Same here, it's interesting to have a discussion and hear what others are thinking.
Happy Holidays. .
Two foul,push out 9 ball.
- Thread starter richiebalto
- Start date
Same here, it's interesting to have a discussion and hear what others are thinking.
Happy Holidays. .
True BS sessions are in the CTE threads. . I think there ought to be 2 sets of rules(why not) to appease the total pool population.
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Richie, I find it a little funny that you came up with this thread. The reason I say this is because I watched another Richie, I suppose, play Jimmy Wetch a rather unusual 9 ball match at Starchers in Akron about 25 years ago. You wouldn't by any chance be Richie Ambrose, would you? Just curious, I'll tell the story after you respond to my question.
9 ball
y'all getting lost in this 9 ball rule thing. to answer someones ? about how do you play 2mbih, or push out, in a ring game, the answer is you dont. in fact in 9 ball you dont play either. you play to hit and if the result is such that the shooter didnt make a legal hit on the OB then the incoming player has the option to take the shot or make the shooter shoot again. this goes on and on until the shooter makes a legal hit or the incoming player takes the shot. this doesn't eliminate safety play b/c shooting a safety is intentionally making a legal hit and leaving the other player tough.
scenario: i shoot safe hooking my opponent. since it was a good hit the other player must take the shot. now they make an honest kick at the ball and miss but leave the cue on the far rail with only half the OB visible but quite possible to make a hard cut to the corner. i have the option to take this shot or make the person shoot again. if i decide to take the shot i can either play safe again or go for the cut shot. so i pass and let the other player shoot again. they make a bad hit and leave a hook shot with no chance of hitting the O B. i pass again, let them shoot. this time they make a legal hit and actually hook me. i have no option here i must play to hit. at no time does ball in hand come to play except on a scratch where the ball in hand is in the kitchen. also say i scratch and make a ball. that ball is spotted. in years gone by we always asked the opponent do you want to spot all balls or just the ball before the money ball this is what gave rise to so many players practicing spot shots. sorry for the length, but the variations regionally and over the decades have blurred real talent in all pool games. TE is not for me, but am forced to play it these days as most others dont understand rules of a by gone era. gerald
y'all getting lost in this 9 ball rule thing. to answer someones ? about how do you play 2mbih, or push out, in a ring game, the answer is you dont. in fact in 9 ball you dont play either. you play to hit and if the result is such that the shooter didnt make a legal hit on the OB then the incoming player has the option to take the shot or make the shooter shoot again. this goes on and on until the shooter makes a legal hit or the incoming player takes the shot. this doesn't eliminate safety play b/c shooting a safety is intentionally making a legal hit and leaving the other player tough.
scenario: i shoot safe hooking my opponent. since it was a good hit the other player must take the shot. now they make an honest kick at the ball and miss but leave the cue on the far rail with only half the OB visible but quite possible to make a hard cut to the corner. i have the option to take this shot or make the person shoot again. if i decide to take the shot i can either play safe again or go for the cut shot. so i pass and let the other player shoot again. they make a bad hit and leave a hook shot with no chance of hitting the O B. i pass again, let them shoot. this time they make a legal hit and actually hook me. i have no option here i must play to hit. at no time does ball in hand come to play except on a scratch where the ball in hand is in the kitchen. also say i scratch and make a ball. that ball is spotted. in years gone by we always asked the opponent do you want to spot all balls or just the ball before the money ball this is what gave rise to so many players practicing spot shots. sorry for the length, but the variations regionally and over the decades have blurred real talent in all pool games. TE is not for me, but am forced to play it these days as most others dont understand rules of a by gone era. gerald
What you've described is called 'shoot to hit the ball' with an honest effort stipulation. 2 shot rollout out has its own stipulations that makes it unique from the honest effort rule.
Aw come on, John have an opinion!!!!!
Lewis, I'm just as old school as you are. Times & things just change and not always for the better.
Yes, I miss John also...randyg
I think maybe three sets of rules would be better.
Look at bar table 8-ball, every bar has it's own rules.
SPF=randyg
There are millions of people who eat hotdogs everyday, but only a miniscule amount of them are professional competitors. Everyone eats a hotdog the way they like to, in a different way with different condiments. The same can be said for the pool world. Leaving it at that is best. IMO The mindset of standardizing the entire pool world and the bars that it's played in, is akin to a science-fiction novel. That's what makes the pool world unique and what it is. It seems that the 'powers that be' are trying to corral the mindset of the entire pool population with its rules. Is it all about the $ and trying to take advantage of every poolplayer in existence?. .
canwin,
Ok.. I see your point, but let me ask you 2 questions, when gambling;
1. if you could make a game by agreeing to a rule you don't like, would you?
2. would you make your opponent agree to a rule he didn't like? if the spot was juicy?
See, money does make the game. According to you, it is a Gentlemen's agreement about what rules to play by and what rule NOT to enforce.
the rest of the pool world will do OK making their rules fit as much as possible to get all the $$$ they can get from Sponsors. Maybe, eventually, even $$$ from broadcast rights.
I don't see how rule changes in tournaments/leagues hurt your game, unless you are finding it more difficult to match up with the players that want to use a certain set of rules.
BTW, we are eating Hamburgers now, lots more condiments to throw into the mix.
And, BTW, the rules are getting more and more standardized across the board. It is the way it is. It is going to happen eventually.
Maybe we will be eating steak by then.
Ok.. I see your point, but let me ask you 2 questions, when gambling;
1. if you could make a game by agreeing to a rule you don't like, would you?
2. would you make your opponent agree to a rule he didn't like? if the spot was juicy?
See, money does make the game. According to you, it is a Gentlemen's agreement about what rules to play by and what rule NOT to enforce.
the rest of the pool world will do OK making their rules fit as much as possible to get all the $$$ they can get from Sponsors. Maybe, eventually, even $$$ from broadcast rights.
I don't see how rule changes in tournaments/leagues hurt your game, unless you are finding it more difficult to match up with the players that want to use a certain set of rules.
BTW, we are eating Hamburgers now, lots more condiments to throw into the mix.
And, BTW, the rules are getting more and more standardized across the board. It is the way it is. It is going to happen eventually.
Maybe we will be eating steak by then.
1. Yes, it depends on how I assess the situation. I won't play loud, drama kings and duck artists no matter what. That's the gentleman thing I'm talking about. 2. No, Whatever the spot or stipulations, it all comes down to an agreement before you start playing. If you match up, you match up, if you don't, you don't. The only time a man will agree to do something he doesn't like, is if he thinks he can win. That's the catch.. that's the game. You'll always know the weaker player or someone who's just messing with your head by the number of and context of safties they play when they're faced with an open shot.
Money does make the game, true dat, but so does free choice in choosing to play or not and who you play with. Not everything in life can be defined by just rules, but, it can be defined by ones behavior. Forget the word gentleman and just concentrate on knowing how to act like you would in real life in order to succeed. IMO, the Mosconi cup is a contrived dog and pony show that the average joe public would see right through. You call jumping up and yelling everytime someone makes a shot, crying and all the other contrived antics(for lack of better word) is going to fly. Bet me. .
I'll answer the rest, I just want to send this first.
IMO,TV broadcast taint gonna happen. No ratings and never will be(in the US). Too boring, unexciting, and doesn't have the extreme sports/game appeal that you must compete with today(too safe). If so, it would have happened already. Organizers of events are the only ones who'll make any $. (hotel cut,quarters,dollars,etc.) The rules hurt my game and I'll give you an analogy of why. The best player in a golf game always fades safes 2 players before he shoots! You don't have to earn a shot by making one, you can just duck for any reason your mind can rationalize.. which is something I've chosen not to play. That certain set of rules, lack of $ in the game, my not wanting a backer, plus too much expense to attend.
I'll end with(wait for it). .you didn't put IMO before BTW .
Canwin. .you know, that Devil's Advocate guy. There's always one. .
Wounded pool player? . .can I get alittle more than that
Sure! An old timer (like me) who respects the heritage of the game and just doesn't like change BUT knows its inevitable.
SPF=randyg
I can't argue with your opinions here. You are correct about the $$$ and TV ... this 'taint gonna happen', not in our life time anyways. With all the $$$ being put into these stupid 'reality' shows on TV some of it might end up in a low budget Pool show... you never know..
Change is always gonna happen, you know that. I can't think of anything that has stayed the same since I was a young man. In the pool rooms, change is slower, but there still is change. It it all around us. We either adapt to the change or get run over by it. I've been run over by it and now I would rather adapt.
Oh, BTW all my posts have a signature. Please click on my name and then select 'view public profile' and it will display that;
Just remember all posts are, of course... In My Humble Opinion
Well....It aint TV but It's PoolActionTV!!!
$6,000 added 2 foul push out!!
Check out the Country Calvin Classic LIVE on PoolActionTV June 24,25,26.
There will be lots of offense and strategy from some legendary "old school" players with a mix of young players hungry for some skillful strategery (is that a word? :shocked
.
Ray
Rules
1. A player has the option to pushout at anytime during the game, upon a pushout the opponent may take the shot or pass, if the shot is passed back to the shooter and the shooter makes a foul, ( bad hit, no rail after contact, or scratch ) it is ball in hand to the opponent.
2. Scratched balls & jumped balls off the table, shooter plays the shot from behind the headstring (except balls pocketed on the break, they stay down). The only balls spotted are the ball before the 9 , and ball behind the line on a scratch, or a jumped ball.
3. If the breaker scratches and the next numerical ball is behind the headstring line ( in the kitchen ) it is spotted, incoming player may pass or take the shot.
4. All balls are deemed behind the headstring ( or in the kitchen ) by the base of the ball, from headstring line.
5. Ball made before the money ball ( 9-Ball ) on a scratch will be spotted and shot from behind the headstring. (Spot Shot )
6. Any fouled or pushed shot may be passed or taken by incoming player.
7. Cue Ball Fouls Only, if you move or touch a ball by any means other than the tip of your cuestick , your opponent may move the ball or balls back to original position or leave the remaining layout to the shooter.
8. You may not get up on the table to shoot a shot.
9. A 30 or 45 second shot clock maybe ask for if a player is deemed playing slow by his opponent., up to TD
$6,000 added 2 foul push out!!
Check out the Country Calvin Classic LIVE on PoolActionTV June 24,25,26.
There will be lots of offense and strategy from some legendary "old school" players with a mix of young players hungry for some skillful strategery (is that a word? :shocked
.Ray
Rules
1. A player has the option to pushout at anytime during the game, upon a pushout the opponent may take the shot or pass, if the shot is passed back to the shooter and the shooter makes a foul, ( bad hit, no rail after contact, or scratch ) it is ball in hand to the opponent.
2. Scratched balls & jumped balls off the table, shooter plays the shot from behind the headstring (except balls pocketed on the break, they stay down). The only balls spotted are the ball before the 9 , and ball behind the line on a scratch, or a jumped ball.
3. If the breaker scratches and the next numerical ball is behind the headstring line ( in the kitchen ) it is spotted, incoming player may pass or take the shot.
4. All balls are deemed behind the headstring ( or in the kitchen ) by the base of the ball, from headstring line.
5. Ball made before the money ball ( 9-Ball ) on a scratch will be spotted and shot from behind the headstring. (Spot Shot )
6. Any fouled or pushed shot may be passed or taken by incoming player.
7. Cue Ball Fouls Only, if you move or touch a ball by any means other than the tip of your cuestick , your opponent may move the ball or balls back to original position or leave the remaining layout to the shooter.
8. You may not get up on the table to shoot a shot.
9. A 30 or 45 second shot clock maybe ask for if a player is deemed playing slow by his opponent., up to TD
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Well....It aint TV but It's PoolActionTV!!!
$6,000 added 2 foul push out!!
Check out the Country Calvin Classic LIVE on PoolActionTV June 24,25,26.
Ther will be lots of offense and strategy from some legendary "old school" players with a mix of young players hungry for some skillful strategery (is that a word? :shocked
Ray
Rules
1. A player has the option to pushout at anytime during the game, upon a pushout the opponent may take the shot or pass, if the shot is passed back to the shooter and the shooter makes a foul, ( bad hit, no rail after contact, or scratch ) it is ball in hand to the opponent.
2. Scratched balls & jumped balls off the table, shooter plays the shot from behind the headstring (except balls pocketed on the break, they stay down). The only balls spotted are the ball before the 9 , and ball behind the line on a scratch, or a jumped ball.
3. If the breaker scratches and the next numerical ball is behind the headstring line ( in the kitchen ) it is spotted, incoming player may pass or take the shot.
4. All balls are deemed behind the headstring ( or in the kitchen ) by the base of the ball, from headstring line.
5. Ball made before the money ball ( 9-Ball ) on a scratch will be spotted and shot from behind the headstring. (Spot Shot )
6. Any fouled or pushed shot may be passed or taken by incoming player.
7. Cue Ball Fouls Only, if you move or touch a ball by any means other than the tip of your cuestick , your opponent may move the ball or balls back to original position or leave the remaining layout to the shooter.
8. You may not get up on the table to shoot a shot.
9. A 30 or 45 second shot clock maybe ask for if a player is deemed playing slow by his opponent., up to TD
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Ray, this sounds like a real interesting event. Please post a notice closer to the date (or if you can remember, shoot me a PM) - don't want to miss it. :thumbup:
Quick question just to be clear - If a player can push-out at anytime (rule #1), can a player respond to a push-out with a push-out of his own?
Thanks.
Since we will be playing on Bar Boxes, the only balls spotted up will be balls knocked off the table, the ball before the money ball or next ball in the kitchen on a scratch.
There were still a few question that I had myself as to how different people played.
One was the ability to roll out after a roll out as asked above. It seems that since the rollout is considered one foul that if the incoming player is not on one that he COULD return with a roll out.
Maybe some old schoolers can chime in here.
Ray