Stealing information?

Was there a foul?

  • Foul

    Votes: 54 52.9%

  • No Foul

    Votes: 48 47.1%
  • Total voters
    102
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chefjeff said:
There is a 1/2 hour video where the author explains his position. Also, do a search on that site for "Kinsella ip" for a list of articles about this issue.
Jeff Livingston
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This is the "position" of one man. There are many other men/women with differing positions. Did you notice the word "theory" in the link you gave?

The only concern I would have is in what the WRITTEN LAW states concerning any matter where law has to be brought into it. That is what the courts MUST go by.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
This is the "position" of one man. There are many other men/women with differing positions. Did you notice the word "theory" in the link you gave?

The only concern I would have is in what the WRITTEN LAW states concerning any matter where law has to be brought into it. That is what the courts MUST go by.

Maniac
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What if written law says you can molest children....still with written law as prime?

The arguments are just coming out concerning IP. If you have some say on it, let's have it so this issue can be put to the intellectual test, so to speak.

I guess you could say this is an idea whose time has come.

Jeff Livingston
 
I have invented an amazing and new aiming system called DAM that will revolutionize pool playing all around the world. You won't find DAM in any books, because it has just been recently invented. But rest assured ... all future pool books will present DAM in its full glory. DAM is the best and most complete aiming system, that also contributes to correct body alignment, that has ever been devised. Most of the pros use it, especially the Filipino players ... that's why they are so good. DAM works on every shot, regardless of the distance between the balls, or the angle and distance to the pocket. The best thing about DAM is you don't even need to know or see where the pocket is. Just align and pivot, and the ball just goes in the hole. When a good player uses the system, it is impossible to tell ... it will just look like they are naturally pocketing balls. That's when you know they are using DAM!

Try to prove that DAM doesn't work ... you can't, because it does work. If you can't make it work, it is because you really don't understand it. If you ask a pro if he or she uses DAM, and he or she says he or she doesn't, it is because he or she doesn't want you to know his or her secrets. The DAM system will radically improve the shot-making abilities of those who spend the time to learn it. DAM will eventually become the "aiming standard" and will significantly accelerate your learning curve. There are those who will eventually learn the system, and there are those who will not, and be beaten by those who do. If you don't think DAM works, it is because you haven't had personalized lessons with somebody who truly understands it. I make almost every shot with this system ... I rarely miss. Isn't that proof of how good it is? Don't you want to be as good as me? If you want to master the DAM system, you must visit me in person and pay outrageous sums of money to learn all of the required intricacies.

It only takes two days to learn DAM, and if you practice it for two months, you will start winning tournaments. If you can't make it work, it is because you don't have enough "visual intelligence," in which case you are hopeless. Don't ask me to describe the system in words or with diagrams, because this can't be done; although, I do have lots of fancy words and phrases to describe various parts of the system ... aren't you impressed? If you don't believe in my system or if you doubt the validity of my approach, you will be banished by all of my followers.

The above was taken from Dr. Dave's website. It's a clear knock on CTE and his "visual intelligence" reference is a clear knock on Stan (as "visual intelligence" is one of his commonly used terms).

Then, Dr. Dave says DAM is a knock on the snake-oil claims made by CTE proponents.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=154530&highlight=snakeoil+salesmen&page=6


Stan's obviously a CTE proponent and Dr. Dave already associated DAM to some of Stan's terms. If he hasn't overtly called Stan a snake-oil salesman, he's done a great job implying such. His Nov08 BD article was a clear knock on Stan and CTE.

A snake-oil salesman to me is a guy claiming to be a pool expert when he clearly can't play at above a C level.

Heck, I might as well start a golf instruction website and drive traffic to that from all the golf forums. I can't break 100 to save my life, but what the hey-- none of that really matters.

Dr. Dave should apologize to Stan for his lack of professionalism in posting his materials without permission and for his back-handed snake-oil comments. The IRONIC thing is: the snake-oil claims he makes in his DAM copy can all be backed up.
 
Anyone ever considered that because of what was read on Dr. Daves site actually CAUSED some poeple to buy the DVD?

Or better yet saved some people money on something that would not have helped them?

Good grief..............

You CTE guys need to grow up and stop the acting like silly, little elementary kids.
 
Would it be wrong for Dr. Dave to post the descriptions (how-to's) for the shots that someone might have in an instructional video, use Power 1-Pocket for example. It only contains shots, they aren't protected by any copyright or patent.

I think it's a matter of professional courtesy.
 
Blackjack said:
Joe,

What if somebody clearly interfere's with the author's ability to profit from their copyrighted work?
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An interesting idea that I am sure the copyright attorneys have worked with as a seperate issue from infringement. I am not a lawyer but I would suppose it would be a legal argument over what consituted interference. Perhaps one of the attorneys could tel us what issues would need to be addressed.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
IDr. Dave should apologize to Stan for his lack of professionalism in posting his materials without permission and for his back-handed snake-oil comments. The IRONIC thing is: the snake-oil claims he makes in his DAM copy can all be backed up.
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As a retired academic (distinguished professor of research) and one who has been "professionally" involved in these issues, I am of the opinion that Dave acted in the highest tradition and the spirit of academic freedom and its respect for the works of others.

So that would be an academic colleague who very much supports Dr Dave's actions.
 
duckie said:
Anyone ever considered that because of what was read on Dr. Daves site actually CAUSED some poeple to buy the DVD?
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Does Dave provide a link to where the reader can purchase the DVD?

duckie said:
Or better yet saved some people money on something that would not have helped them?
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Does Dave provide a review of the material, or does he just provide the information contained within the DVD for free on his web page?

Are Dave's intentions to help people save money because the information is bad, or is Dave's intention to step in and provide Stan's information for free to other's because it is worthwhile?

Does Dave have permission from Stan to reissue the information from the ProOne DVD?

duckie said:
Good grief..............

You CTE guys need to grow up and stop the acting like silly, little elementary kids.
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I'm not one of the CTE guys, but I know the answers to the questions I just asked.
 
JoeW said:
An interesting idea that I am sure the copyright attorneys have worked with as a seperate issue from infringement. I am not lawyer but I would suppose it would be a legal argument over what consituted interference. Perhaps one of the attorneys could tel us what issues would need to be addressed.
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Joe,

I think its pretty clear. We can cry "academic freedom" until the cows come home, but his "academic freedom" and his hollow respect (i'll call it what it is and make no apologies for it) ends when he infringes upon the rights of another.

It's that simple.
 
I voted foul simply because I believe Dr. Dave should have requested permission from Stan before publishing anything about CTE/Pro One on his website.

It would have been the prudent and morale way to address the question of posting Stan's information or re-stylizing Stan's information.

It doesn't have anything to do with lack of profits, profits or lack of need to justify legal requirements. It just would have been the right thing to do.

The consensus of opinion seems to be leaning toward FOUL but even if the numbers leaned the other way, it wouldn't sway my opinion.

LET ME ASK all of you THIS QUESTION:

Why do YOU think Dr. Dave didn't ask Stan's permission to post the CTE/Pro One information on his website?

JoeyA
 
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JoeyA said:
LET ME ASK all of you THIS QUESTION:

Why do YOU think Dr. Dave didn't ask Stan's permission to post the CTE/Pro One information on his website?

JoeyA
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Two reasons -

Reason #1 - Dave does whatever he wants. If somebody calls foul, he plays this game of "I'm socially ignorant therefore I am innocent"...

Reason #2 - Dave knew Stan would have said no. So, Dave bypassed all of that and did what he always does. Now he's playing the game of "I didn't slap you in the face, I was just swatting a fly."

I said this a few years ago on another forum... I can't believe that a guy with a PhD wants me to believe that he's too stupid to know the difference between right and wrong. He knows.
 
I voted no foul...

I only voted no foul, because there is no way to know that anything is truly new knowledge or hasn't been gleaned individually by the person who posted it separate from the DVD.

Hell it could've been know 40 years ago and someone just thought to post it. I know there are things that I have discovered only to find out it had been in old books for decades...

Jaden
 
This should have nothing to do with what is right/wrong, and everything to do with professional curtesy. If Stan doesn't like something Dave put on his site about his system, just change it or remove it. They are both professional people, I'm sure they can work this out.
 
I don't really care about the legal aspects of this issue. That could only be determined in a court of law. I simply want to know if Dave's actions demonstrated the proper level of professionalism among instructors that we should expect. Did Dave's actions represent to you what is right and honorable? There is a simple way for each person to answer these questions. Would you feel good and happy with Dave if he had done the same thing to you? I know I would not but that's just my feelings. Why he did not at least call is something I could never understand.
 
Murdoch7627 said:
Would you feel good and happy with Dave if he had done the same thing to you?
I simply would not have cared one way or the other. Why? Because I am the type of person who freely shares any and all knowledge I have on ANY subject with anyone who is willing to listen. I feel good knowing that at times I have helped others to improve at something they wish to improve on and that I do it with zero expectations of financial benefits for doing so. If I have ever came up with something on my own I would not seek monetary restitution for sharing it with others. We as human beings are obviously not all of the same mindset. Each to his own.

I'll leave this one for the lawyers to sort out if the parties involved wish to take it that far.


Maniac
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Murdoch7627 said:
So more than 200 but less than 769 posts is where "value in one's words" begins, huh?
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I don't tell people "take it to the bank". Honestly if you want to lend any credibility to your words, especially when choosing to use words like those, you better have a good reputation. My $0.02
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Zero?!? Why would anyone put value in your words. You have less then 200 posts and been here less than a year.
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Wow. What a stupid comment. Someone's seniority on an internet forum is THE deciding factor in whether or not their opinion matters. I laughed just typing that. I haven't been on this site long at all either. You think I can't beat you at pool? Wanna bet? Maybe he's a patent attorney. But what would that matter, what with his lack of posts and all.
 
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