't HAVE to have a "defensive" side to it.

Once again.....just my $.02 worth!!!

Maniac
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I agree. 8-ball is the most played game in the world. Leagues are doing well, amateurs are doing well, pros not so good (they have trouble making a living out of it, which isn't neccessarily pool's fault). I still can't figure out why pros aren't playing the game the whole world relates to.
 
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